Gender Dissonance

[KYLYKaHYT]

Does anyone else here who identifies as non-binary or gender-fluid ever experience feelings of anxiety or discomfort related to having an ever-changing gender identity? Do you ever wish that your gender would just solidify and stay in one place for a change?

My partner swears that my gender changes along some sort of monthly cycle. Frankly though, I think I cycle through my genders much more frequently than that. And sometimes it seems weird and incongruous, even to me. For example, when I am at the height of the pink part of my cycle I'm all butterflies and rainbows and fuzzy puppies. I am calmer, and I prefer more sedate activities like cooking and gardening, spending quality time with my partner and pets and making music and art. I've noticed that I also physically pass as female better when I'm like this, no doubt because of my body language, or, as some people call it, "energy" seems more female. Most of all, I actually feel like a woman when I am in this mode. I actually like feeling this way the best, although it can get a bit syrupy at times.

Then there is what I would consider my masculine side. This is the part of me that likes to play with firearms and fireworks and all manner of high performance machines. I don't tend to perceive myself as being very feminine at all when I'm in this mode. I become more competitive, more confident, analytical, critical, and can be a bit of an insensitive prick. I can't pass worth a crap either, except at a distance. I'm just kind of a weird sissy-looking dude. I think it confuses other people almost as much as it confuses me. I also realize that I don't like this part of myself as much as my femme or gender-neutral states.

My *gender-neutral* state. My state of equilibrium. This is actually where I am at most of the time, and as one might guess, it lies between the aforementioned extremes. It also feels like the most natural place for me to be. I really don't like this part of myself as well as my girlie side, but gender-wise, I do recognize it as the most versatile and functional aspect of who I am.

Unfortunately, I don't get to choose which mode I'm going to be in on any given day. I am absolutely powerless over my shifting, drifting genders. They just come and go at will and whichever one has control at any given moment makes itself right at home. For the most part I am content to just ride it out, but sometimes I just wish it would stop - or at least slow down long enough for me to catch my breath.

At any rate, I was just wondering if anyone else has these kinds of thoughts, and if so, how you deal with them.

[Calistine]

Even though I identify as male I am rather gender fluid. I feel alot of anxiety towards this because it seems I can't make up my mind. In the end though I know Ill still be me. And you will too. Just dont let it affect the feelings of others around you.

[fluffy jorgen]

Very much so.
Sometimes I'm not sure I'm an androgyne anymore. I don't feel like anything.
I can't relate to anything and then I feel like me and everybody around me is trying to put me into a box. And I hate boxes.
I also can't tell which gender I'm going to be ,if any, the following day.

[Nicky]

I don't seem to fluctuate at all anymore. For me this solidification had come from self knowledge, self acceptance, free expression and support. All those added together have meant that I can be my core self and work out what that is. Everything stabalised and integrated if you will.

I suspect that this flux comes from being in a 'teenaged state'. you have extremes, experimentation, confusion, self doubt, exploration of self, finding your individualism. It is all about learning about yourself, sorting out who you are. Unfortunately for a lot of us transgenders we don't get much reflected back from society saying what we are is ok, it is like we operate in a vaccuum, we keep sending stuff out and not getting anything reflected back. We don't have similar people to feed off or confirm our identity around us so it can be hard to resolve this 'flux'.  That's what I think anyway. I think it will solidify in time if you get support, self acceptance, self knowledge and freedom of expression. This is why I think transgender peer groups are really important. This applies to all transgendered people, not just androgynes.

[KYLYKaHYT]

That's the problem, Nicky; it is my core self that stays in a state of flux.

I did the standard TS transition thing quite a few years ago, just to find out that female was nearly as ill-fitting as male had been. I do basically have support from those around me though. I have a very loving and accepting long-term partner, and good friends as well. They may not totally understand me, but they are quite supportive nonetheless. I don't censure myself as far as my expression goes. Like I said, people don't quite understand me, but they do tend to see me as a creative eccentric. Even though that's not entirely factually correct, it does give me a great deal of freedom and latitude when it comes to expression. You are correct in that I may still have some issues with self-acceptance though.

Ironically, I've gone to a few trans group meetings in the past, but found that I didn't fit in there at all and was kinda treated as an outsider - or a pseudo-->-bleeped-<-.

[Nicky]

I think it is particulalry hard for us in the grey - there is so much scope and not many role models or a social place. I was just speaking from my experience in that things did settle down. This may not be true for you.  I guess you will need to find a way to live comfortably within the flow. Do you think being more comfortable with all aspects of yourself is the key here, or is it finding some way to not need to express these sides of you?

I know what you mean about being seen as a psuedo-->-bleeped-<-. Because of this I decided to start up a small coffee club for non-binaries/gender queers and their supporters and families. My counsellor was really keen on the idea and knows a few people that would be interested in going. I was keen to create it because often people like us don't fit in with standard trans groups. I don't think there is a one size fits all in the trans world.

[KYLYKaHYT]

I think "being comfortable with all aspects of myself" might be the key here for me. Not expressing certain parts of myself, on the other hand, is simply out of the question. That's why a binary transition didn't work out for me.

A non-binary/genderqueer coffee club sounds like fun! I'd imagine it would attract a lot of interesting folks with a lot of interesting ideas. I'd love to do something like that, but I live in a very rural area where transfolks of any kind are relatively rare.
Post Merge: September 17, 2009, 07:29:29 PM

...I feel like me and everybody around me is trying to put me into a box. And I hate boxes.
I also can't tell which gender I'm going to be ,if any, the following day.

I hate boxes too.

And yeah, it's not that I don't like being gender fluid in some ways. In a perfect world I would be perfectly content constantly shifting genders, as I think it puts more colours on one's palette, so to speak.

Knowing that it'll change again tomorrow, however, especially at those times when it's inconvenient or seems contradictory on my part or when I'm just plain feeling good and getting used to where I'm currently at, well... that part gets kinda unsettling sometimes.

[fluffy jorgen]

Another thing, I don't like the anxiety and confusion my friends and relatives have to experience everyday. I also don't like being thought of as undescisive.

Or, some have accused me of not knowing what a man is, or what a woman is, physically. Pff.

What I do like is, indeed, the fact I can be a bit of everything and nothing at the same time and I like that I can adapt and empathise with everyone (relevant point: and thus understand why some of them think andryogyny weird.)



Nicky, perhaps so, to some individuals. But what about someone who already knows who they are in all other possible ways apart from their gender?

[KYLYKaHYT]

What I do like is, indeed, the fact I can be a bit of everything and nothing at the same time and I like that I can adapt and empathise with everyone (relevant point: and thus understand why some of them think andryogyny weird.)

My experience is somewhat different. I've never had anyone say that they thought my androgyny was weird, but I have had a number of friends and acquaintances who thought that they could relate to it. And on some points they almost get it. I think most people, in some ways and at some time in their lives, have - or do - transgress gender... or have at least considered it.

But then they conclude that transsexualism and androgyny must be one in the same; that all TS are a combination of genders, they just kinda pick-and-choose aspects, at which point I feel obligated to (try to) explain to them that I don't think that's true for most TS folks, and that I think most TS have a pretty solid gender identity - it's just opposite of the one they were assigned at birth. I think it's usually at this point that I start seeming a little weird to them.

[Nicky]

Nicky, perhaps so, to some individuals. But what about someone who already knows who they are in all other possible ways apart from their gender?[/center]

I would say they still have a significant chunk unsorted.

[KYLYKaHYT]

I would say they still have a significant chunk unsorted.

Doesn't everybody? 

[Nicky]

yeah, I guess 

[fluffy jorgen]

That's understandable. 'Cause nobody is a 100% anything. Just too bad, I haven't come across too many open people yet.

I would say they still have a significant chunk unsorted.

Then my question is: Do you think Gender makes up a person?

[Shana A]

That's the problem, Nicky; it is my core self that stays in a state of flux.

I did the standard TS transition thing quite a few years ago, just to find out that female was nearly as ill-fitting as male had been. I do basically have support from those around me though. I have a very loving and accepting long-term partner, and good friends as well. They may not totally understand me, but they are quite supportive nonetheless. I don't censure myself as far as my expression goes. Like I said, people don't quite understand me, but they do tend to see me as a creative eccentric. Even though that's not entirely factually correct, it does give me a great deal of freedom and latitude when it comes to expression. You are correct in that I may still have some issues with self-acceptance though.

Ironically, I've gone to a few trans group meetings in the past, but found that I didn't fit in there at all and was kinda treated as an outsider - or a pseudo-->-bleeped-<-.

I also transitioned and came to the conclusion that although I'm not comfortable as male, I also didn't quite feel totally female. I don't flux around much, I'm fairly consistent in feeling female identified, non binary...

Many years ago I went to some trans meetings, felt very much an outsider.

I know what you mean about being seen as a psuedo-->-bleeped-<-. Because of this I decided to start up a small coffee club for non-binaries/gender queers and their supporters and families. My counsellor was really keen on the idea and knows a few people that would be interested in going. I was keen to create it because often people like us don't fit in with standard trans groups. I don't think there is a one size fits all in the trans world.

Where's this coffeehouse!!?? I want to attend... I just know you're going to tell me it's in NZ or somewhere equally far away though! 

Z

[Nicky]

It is in NZ...maybe we could skype? You could be my laptop (assuming I can get a wireless connection there...).

I don't think gender makes a person Jörgen, but I think you can't seperate the person from the gender (assuming you feel you have one, or more). i.e. it is an integral component of self, just like having a heart is important for the funtioning of a body.

[Nero]

Does anyone else here who identifies as non-binary or gender-fluid ever experience feelings of anxiety or discomfort related to having an ever-changing gender identity? Do you ever wish that your gender would just solidify and stay in one place for a change?

My partner swears that my gender changes along some sort of monthly cycle. Frankly though, I think I cycle through my genders much more frequently than that. And sometimes it seems weird and incongruous, even to me. For example, when I am at the height of the pink part of my cycle I'm all butterflies and rainbows and fuzzy puppies. I am calmer, and I prefer more sedate activities like cooking and gardening, spending quality time with my partner and pets and making music and art. I've noticed that I also physically pass as female better when I'm like this, no doubt because of my body language, or, as some people call it, "energy" seems more female. Most of all, I actually feel like a woman when I am in this mode. I actually like feeling this way the best, although it can get a bit syrupy at times.

Then there is what I would consider my masculine side. This is the part of me that likes to play with firearms and fireworks and all manner of high performance machines. I don't tend to perceive myself as being very feminine at all when I'm in this mode. I become more competitive, more confident, analytical, critical, and can be a bit of an insensitive prick. I can't pass worth a crap either, except at a distance. I'm just kind of a weird sissy-looking dude. I think it confuses other people almost as much as it confuses me. I also realize that I don't like this part of myself as much as my femme or gender-neutral states.

My *gender-neutral* state. My state of equilibrium. This is actually where I am at most of the time, and as one might guess, it lies between the aforementioned extremes. It also feels like the most natural place for me to be. I really don't like this part of myself as well as my girlie side, but gender-wise, I do recognize it as the most versatile and functional aspect of who I am.

Unfortunately, I don't get to choose which mode I'm going to be in on any given day. I am absolutely powerless over my shifting, drifting genders. They just come and go at will and whichever one has control at any given moment makes itself right at home. For the most part I am content to just ride it out, but sometimes I just wish it would stop - or at least slow down long enough for me to catch my breath.

At any rate, I was just wondering if anyone else has these kinds of thoughts, and if so, how you deal with them.

Hi K,

As a binary type trying to understand - couldn't what you're describing just be shifts in mood from day to day? I mean I have days where I try to catch up on soap operas or pay extra attention to my hair (and feel less than masculine while doing it  ). So, couldn't it just be a mood shift where you feel like doing something else that day?
I can grasp the concept of psychology androgyny, but don't understand how gender can actually 'shift' from day to day.
Isn't the core gender whether it be male, female, or something else 'anchored' in some way? Or not?

[fluffy jorgen]

I've come to a conclusion that the trans meetings aren't that important. Find somebody who genuinely cares and wants to know and share their own problems, life experiences, whether it be about about gender or no- and you're sorted.

Isn't the core gender whether it be male, female, or something else 'anchored' in some way? Or not?

Maybe the fact that it changes is the only thing that is anchored? Liked your theory about mood swings though.

[Eva Marie]

I also do the presto gender flux deal. I notice that the femme side comes out when everything in my life is pretty much under control and things are rolling along nicely. She runs and hides and the boy pops out when bigger issues are afoot. And all of this is happening in stealth mode since no one but my wife knows about me being androgyne (and ya'll here too ), and she doesn't care to acknowledge it or talk about it in any way *sigh*

I guess it would be nice to remain in one place, but since it's not happening and it's not gonna happen I need to learn to be happy in my own skin.

[fluffy jorgen]

but since it's not happening and it's not gonna happen I need to learn to be happy in my own skin.

Kudos.
What if this is the way we're meant to be?
Though if we are, then why the question?

[Pica Pica]

I also seem to waxe and wane in a tidal, moonlike manner. It's not frightening or intimidating to me nowadays as I've been watching this realm of myself for a few years now and it is a very steady kind of change, just like the moon - the object itself is always there but the relationship to it changes in a predicatable manner.


As for how the changes feel, it's just I am drawn to certain things and ways of relating to them and I crave the company of the people that expect me to be one way or another.