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Hand size

Started by Sandra90, September 25, 2009, 08:25:44 PM

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Sandra90

Hi girls! I'm new here and i'd like to ask you a question.
I have quite small hands, average lenght but really narrow, pretty much on the female side, as well as small wrists, narrow shoulders, small bones overall.
I always wonder if there's a correlation between my body(especially hands) and my sexual identity.I don't know any mtf because i haven't trasitioned yet, and haven't even came out, so i cannot compare my hands with any tgirl directly.
For that reason i watched some videos(yes those videos ::) ;D) on the internet and it seems like those "->-bleeped-<-s" always have smaller hands then their male partner.
My hands are 7.5 inches long and just a bit more than 3 inches wide across the palm.What about yours?
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Janet_Girl

Mine is 7.5" long and 3.5" wide.  But my arms are thin and so is my wrists.  But with long nails, they appear longer.

Janet
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Myself

The hand size is not related to GID at all.

The average length of an adult male hand is 189 mm, while the average length of an adult female hand is 172 mm. The average hand breadth for adult males and females is 84 and 74 mm respectively

While mine are pretty much almost perfectly on the average female mark, I have seen people with LONG hands, then again they were taller than me and I seen regular females with HUGE hands, my grandmother has hands bigger than mine for example!

So did both of the cosmetician I worked with and my cousin from Holland! (but she has shoes one or two sizes smaller! tsk tsk)


HOWEVER, There is somewhat relation with the index and ring finger ratio, sometimes, but very much debated.

Sometimes the cause of trans is a too long androgen receptor gene, meanings, androgens have less effect on the body.
Another cause is not much of androgens while in the womb.
These two causes are two possible reasons, I think it's quite widely accepted among scientists that there may be more.

How this affects Index-Ring fingers ratio?
It had been researched that the more testosterone (or testosterone sensitivity) in the womb, the longer the ring finger turns out! this is why there is different digit ratio between most males and females.

This also predicts *MAY* behavior, as the testosterone *MAY* affect the masculinity of the brain,
It had been shown in a study that people with longer ring finger are more likely to be athletes, while longer index finger.. not so much.
If I remember correctly *this is strictly from memory*, it might also be related in a way to math skills. Long ring finger was related with better math skills.

Many of those results vary a lot with culture, environment, study habits etc..


A study found longer index finger is related with attraction to men, they concluded it doesn't show the person is gay, rather it shows a tendancy to be attracted to men, again this is probably mostly because of environment, culture, social norms etc.
They found that a high percentage of gay people had this finger ratio.

On the contrary, It was said males from Denmark used to have longer index fingers.
There is a criticism of that study - claiming they took drawing of the hands and measures from the drawing rather than the crest to the tip - if I remember properly.
This can produce false results.

So it seems there might be in actual relationship with this, but some studies suggest overlaps related to where you live or your genes, if the study about the males from Denmark was done properly, and we are pretty sure not most Danish are gay, it might be yet again just like the carrying angle of the arms which overlaps between the genders greatly.

So far, pretty much most guys if not all guys I tested for my own amusement had longer ring fingers, including my 2 brothers.

Oh! and I almost forgot, it seems that third childs have tendency  to have longer index fingers, seems that there is almost always a bit less testosterone in the womb when it comes to that, but not always that much less.

In conclusion, I'd say stop looking for signs that make you more girly or manly, most of them are produced with the introduction of sex hormones or overlap too much.

The only major differences are the brain, the major sexual organs (uterus, womb, ovaries, vagina, penis, testicles), and later are the hip bones which grow with estrogen.
Male hormones do NOT affect skeletal structure, might affect a bit of the thickness although it is still unknown and might not at all!

In fact, in identifying of corpses, the only REALLY big indicator is the hip bones, which are developed with estrogen - probably if teh growth plates have not been sealed yet. If I remember correctly there are two (may be more) other tests, which are long bones and mandibles, but as I recall they overlap a lot and it's just that they may give a better idea of what it may was.

How tall you are and these kind of stuff are related to when your growth plate close, this is done by the estrogen hormone, females usually start puberty earlier and have more estrogen than males, therefore they are usually smaller.

In our times it is no longer completely true, many girls I have seen are much taller than I am. looking at the previous generation, women were short and usually had quite huge hips.

Then again it's hard to find a guy at my height too, 5'4-1/2 (I think.. I use metrics, that's 164)

A lot of hormones in our foods and drinks, smoking, alcohol habits and even obesity all seem to alter our growth now.

There is still indeed average height differences between the genders but it's no longer that hard to find women nearing 180cm tall.



What is  important if you are going through HRT is the face, or a facial feminization surgery if needed, the voice - make it sound female, not to speak like a female like many suggest with breathiness, melody, bla bla bla - I heard people do that and it makes them sound more gay than female - make it sound like a female by pitch and resonance, and then speak in a feminine manner (although honestly, it won't matter if you get the other two right, you should see how some girls speak, it's worse than guys!), of course getting rid of facial hair also helps.

Even if you are flat but have a female face, people would see a person as female.

Hope it helped somehow

Edit: in relation to corpse identification I mentioned - there are some corpses yet with no recognized gender - just shows how clueless the skeleton might leave us.
The average hand sizes given are probably old and incorrect by about a decade if not two.
Although still seems to be somewhat correct for females, the male hands seems to have grown a lot bigger than the averages given there.
Many females have bigger hands than the averages given there it seems though not much bigger, yet many still have really small hands.
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Hannah

Quotebut very much debated

There has to be some award for the understatement of the month :D

Remember we're talking about tiny differences. 10mm is about the length of the word "there" depending on your screen. Good nails and the musculature changes from hrt prolly account for more of the look of those movie star's hands than anything.
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Myself

I tried to find some new statistics, seems the new averages would be like 180mm for girls and nearing 200mm for guys although I could be wrong.

I found this poll in the web which quite a bit of people answered, but since it's people answers and measurements some might take a bit off their measurements or add a bit, but it should show somewhat.

http://www.misterpoll.com/polls/178943/results

The reason I am posting this is actually not really for the statistics, more like the end question "Do you think your hands are big?" which seems to be about 50-50 yes/no, I wonder what it means?



Post Merge: September 26, 2009, 02:43:55 AM

http://backseatcuddler.com/2008/08/15/kate-beckinsale-thinks-she-has-big-transsexual-hands/

http://prettyhands.wordpress.com/2008/05/28/kate-beckinsale/

Celebs aren't that perfect either!

Angelina jolie is also said to have big hands and size 10 shoe size, people are actually talking about those stuff, yet still love her, what does it show us?

I am almost willing to bet that if we do 2 averages, one in the ftm and one in the mtf forums, we will find that the difference is about 11 +- 4 mm on average, perhaps less.
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Sandra90

Quote from: Myself on September 26, 2009, 01:38:28 AM
The hand size is not related to GID at all.

The average length of an adult male hand is 189 mm, while the average length of an adult female hand is 172 mm. The average hand breadth for adult males and females is 84 and 74 mm respectively

While mine are pretty much almost perfectly on the average female mark, I have seen people with LONG hands, then again they were taller than me and I seen regular females with HUGE hands, my grandmother has hands bigger than mine for example!

So did both of the cosmetician I worked with and my cousin from Holland! (but she has shoes one or two sizes smaller! tsk tsk)



mmm, so you're saying there's no correlation between gid and hand size, but you do have small female-like hands?
The fact that there are women with bigger hands than yours, it may mean you have small hands , not that they have huge hands.
Pretty much all my male friends have wider hands than mine, and most girls have hands like mine, some of them have
bigger hands but not huge in terms of thickness and width, and defenately not as big as average men. I wouldn't know, what you said just seems to confirm in some way my thoughts.
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sd

Quote from: Sandra90 on September 27, 2009, 02:08:26 PM
mmm, so you're saying there's no correlation between gid and hand size, but you do have small female-like hands?
The fact that there are women with bigger hands than yours, it may mean you have small hands , not that they have huge hands.
Pretty much all my male friends have wider hands than mine, and most girls have hands like mine, some of them have
bigger hands but not huge in terms of thickness and width, and defenately not as big as average men. I wouldn't know, what you said just seems to confirm in some way my thoughts.

From a medical standpoint, no.

However the medical community has never taken the time to really study the ts community. While everyone gets a mix of male and female characteristics, it seems a few of us are more blessed than others. I tend to think that if one part of us gets altered by hormones in the womb (as one current TS theory goes) then why aren't other parts as well.

So yes you may have smaller hands, but it may not mean anything.
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Dana Lane

My hands are smaller than the average male so I am lucky in that aspect.  But my hand is a bit wider than a genetic females.  And the nails are a bit wider. How cool would it be if you could surgically feminize your hands? I imagine that would be a very difficult task.
============
Former TS Separatist who feels deep regret
http://www.transadvocate.com/category/dana-taylor
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Nero

From what I've seen, hand length seems to correspond more to height than gender. Men's tend to be wider though.
Nero was the Forum Admin here at Susan's Place for several years up to the time of his death.
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Myself

Quote from: Sandra90 on September 27, 2009, 02:08:26 PM
mmm, so you're saying there's no correlation between gid and hand size, but you do have small female-like hands?
The fact that there are women with bigger hands than yours, it may mean you have small hands , not that they have huge hands.
Pretty much all my male friends have wider hands than mine, and most girls have hands like mine, some of them have
bigger hands but not huge in terms of thickness and width, and defenately not as big as average men. I wouldn't know, what you said just seems to confirm in some way my thoughts.

I personally have quite small hands, maybe a bit above average females, but I met many trans with really big hands and I don';t think we will doubt them being female because of their hands.

Generally I am short, even compared to my brothers and father (I have 2 brothers, no sisters), I am about 164cm.

So it's more like luck or genetics rather than GID it seems.
My mom is short it might come from her.
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K8

My hands are long and fairly narrow, just as my body is.  My partner's hands were short and broad, just as her body was.  (She was Irish.  She claimed her hands were good for digging potatoes. :))

I compared my hands to a GG friend's.  She is about four inches shorter than me and small-boned.  We have almost the same size hands.  Still, I sometimes have trouble getting gloves to fit properly - men's or women's - because of the length of my fingers.

I think genetics play a larger part in hand size than being TS does.  JMHO. :)

- Kate
Life is a pilgrimage.
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childofwinter

My hands are 190mm/7.4in long from tip of middle finger to palm, and 100mm/3.9in wide.

As for the index/ring finger ratio, all four of those fingers on my hands are 78mm long, which means that my digit ratio is 1 on  each hand.
I have no concrete idea of my gender identity, but I believe I am an Androgyne.
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Asfsd4214

Quote from: Leslie Ann on September 27, 2009, 03:03:11 PM
I tend to think that if one part of us gets altered by hormones in the womb (as one current TS theory goes) then why aren't other parts as well.

Could be easily explained if the brain is more sensitive to hormone induced changes than other parts.

It's also likely related if there is an abnormal 2d:4d digit ratio among ts's.
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kytheragraves

I am 6'3". My 2d/4d are 83/82 on my left hand and 82/80 on my right hand.

My hands are 200mm from tip to palm and 97mm across.

I feel like my hands are gigantic, but I'm told they are in proportion with my body and not veiny. Sometimes I believe that, but my feet are another story (13WW).

Wherever I go, I'm asked if I play basketball. Height is the #1 conversation starter people use with me. Last year, a guy at the local CVS said he recognized me from the Villanova women's team and wouldn't believe me when I denied it.
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childofwinter

Quote from: gracie_kendall on October 19, 2009, 03:30:24 PM
I am 6'3". My 2d/4d are 83/82 on my left hand and 82/80 on my right hand.

My hands are 200mm from tip to palm and 97mm across.

I feel like my hands are gigantic, but I'm told they are in proportion with my body and not veiny. Sometimes I believe that, but my feet are another story (13WW).

Wherever I go, I'm asked if I play basketball. Height is the #1 conversation starter people use with me. Last year, a guy at the local CVS said he recognized me from the Villanova women's team and wouldn't believe me when I denied it.

I'm 5 foot 9, so your hands can't be that big if they're slightly different in length and width to mine.
I have no concrete idea of my gender identity, but I believe I am an Androgyne.
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kytheragraves

Quote from: childofwinter on October 19, 2009, 03:36:07 PM
I'm 5 foot 9, so your hands can't be that big if they're slightly different in length and width to mine.

I must be measuring wrong. They seem like hamhocks to me.
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juanita s

my hands are more like a basketball players hands, long finger and not so wide.
I always wanted to be a women.
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Naturally Blonde

Quote from: Sandra90 on September 25, 2009, 08:25:44 PM
Hi girls! I'm new here and i'd like to ask you a question.
I have quite small hands, average lenght but really narrow, pretty much on the female side, as well as small wrists, narrow shoulders, small bones overall.
I always wonder if there's a correlation between my body(especially hands) and my sexual identity.I don't know any mtf because i haven't trasitioned yet, and haven't even came out, so i cannot compare my hands with any tgirl directly.
For that reason i watched some videos(yes those videos ::) ;D) on the internet and it seems like those "->-bleeped-<-s" always have smaller hands then their male partner.
My hands are 7.5 inches long and just a bit more than 3 inches wide across the palm.What about yours?

I used to think that as well but it's not usually the case. I have small hands and feet compared to a man but I also know a male friend who also has small hands and feet and he has no desire to transition. I think it's just pot luck if you are transsexual and have small hands. Some trranssexuals have small hands, some transsexuals have big hands and the same applies to height and facial feature's which come in all shapes and sizes no matter what their orientation may be.
Living in the real world, not a fantasy
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CharleneT

I think it is more about the proportions of these things ( hand or arm length).  The actual numbers won't help much as there is a lot of overlap in the male/female sizes.
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Northern Jane

Egads! My hands are link bear-paws! LOL!
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