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Human Growth Hormone, FTM

Started by mudd, September 24, 2009, 11:55:14 PM

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Kumodamoogle

Quote from: V on October 01, 2009, 04:55:40 PM
It has been stated that a doctor once said HGH only helped men who have a deficiency of HGH.  That's quite ridiculous for a doctor to be saying, in my opinion.  While we do not have a deficiency of HGH, the levels of a pubescent male cannot be compared to the levels of most adult FTMs.  If we were, in fact, pubescent males and still maintained our levels of HGH, we would be HGH deficient.  That is why our "little guys" aren't able to grow to a size that is deemed average by statistics.  If our testosterone is within average male range, then what else could be the explanation?  That we are simply not "male"?  Nonsense - the male fetus, in essence, has a clitoris in the womb.  Testosterone changes the male fetuses' "clitoris" into a penis with testosterone alone, which is very similar to the growth testosterone is responsible for in FTMs.  However, that alone will not give us what we seek.  HGH is the missing link, or at least, I believe it to be.  It may not work for all people, there is no clear evidence that states that it works at all.  But there is reason to believe it will.

True, I fully agree, Im only warning that you dont really need the same levels as a pubescent male to achieve those goals if theyre going to happen. Taking that much HgH at maturity will enlarge everything in your body capable of still growing - perhaps not much, but do you want to risk it?

On a side note, there are alot of genetic "on and off switches" to growth beyond HgH, and some of those will limit how much development you receive regardless of how much GH you inject. For instance, your example of a fetus. You dont grow a penis from taking Testosterone not so much because you are not male, but because you are not a fetus. Their cells, and our cells are completely different creatures. When undifferentiated fetal urinary type cells are hit with DHT, they elongate, forming the shunt that we all wish we had running down the clit. Without DHT those cells are defaulted to compose the labia minora and vaginal wall. It would be nice if as adults we still had the undifferentiated tissues, but then we'd be reptiles, trying to grow lizards  ;)

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Vancha

Yeah, for sure there are some things you can't change.  That's why you have surgery.  You can't exactly grow a full-functioning, fully-sized penis from the clitoris from an adult.  I think the most important thing is, for surgery to be successful (to pass in locker rooms, to perform as you want it to, etcetera), you need a certain amount of growth.  I think HGH could help with that.

As you seem to have an idea about the levels of HGH necessary for this sort of growth - which sort of levels are you looking for, then?  I know that people often get referral notes for certain things... That require HGH.  But I have yet to find out which sort of disorder would require the same amount of HGH as we might.
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Radar

I thought I'd throw this info out there from BCBS's insurance. It gives you an idea of what situations are covered and what isn't. I just included the prerequisites for an adult since most of us are.

**Warning! Long post. Not for the tl;dr.**

When Growth Hormone is covered:
1. Adult onset symptomatic GH deficiency associated with low GH levels (documented by failure of at least two GH stimulation tests). 24-hour continuous measurements of GH, serum levels of IGF-1, or serum levels of IGFBP-3 are considered inadequate to document GH deficiency.

2. Childhood onset symptomatic GH deficiency, where persistent GH deficiency is documented by at least one failed GH stimulation test performed at least 3 months after the cessation of prior GH therapy.

3. Adult onset symptomatic GH deficiency associated with multiple hormone deficiencies (i.e., panhypopituitarism), as a result of pituitary disease, hypothalamic disease, surgery, radiation therapy, or trauma.
The diagnosis of panhypopituitarism is established when either one of the two following criteria (a or b) are met:
a. At least 2 additional hormone deficiencies (other than GH) requiring hormone replacement therapy are documented (e.g., TSH, ACTH, ADH or gonadotropin hormones) as well as failure of at least 1 GH stimulation test, OR
b. Three pituitary hormone deficiencies (other than GH) requiring hormone replacement therapy (where clinically appropriate) are documented AND a low IGF level (below 80 ng/ml) is documented in lieu of GH stimulation testing.

4. Renewal of coverage for adult GH therapy may be granted on an annual basis without additional testing if the original documentation of failed GH stimulation testing is made available with the request for renewal of coverage, and there is continued clinical benefit in symptoms or signs.

Other conditions in which GH therapy may be considered medically necessary and are eligible for coverage include the following:
1. HIV cachexia or "wasting syndrome," defined by unintentional weight loss of at least 10 percent of baseline weight, or BMI < 20 kg/m2, not attributable to other causes (such as AIDS-associated diarrhea, infection, malignancy or depression), when optimal anti-viral therapy has been instituted. Therapy is continued until this definition is no longer met.

2. Short Bowel Syndrome (SBS), defined as the inability to maintain adequate nutritional status without parenteral (intravenous) supplementation required at least 5 days/week for a total of at least 3,000 calories/ week, due to surgical or functional loss of small bowel.
a. Continued coverage for Short Bowel Syndrome will be approved on a quarterly basis (every 3 months) when continued benefit is documented by a sustained decrease in IV nutritional requirements and sustained weight.

3. Promotion of wound healing in children or adults with 3rd degree burns.

When Growth Hormone is not covered:
A. When none of the conditions under "When Covered" are present, OR when any of the conditions for continued therapy ("renewal criteria") are not met, the use of GH therapy will be considered not medically necessary.

B. The use of Growth Hormone for short stature in patients with no proven Growth Hormone deficiency (e.g., idiopathic short stature without evidence of biologic impairment of the growth hormone pituitary axis) is not covered. It is considered cosmetic.

C. Investigational conditions. The use of GH therapy is considered investigational and is not covered for certain conditions, including but not limited to:
1. Constitutional delay (defined as lower than expected height percentiles compared with their target height percentiles and delayed skeletal maturation when growth velocities and rates of bone age advancement are normal.)
2. Therapy for geriatric patients, defined as age >65.
3. Anabolic therapy provided to counteract acute or chronic catabolic illness due to surgery outcomes, trauma (except for children with severe burns or for promotion of wound healing in children or adults with third degree burns), cancer, chronic hemodialysis (except as specified above for chronic renal
insufficiency) or chronic infectious disease producing catabolic (protein wasting) changes in both adult and pediatric patients (except for the specific covered indication of AIDS wasting noted above.)
4. Anabolic therapy provided to enhance body mass or strength for professional, recreational or social reasons.
5. Glucocorticoid-induced growth failure.
6. Short stature after renal transplantation.
7. Short stature due to Bloom or Down Syndrome.
8. Treatment of altered body habitus (e.g., buffalo hump) associated with antiviral therapy in HIV infected patients.
9. Precocious puberty.
10. Obesity.
11. Cystic fibrosis.
12. Idiopathic dilated cardiomyopathy.
13. Infertility.
14. Juvenile rheumatoid (or idiopathic chronic) arthritis.
15. Chronic hepatitis.
16. Diabetes.
"In this one of many possible worlds, all for the best, or some bizarre test?
It is what it is—and whatever.
Time is still the infinite jest."
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JonasCarminis

that post is so getting pulled...
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Nero

Nero was the Forum Admin here at Susan's Place for several years up to the time of his death.
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Vancha

Well, I thought it was brilliant and educational.  How are we supposed to keep ourselves from being in harm without such information?  Ah well.  ::)
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JonasCarminis

Quote from: V on October 04, 2009, 03:25:13 AM
Well, I thought it was brilliant and educational.  How are we supposed to keep ourselves from being in harm without such information?  Ah well.  ::)

well... we can keep ourselves from harm by going to a doctor who can monitor us and do blood tests.  we can also stay out of harm by not giving information to people that could encourage them to try to administer HGH to themselves.
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Alex_C

I can't understand how some of this stuff stays up but stuff where a person is discussing self-injecting and DOES mention they're under the care of a doctor, they're just doing their shots themselves like I do, gets pulled.

Some of this stuff is better pursued on some of "those" bodybuilding sites not here.
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Kumodamoogle

Ah hell I didnt know that was a no-no, sorry. But honestly it wasnt a dosage chart anyway, it was a blood serum level approximation. You'd need a medical professional, or at least a lab to help figure that out. Dosages would look alot different, and I couldnt even give an ~ until I knew what the base strength of the stuff you had was, and how much water you were mixing ect ect.

I put it up, because I figured Droo was calling me out on not knowing my ass from a hole in the ground, and you guys were talking about some dangerous side effects being bonuses. If you found a Physician who was like, "SURE sounds neat!",  that would harm ya alot more than what your blood serum levels should be. Forgive me but, I have found that most doctors have their heads up their butts when it comes to sports medicine/experimentation. Just wanted you guys to know I was serious, and not cheezin'.  :embarrassed:

Oh, and Droo, didnt see the second part of your question, the answer to which would be boneloss associated with age, and if you really wanted to get scary, and go for the higher doses, the wasting due to HIV. I wouldnt give myself HIV just to get GH treatments however. Just find a good Endo whos not a retard, and explain why you want it. A good one will know how much to give ya.
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Radar

Quote from: Josh on October 04, 2009, 01:58:03 AMthat post is so getting pulled...
I don't see why. It's just information on what and what not one insurance company will cover for HGH. You have to have some extreme conditions to get covered, and definitely won't be covered for trans reasons. Guys were wondering if insurance would cover it and under what conditions.

You have to have a prescription for HGH, but if someone does get a prescription they'd most likely have to pay out of pocket- which is thousands per month. No mention of dosages are revelled. If someone was foolish enough to get "black market" HGH then most likely they would've done it anyway.
"In this one of many possible worlds, all for the best, or some bizarre test?
It is what it is—and whatever.
Time is still the infinite jest."
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Nero

Quote from: Radar on October 05, 2009, 07:11:13 AM
I don't see why. It's just information on what and what not one insurance company will cover for HGH. You have to have some extreme conditions to get covered, and definitely won't be covered for trans reasons. Guys were wondering if insurance would cover it and under what conditions.

You have to have a prescription for HGH, but if someone does get a prescription they'd most likely have to pay out of pocket- which is thousands per month. No mention of dosages are revelled. If someone was foolish enough to get "black market" HGH then most likely they would've done it anyway.

Hi Radar,
That was in reference to a deleted post under yours.
Nero was the Forum Admin here at Susan's Place for several years up to the time of his death.
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Radar

Quote from: Nero on October 05, 2009, 08:02:30 AMHi Radar,
That was in reference to a deleted post under yours.
Oh, O.K. I missed that. It's been a long week (already). :eusa_doh:
"In this one of many possible worlds, all for the best, or some bizarre test?
It is what it is—and whatever.
Time is still the infinite jest."
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Vancha

Quote from: Kumodamoogle on October 04, 2009, 03:09:18 PM
Ah hell I didnt know that was a no-no, sorry. But honestly it wasnt a dosage chart anyway, it was a blood serum level approximation. You'd need a medical professional, or at least a lab to help figure that out. Dosages would look alot different, and I couldnt even give an ~ until I knew what the base strength of the stuff you had was, and how much water you were mixing ect ect.

I put it up, because I figured Droo was calling me out on not knowing my ass from a hole in the ground, and you guys were talking about some dangerous side effects being bonuses. If you found a Physician who was like, "SURE sounds neat!",  that would harm ya alot more than what your blood serum levels should be. Forgive me but, I have found that most doctors have their heads up their butts when it comes to sports medicine/experimentation. Just wanted you guys to know I was serious, and not cheezin'.  :embarrassed:

Oh, and Droo, didnt see the second part of your question, the answer to which would be boneloss associated with age, and if you really wanted to get scary, and go for the higher doses, the wasting due to HIV. I wouldnt give myself HIV just to get GH treatments however. Just find a good Endo whos not a retard, and explain why you want it. A good one will know how much to give ya.

Thank you, I think you are very right, and meant no harm at all.  :)  I will have to locate a good endo, but I doubt I will find one in my province.  Being in Canada, and in the middle of nowhere, it will be difficult to find a progressive, forward-thinking, yet knowledgeable endocrinologist who can keep me safe on HGH, while giving me the results I do want.  I wouldn't mind a little bit of growth (say, in hands and feet) on it, but I don't want to cause any unnecessary or irreversible harm to my young body.  That is why I found there to be no harm in your post, really - you need a medical professional, there is no way you glorified illegal and unsafe use.
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