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Simplified Gender Model - Just one possible opinion

Started by Mia and Marq, November 10, 2006, 06:11:27 AM

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Mia and Marq

Hi everyone.

I was talking with a young lady this evening in much detail about my take on a representative gender model to try to describe as much of gender as possible. I ask that you read the model in its entirety before making any comments about it. One of the biggest questions asked is about whether gender traits are naturally selected or a social construction. For sake of this model, I am choosing one of the two possibilities and do not dismiss the model because of this choice, view it as one way to try to clarify the gender picture.

To simplify the model, I'm removing or renaming some words until the big picture is present. I may use cliche colors within the model to represent points a little easier. My choice of colors is not important, so don't give me a hard time if I pick pink and blue to represent male and female, it could just as well be red and green.

---ROUGH DRAFT VERSION---
Colorful Sheets of Paper Gender Model
Imagine if you will that all people could be represented as being one of three different colored pieces of paper, lets say a black sheet of paper, a grey sheet of paper, and a white sheet of paper. What sheet of paper you are represented by is what your physical sex is. For sake of argument, lets call a man black, female white, and an intersex individual(one having both or no physical sex) grey. The level to what extend any one person falls may be a different shade of grey as the extremes but for simplicity sake its not important, since it is more conceptual.

Now suppose that there were a number of personality traits that could be described exclusively as being of just grouping based on a general rule. For example we want lists of words that contain the letter a, lists that contain the letter e, and the lists that contain both a and e assuming no other words outside these lists exist. Lets color these lists for sake of argument green for a words, red for e words, and words containing both letters are yellow. This represents static personality traits associated with males or females or both. Obviously the list that shares both a and e is going to be much shorter but will occur. Stay with me here, this statement might anger you but the bigger picture will smooth out. People associate negative thoughts with what might be considered gender norms. What I'm describing here is solely gender personality traits. This does not include at all any gender roles, so strike the idea of gender roles from your mind right now.

Now we have a bunch of sheets of paper of 3 colors. Upon these sheets we start to place any words from either list, the words being of red, green, or yellow color, onto the pages and fill each page up with the words that define that person as a whole. Now we look at the pages for all these people we've represented sex and gender traits for. We'll notice that trends form in what color paper has what color words as a majority. You will find almost no instances where a specific paper color will only have one color. This is because in general, most people have some from all 3 lists. The people who experience gender problems have special circumstances.

Here is a rough list of what you'll find for some of the gender possibilities. A relatively average male will be on lets say black paper. Again my choice of colors is not important. This black paper has a couple red words but most of the list will be of the green and yellow words, red being traits associated with females, green with males, and yellow being undeterminably shared traits. We're not going to try to identify what each list contains because its not important to show the grand picture. A relatively average female will be on the white paper with again a light sample of green words and most will be of the red and yellow color.

Now we come to the unique gender possibilities a lot of us experience. One who is say a transgendered female, born as a male for example, would be a black piece of paper with most of the terms being red and yellow, with a couple being green in color. Lets say because the large number of words of color that might contrast the paper color stands out, they realize they are not printed on the right paper. Steps can be took to be reprinted to some degree on another color of paper or SRS, as is described as a coming out or rebirth. Obviously if the words together with the paper don't seem to contrast enough that the color of the paper needs to be changed or not changed completely to the opposite color, little or nothing has to be done. It remains completely a personal choice. Obviously for a transgendered male, the paper color would be the opposite and the composition of red to green words would be inverted.

Moving along, lets cover say an Androgyne. Well by the definition of an androgyne you're going to have some color piece of paper, doesn't matter which one, with a set of words from both the green and red lists. This actually covers almost everyone, so lets narrow it to who identifies as an androgyne, because those are the people who this example would best describe. Lets talk about a male androgyne, black sheet of paper with a number of red words, green words and yellow words. One identifies as an androgyne usually when the number of red words and green words are pretty equal or still close to the same number of each. The reason that these people can realize something isn't quite right is that there is a certain amount of conflict with how the sheet looks either for those looking at the sheet or the sheet itself also doesn't feel quite right. Because women can get away with far more of the green terms on their sheets, they aren't pressured quite as easily to recognize something is amiss, but it still occurs under different circumstances.

Someone would doesn't consider themself to be either gender also might identify themself as being a piece of paper, once again what color doesn't matter, with mostly just the yellow terms, and few green or red terms. One who considers themself bi-gendered as well as anyone that identifies as perhaps a straight down the middle androgyne might be a sheet of paper containing almost all of the red, green, and yellow words.

How does sexual preference play into this model. Well its not important to gender at all. Every possible combination of colored pieces of paper with every possible combination of red, green, and yellow words could have any sexual preference and so is not a factor in the model. Certain trends might appear but not enough to be considered since averages only tell you whats common, and everyone in their own right is perfectly unique.

This model can be taken further to describe all aspects of a person down to what nationality, hair color, eye color, or anything else that describes someone, but keeping the model simple to talk about gender was the intention.

Ok I'm ready to say something about gender roles. This is probably what you may feel enraged about. Gender roles are sets of behaviors expected from a gender. That right there tells you that gender roles are decided by society and you can't be sure those are going to be fair. I reject gender roles, kids should have the choice to grow up playing with dolls or trucks, everyone should be able to wear anything they want to experess themselves in any way they want. Gender roles are like lines to see a picture or something, you have to get in one line and people want to force you into that line, but you know that you want to stand between the two lines because thats where you can see all the things that appeal to you. So hopefully before you attack the gender model above you seperate gender roles from that represented with the colored words. Gender roles are where the real problem lies.

I urge you though when you're trying to explain what you are to use my model. It gives people a seperated perspective of simple concepts without making them get tied up with preconcieved gender beliefs. Make sure you mention what the colors of paper and colored words represent after you are sure the person understands what is trying to be said.

I have left the lists of what fall under each list of colored words intentionally blank because its not important to understand the concept. Inevitably people will disagree on what each list contains but they can agree that this model can identify a lot of differences we as humans have but share at the same time. I hope you've found this informative and well presented.

One last thing to note in case you felt that the words that fall under the red or green color should be changable, any such change would require massive changes in society but would overall not affect the model since its unlikely that a signifcant number of words would change at the same time leaving any one persons page practically the same status. In other words, even a changing list of red and green words would still describe everyone just as well.

Thank you for your time. I am eternally in debt to the people around me for the kindness and support I have experienced here. I would love to address any questions you have in PM or as comments below.

-Us
Being given the gift of two-spirits meant that this individual had the ability to see the world from two perspectives at the same time. This greater vision was a gift to be shared, and as such, Two-spirited beings were revered as leaders, mediators, teachers, artists, seers, and spiritual guides
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LordKAT

Too confusing. What good is a model that makes less sense than much simpler explanations. Colored paper? You could write something this way forever but I think few would read it or get the point.
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Nicky

You might have missed the boat on that one. Marq and Mia have not been around for a couple years.
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aisha

yeah.. i did not understand that at all.. but it did inspire me to write the second part to this poem

We left the alleyways of postal mayhem and went out into the valleys. They were wide open and infinite. I cried
everything sucked
my poetry was shrivelled
all i could think of was myself
self contained i destroyed my own own cycle

autumns coming
i forgot about that broad leaved beauty
all over the ponds and in the air
clear and carefree
wearing orange eating muffins
closed windows and natural regretless regret
trains plains old coffee stains
are birds still around in fall?
i don't trip over logs
i found a snail under a log, dreaming on your corduroy dress
delight moving in eyes and
the lit up headlight grass
im different than i was
were diffrent than we were
new food, fading in and out like radios in tandem
and i lay down to pray and stuff
making something cozy everywhere
to be cozy everywhere
to see the young flame in the rain
you were talking about nothing
rivery while the wind blew past the mailbox
but it is warm still I keep reminding myself
the air wraps around my legs
that contain legacies and continue to root
like cheerleaders on some backdrop to a religous experience
overall, the house is empty
the cat i never had, comes and rubs against the chair leg
then my leg
three meows and i shout softly to her
"ahhh my god, the worlds so crazy isnt it!"
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cindianna_jones

This is freakin cool!  Really! 

Cindi

Quote from: aisha on August 06, 2009, 01:45:34 AM
yeah.. i did not understand that at all.. but it did inspire me to write the second part to this poem

We left the alleyways of postal mayhem and went out into the valleys. They were wide open and infinite. I cried
everything sucked
my poetry was shrivelled
all i could think of was myself
self contained i destroyed my own own cycle

autumns coming
i forgot about that broad leaved beauty
all over the ponds and in the air
clear and carefree
wearing orange eating muffins
closed windows and natural regretless regret
trains plains old coffee stains
are birds still around in fall?
i don't trip over logs
i found a snail under a log, dreaming on your corduroy dress
delight moving in eyes and
the lit up headlight grass
im different than i was
were diffrent than we were
new food, fading in and out like radios in tandem
and i lay down to pray and stuff
making something cozy everywhere
to be cozy everywhere
to see the young flame in the rain
you were talking about nothing
rivery while the wind blew past the mailbox
but it is warm still I keep reminding myself
the air wraps around my legs
that contain legacies and continue to root
like cheerleaders on some backdrop to a religous experience
overall, the house is empty
the cat i never had, comes and rubs against the chair leg
then my leg
three meows and i shout softly to her
"ahhh my god, the worlds so crazy isnt it!"
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aisha

thank you Cindi!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Mia and Marq

Has it been years? That doesn't seem right. Maybe though.

The idea behind the model was to try to represent things in a visual sort of way showing that a person is defined by a number of different attributes when it comes to gender, sexual preference, natal sex, and gender expression. Perhaps the delivery was confusing in word form. Actually representing with pictures would have been immensely more understandable.

And perhaps that is a project for another day.

~M&M
Being given the gift of two-spirits meant that this individual had the ability to see the world from two perspectives at the same time. This greater vision was a gift to be shared, and as such, Two-spirited beings were revered as leaders, mediators, teachers, artists, seers, and spiritual guides
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FairyGirl

From an artist's perspective, standard computer RGB values for just black, white, and gray range from 00 00 00 (black) to 255 255 255 (white) meaning there are at least 254 shades of gray in between, as each gray is a combination of 3 identical values for RG, and B. If you start adding shades of red, blue, green, yellow, magenta, cyan, etc. you end up with 16,777,216 colors (including black, white, and all the grays). I think that might begin to approach the various possibilities of gender expression there are among humans. Then again there are over 6.5 billion of us so that might be a little off...

(personally, I'm 255 194 225 or a nice shade of pink :laugh:)
Girls rule, boys drool.
If I keep a green bough in my heart, then the singing bird will come.
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Autumn

Is this like the hanky codes for gay men?

"Untucked brown polkadotted hanky, right lapel."
(I have no idea what I may have just labeled myself as.)
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Kvall

#10
.
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Kay

Hi Mia & Marq,
.
I see what you're trying to do, and while I think you did water gender down quite a lot, it sounds a bit too drawn out which makes it appear less simplified and less clear than you probably intended.  Sometimes too many words can turn a good example into a gooey mess that is hard for listeners to hold onto.  While I think this would probably be easy enough to understand if you were there with physical examples, it's a bit harder to hold onto in plain text.
.
.
A lot of whether you succeeded or not depends on what you were trying to accomplish. For me, a "simplified model" is something that is too watered down to be of much benefit on its own...So it needs to be something that can be easily and quickly remembered and referred to...so that it can help facilitate further exploration and discussion of the issue.  It gives you the bare bones...someplace to start adding the meat to.
.
You're close I think..."Black paper & green words"  "White paper & red words"  Short...simple...something the listener can hold onto.  I honestly think you could cut out the "a" "e" vowels section...as it needlessly complicates the simple 3-color paradigm, and you don't really need to refer to the vowels again to get across "X color = words associated with male, or female, or neither/both." (you can just as easily state that one list is shorter, or use 2 primary-1 secondary color (yellow/blue/green) to get your message of blending across).
.
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Also, it's dangerous, when making a simplified model, to assume that the reader will accept all of your statements as fact and just let you continue on your way without question.  You're making an argument with the model...and as soon as the reader disagrees, they're either going to ask for clarification...or if they can't...they're going to lose interest, or throw the model out the window.  As soon as you say something that the reader doesn't understand, or find to be credible/believable/in-line-with-their-experience...you've lost them.  (each building block is built on the one before it) A reasonable reader will give you a chance to explain your point of view, but if you steamroll over their objections and don't stop to enlighten them, you'll lose them even faster.
.
After you said this, is where I had to force myself to pay attention, instead of
just throwing it out the window that I would if I were a casual reader.  (probably just where you expected it to):
.
"This represents static personality traits associated with males or females or both. Obviously the list that shares both a and e is going to be much shorter but will occur. Stay with me here, this statement might anger you but the bigger picture will smooth out. People associate negative thoughts with what might be considered gender norms. What I'm describing here is solely gender personality traits. This does not include at all any gender roles, so strike the idea of gender roles from your mind right now."
.
Reasons:
#1.  This is the first time you've used the word "gender" in your model of gender.  Ever look in the dictionary and see something like this?: "Boorish:of or like a boor."  Not very helpful of Mr. Webster.  If you're defining/explaining "gender," try not to use the word until it has been completely explained...otherwise you're defining things circularly, which tries the readers patience.
.
#2.  I disagree with the premise.  Trying to separate Gender Roles from Gender Personality Traits, is kind of like trying to separate the salt water from the fresh water at the mouth of the Mississippi river in the Gulf of Mexico.  Not easily done.  Even less so when you're trying to simplify the concept of gender, or else 'simplification' would get away from you.  "Gender norms" just throws another undefined concept in there for the reader to grapple with.
.
On this part:
"Stay with me here, this statement might anger you but the bigger picture will smooth out."
.
#3:  Be careful about presuming what your reader is feeling, or about telling them what they should be angry about, or what they should be wary of.  If your intended audience doesn't know what gender is (which is why you're explaining it to them), they probably won't be angry, because the topic isn't as personal for them...but they will wonder why you think they're supposed to be.  Personally, I wasn't angry...but I was looking for an explanation about the difference in the two concepts. 
.
#4: I waited for the "bigger picture," but in the end you pretty much just stated your feeling on gender roles (which I'm sure you'll find much agreement on), and defined them a little...but didn't really separate Gender "Personality Traits" from "Roles" from "Norms."  If I knew nothing about gender, it would have left me not knowing what you meant by the distinction at all.  Since I do know about it though, it just left me lacking the why.
.
I think it's a good start, and overall there are many promising aspects to it.  The main structure is good, and you have the beginnings of what could be very helpful to those who don't understand the subject. 
Sorry if this was a bit too much 'English teacher" for you, but I hope it helped some.
.
-Kay
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Mia and Marq

Your comments have been immensely helpful in what direction and modifications would be helpful in further versions of the model.

We don't always express our ideas in a way that others can easily absorb, and as such without extensive editting, would be a work in progess at best.

Thank you again for your input.

Since we initially wrote this, we've gotten a better feel for how people feel about gender identity, and gender roles. It would be difficult to find words that everyone would get the same meaning out of. As a result, no matter how simple an idea that one could have, its going to get bogged down in the definitions of the wordage used. And suddenly it doesn't seem so simple.

~Mia and Marq
Being given the gift of two-spirits meant that this individual had the ability to see the world from two perspectives at the same time. This greater vision was a gift to be shared, and as such, Two-spirited beings were revered as leaders, mediators, teachers, artists, seers, and spiritual guides
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