Now on the other side of it...

[maidenprincess]

Hi there.  So today I was in my math class in college and I usually keep to myself in class.  The room is pretty full so only a few desks are left, and this one girl and her friend sit beside me every time.  I never really formed an opinion on them, and I still don't really have one.  Anyway, there's an androgynous looking person in our class as well, and the two girls and another girl included me in the guessing game of "Guess the gender".

Now, it was very odd to me, being an MtF transsexual, being on the other side of this sort of whispered ridicule.  I remember in junior high being in that person's exact same position, having people guessing my gender and whispering behind my back.  But now the same kind of people who did that to me were including me in their disturbed agitation like I was one of them.  If they only knew, lol.

I found the experience really weird.  When the one girl asked me if I knew the person's gender, I just shrugged and told her to ask.  She just laughed and turned to the other girl and planned to "check" the person while she walked to the trash can carrying the wrapper of the piece of gum she gave to me.  She came back and laughed with her friend and turned to me and I just smiled politely because I was bewildered that college students would stoop to this behavior.

I just wanted to share this because all I thought while driving home was... "What just happened today?"  I feel like although I was not in the radar, I felt sad for the person who was.  I dunno, it was strange to me to be in this situation.  I think the person was male and perhaps not even transgendered or anything at all.  I'm not the type to speak out on anything or defend anyone, even myself, so I just observed like I would anything else.

What would you have done?  Would you have chided them for their immaturity?  Would you have spouted all things transgender?  Would you have admitted to being transgender?  I'd like to hear your thoughts on this.

[Ms Bev]

Ithink I would have come away from it with a mixed bag of feelings, but would just have said, "I don't know....why don't you ask?"
At work, I sell major appliances, and when a woman asks for me because she wants a woman's opinion, I happily oblige, even though I can see the expressions on coworkers' faces.  Some actually mildly roll their eyes, but say nothing.
I don't know.....I have ambiguous feelings too......


Bev

[heatherrose]

I had a slightly similar experience but the person
who was the center of attention was "ME". 

...it was a little disconcerting to listen to the story and
witness the reactions and comments from the audience.

If you care to read the account, this is the link.


https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,54442.msg427804.html#msg427804

[tekla]

Great job of standing up for your sisters, brothers and other people of diversity - when you are the subject of this don't ask for help - your help has already been noted.

Do not ask, for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee.

[ginger39]

I have been put in these types of situations many times and the underlying question is always, why?

I can tell you with certainty that I have always had the look. Gay, trans, whatever you want to call it. I have always been easily marked. In fact, looking at pictures from my younger days I really did look like a woman in drag as a man.

And that is the point to the whole thing. Naturally, people just assumed I was gay so they would bring up the topic, point out some gay people and say something like did you know Joe Bob was gay? I sure don't understand how a man could find love in another man's harry arse. With this statement they have just literally asked you for permission to start gay bashing. Now you are in a quandary. Either stand up for the gay person and basically admit that you are gay or go along with them. They get big fun out of it either way and at your expense 'cause they are pretty darned sure that you are gay. And if you go along with them it just reinforces their beliefs and you have just admitted that gay or trans people are sub-human.

Sure there are some stock replies that can help diffuse the situation a bit but I think that whenever someone who I am not friends with includes me in this type of discussion it is always for my benefit if you know what I mean. I am also quite sure that no matter what approach I take that as soon as I am out of ear shot they get a huge giggle at my expense which is why I always do my best to defend gay and trans people.

Maiden, I think they must have been pulling the same stunt with you. They were telling you and loudly that we know what you are and we don't like it and we are better than you. Just a thought. Could be wrong 'cause I don't know the exact situation.

[tekla]

You could try to tell them - and if that don't work, force the idea down their throat - that such topics are unacceptable points of conversation, and by the way 'say dear, does an abortion hurt as much as I've been told it does?' - that polite people do not engage in such speculation about other people.

[Cindy]

Just because some people are rude and you may be nervous of being "outed" or suprised that you are accepted, does not allow condoning that type of bad behaviour.  Mobs (gangs) have a tendency to rule through fear. The smallest mob you can have is two. Sadly I feel you have let them insult and hurt another person, and possibly yourself. We all know the 'if only I had ' feeling but we have to practice how we should react in those situations.

For myself? Its a new college, what ever? You had a chance, and maybe still do to make a very good friend. I hope I would have gone over to the person and quietly say, "the girls over there are saying nasty things about you to me." "I'm upset on what they say". "Fancy a coffee after class?"
Then you could and maybe still will have the chance to say what happened. You don't need to out yourself. You can be the girl you are. You may, just may, get a friend who will be with you for ever.

Just my 5 cents worth. BTW I'm not making any judgement calls, just comments.

Hugs

Cindy

[finewine]

My daughter sometimes gets comments about her "weird" eyes (severe congenital glaucoma and a squint).  It's not her fault and it hurts to have your differences mocked.

I told her to meet the irrational with the rational - if someone comments, give them a quick lesson in what the condition is, what you have to go through and how you'd prefer it if they just asked rather than laughed.  Most of the time, the morons will just keep laughing...but every now and then, one of them will pause for thought.

...and just reaching that one is why you should always stand up to prejudice.

[maidenprincess]

Great job of standing up for your sisters, brothers and other people of diversity - when you are the subject of this don't ask for help - your help has already been noted.

Do not ask, for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee.

I don't expect any help if I were to become the subject because I didn't get any help before and I know how to handle the situation if that were the case.  I respect your courage to fight and defend those who are being picked on.

Maiden, I think they must have been pulling the same stunt with you. They were telling you and loudly that we know what you are and we don't like it and we are better than you. Just a thought. Could be wrong 'cause I don't know the exact situation.

I don't really know if they talk about me or not, to be honest.  It would be pretty clever of the girl to ask me what the gender of someone else is all while guessing mine in the process, but I think she just wanted to gossip with anyone who sat near her.

[Tank Grrl]

At my last job, a co worker was complaining about the Gay marriage issue, saying that it is sick and wrong. I spoke up and said that it was a free country, so people should be able to marry whom they want. He then said that it "was in the bible, that god hates gays". I then told that there are many decrees in the bible, and that some include killing your neighbor, stoning your wife, et cetera, did he follow them all?(personally, I don't care about any bible, but i did have it shoved down my throat till I was 18) Anyhow the conversation went south at this point and he eventually accused me of worshiping satan because I wear a pentacle! I ended up getting in trouble with the boss also. Well, I didn't last long at that job, conservatives! I still feel like I did the right thing.

If i was in the same situation as you, Maiden, I would have simply said something like "that's pretty immature behavior". But then again it would really depend if I was having a bad day or not! On a bad day I might just call them ignorant idiots!

Edited Lanuage - Jay

[Sephirah]

For some people, when the focus shifts to someone else who they sympathise with and can relate to in whatever way, by those who had previously focused their attention on the person themselves, it's been my observation that this provides a kind of security. I suspect that it's mixed feelings of "Well now I get to see what they say about me from the inside", "I'm being accepted among them and treated as an equal and any issues I may have are forgotten", and even a case of 'do unto others as others have done unto you'.

Hardly surprising you would react the way you did. Not everyone is a staunch and outspoken defender of all that ever gets scrutinised for being different. I suppose that often one person's differences become another person's shield of obscurity, and if you spend the majority of your life being scrutinised for who you are then, when the gaze shifts, such a shield will be comfortable to hide behind for a while.

[placeholdername]

... because I was bewildered that college students would stoop to this behavior.

Have you been at college long?  College students are worse than teenagers .

[maidenprincess]

Have you been at college long?  College students are worse than teenagers .

Apparently!

And Sephirah, what you say is quite true.  Great post!

[Arch]

College students are worse than teenagers .

Ninety percent of the college students I teach ARE teenagers.

[Cindy]

Ninety percent of the college students I teach ARE teenagers.

Arch, there appears a particular mind set for teenagers at college (USA) or Univeristy (Aus). It is very low, very unfeeling and VERY scared. I'm don't remember being that way, but I'm sure I was.
BTW I don't do classes often, but I did over the last few weeks. Amazed by how many students just play games on phones Ipods etc during the lecture. But they HAVE to have the lectures filmed and recorded for download.  There was also a group who got 1.25% of the mark for turning up .

I hate to say it but things have changed and not for the better. Think is now a swear word.

Hugs hun, How are you going BTW haven't seen a post for a while

Cindy

[K8]

Maiden,
What I would do now and what I would do when I was in college are completely different.  I spent much of my life trying to be invisible.  I knew I didn't pass well as a man and tried to blend into the background as best I could.  I probably would have reacted as you did - relieved that I wasn't the focus this time and conflicted because I knew I should have stood up for the object of the derision and for all of us.  If you see the person again, you might try Cindy's approach to possibly befriend him/her.  (We can all use all the friends we can get.)

I would probably be much more outspoken now if I was feeling OK.  (Sometimes I just want to make it through the day without too many problems.  Old behavior, perhaps. )  I am much more secure in myself than I used to be and am much more secure in being Kate, too.  But I think you are on the right track.  Even though you did nothing this time, you are questioning your actions and perhaps will be ready next time.

We're all in this together, honey.

- Kate

[Imadique]

My stock response when people are speculating about these things is "why does it matter?". They rarely have an answer for that.

[djknyht]

if it was in this situation I would have asked them what they thought then asked them what does it matter weather male or female, it isnt their life to judge. Weather that outed me or not I am proud to be transgendered regardless of what others think, and I believe every FTM or MTF should be proud of themselves because we are no different then any other, were just going along a difficult path to become who we were ment to me, and to be "more comfortable" with our selves. I wish there was a better way to word that. If they were that interested in knowing I would ahve just told them to ask instead of assuming something that may or may not have been wrong.

d.j