Belief Systems Based on Nature’s Law VS Belief Systems Based on Man’s Law

[Julie Marie]

Born and raised Roman Catholic, I went for years with little or no knowledge about any other belief systems.  Something about Catholicism, how I was taught it at least, didn't click with me and I strolled off into the sunset, leaving it behind.

It was years later that I read a "Buddhism, Plain and Simple" by Steve Hagen that I became aware there was at least one belief system that made sense to me.

I'm now beginning to read Wayne Dyer's "Change Your Thoughts – Change Your Life.  Living the Wisdom of the Tao".  Verse 19 of the Tao Te Ching says

Give up sainthood, renounce wisdom,
And it will be 100 times better for everyone.
Throw away morality and justice
And people will do the right thing.
Throw away industry and profit
And there will be no thieves.

When I read this I, at first, rejected this.  It was contrary to everything I was taught and contrary to many of the basic tenants of our society.  Then I thought about it and realized this was genius.  The basic concept is let nature take its course and the world will be a better place. 

Later I realized that sainthood, wisdom, morality and justice are all very important parts of Catholicism.  Saints are people man decided earned the title.  Wisdom comes from scholars, a title bestowed on someone who studies man's teachings.  Morality is man's version of what is right and wrong.  And justice is what is doled out when you break those laws.  Nature has nothing to do with any of this.   

One of the things I hated about the Catholic teachings was the idea you have to suffer if you want to get closer to God.  You had to suffer for the sins of others, "let justice be served", even if you didn't do anything wrong.  This never made any sense to me but the idea of suffering seemed to prevail everywhere I looked.

When I compared my knowledge of Catholicism to Eastern religions I saw that the former was a religion based on man's law while the latter seemed much more in tune with nature's law.  Many, if not most, believe nature is God's creation in its most natural state.  So it stands to reason that any belief system based on nature's law should also be in alignment with God's law.

Catholicism to me was like trying to paddle upstream.  There always was a battle going on – their version of good vs. their version of evil.  If one evil was conquered, there was always another lurking around the corner.  But the things I was told were evil didn't always seem evil and rarely did the priest or nun (or whoever) tell us why something was good or evil.  It just was.  And it WAS according to man's law.  Change seemed to be one of those evils yet change is a fact of life, a fact of nature.

Eastern religions seem more like sitting in a rowboat while guiding your way downstream.  The person paddling upstream will realize little progress and eventually will get tired.  The person going downstream can travel thousands of miles with little effort and experience a fulfilling life.

When we look at many religions/faiths today we see their leaders fighting change.  They hold up a book written two thousand years ago and take quotes from it as evidence why we should fight change.  While many of the basic lessons in the Bible are timeless; it is mostly outdated in today's world.  Galileo was placed under house arrest for the remainder of his natural life after he was found guilty of heresy.  He said the earth revolved around the sun.  The leaders at the time said the Bible said the earth was the center of the universe and therefore he had committed heresy.  Centuries later the Pope apologized for the wrong that had been done to Galileo.  Again, man's law dictating religious belief.

For me, following beliefs based on nature's laws makes more sense.  I don't have that knot in the pit of my stomach all the time.  There's no wondering if I am committing a venial sin or a mortal sin or if I'm sinning at all.  That whole life seems so primitive to me, so medieval.  Even though the Eastern religions are thousands of years old, they are far more timeless than the western ones, and that is because they are in tune with nature's law.

[tekla]

I thought nature's law was Darwin - nature red in tooth and claw, only the strong survive, eat, or be eaten. *



*Though often associated with Darwin, the phrase is Tennyson, from a poem In Memoriam A.H.H. published in 1849, several years before Darwin's Origin.

[lisagurl]

Eastern religions seem more like sitting in a rowboat while guiding your way downstream

Then come the rapids, the water fall, and if you survive those the ocean that has no water to drink. So much for a happy long life.

[juliekins]

Julie, as we have spoken about many times- I believe that God represents love. Some people seem to find God outside themselves, and others from within.

I know an Ungodly act when I see it. It usually comes in the form of hate, violence, bigotry and judgment. I don't hate those who despise me, rather I pity them for remaining unenlightened. They would do better to learn about the peace and inner tranquility that love provides.

Thanks for sharing, hon. Love you!

[Sandy]

Then come the rapids, the water fall, and if you survive those the ocean that has no water to drink. So much for a happy long life.

Yeah, then the coast guard comes and picks you up for not displaying running lights and cites you for having booze on board.

I hate it when an analogy goes bad!


-Sandy(ahoy matey!)

[Janet_Girl]

The Wiccan Redo

And It Harm Not,Do What Thy Will

Most organized religions, such as the Catholic Church, are an attempt to control the masses.

JMHO.
Janet

[Julie Marie]

Then come the rapids, the water fall, and if you survive those the ocean that has no water to drink. So much for a happy long life.

I hate it when an analogy goes bad!

Well, don't pick the raging rapids as the river you wish to coast down.

The idea here is man that has this belief that he can change things to his liking or resist change altogether.  If you fight something long enough you will eventually win and get your way.  Despite a long history of death and destruction, man continues to ignore the fact that you can't win the fight against change.  You may win battles but you'll never win the war.

Many faith based belief systems have waged war to achieve their idea of what needs to be changed.  Think of the Holy Wars. (How anyone could call a war "holy" is beyond me but... )  There was a degree of success and a lot of people died but the wars had to continue in order to keep what they feel they gained.  Today, the battle still goes on.

Many Christian leaders are in a battle to fight against same sex marriage.  That battle will eventually be lost but there will be scars that remain for decades.  Many in the LGBT community cringe when they hear the word "Christian" because those who claim to be Christian are spearheading the efforts to deny them equal rights.  And the words they use in that effort are hurtful.  Christians have become the oppressors of the LGBT community.  While we know not all are like that we also know most all who are claim to be Christian. 

But there are no bad feelings towards Eastern based religions.  Those of that faith accept things as they are and are not threatened by change.  They know, like nature, everything changes.

The concept of "throw away morality and justice and people will do the right thing" is difficult for many to understand.  We have rules and if you break them you should be punished.  But should a man be punished for wearing a dress?  Should a woman be punished for loving another woman? 

It's wrong to kill out of hatred but it's not wrong to be true to yourself.  The religions/faiths that preach otherwise need to take a good look in the mirror.

If God created nature and nature means change then man should accept change as God's law.

Quit trying to paddle upstream.  Turn the boat around and go with the current.  Just stay off the rapids and make sure your running lights are working and the booze is hidden. 

Julie

[FairyGirl]

Taoism (The Watercourse Way) also has always seemed more right to me than other belief systems. Many people think "go with the flow" means drifting aimlessly. It does not. Just because you are not constantly fighting the upstream current doesn't mean you are without a rudder or a paddle, or don't have sense enough to get out and walk around the waterfall. As you said, we choose our path through life, and from our mistakes and our triumphs we learn how to steer.

And nature works much more by cooperation than confrontation, more than Darwin's "red in tooth and claw" scenario would have you believe. Everything has it's place and path in the world, it seems only humans have the hardest time figuring that out. The world becomes as we think it is.

I found Alan Watts' books on Buddhism and Taoism to be very easy to comprehend. I would recommend them to anyone interested in the subjects.

[tekla]

I'm not sure that the Eastern Religions are more in tune with nature, its just that so much of the Western Religions are set up in opposition to it.

Taoism is more a life path than a faith based system.  Indeed at the heart of the Tao is the notion that it does not matter what you do, as the way is eternal and nothing you do can change it. It does not require belief or faith, it simply is.

But in that acceptance Eastern Religions often accepts a lot more than most people in the West would be willing to. 

[lisagurl]

The idea here is man that has this belief that he can change things to his liking or resist change altogether

Well when it is hot I put the A/C on and make it comfortable. I have been doing that for 60 years and will continue doing it till my death. I have no beliefs just experience in what works.

[Bellaon7]

About the water part, when I was growing up the rapids were the only part of the river we were inerested in! Out of 7 of us, only 2 could make it through a nasty part of the Snake River in Idaho w/o falling out of the raft during a heavy run off summer. I was one of the 2 & felt like I missed out on all the fun the other 5 had!       

[lisagurl]

Yes the Snake River is fun around Jackson Hole WY.  I did not fall out either.

[Bellaon7]

I've been wrackin' my brain & looking at maps trying to figure out which section(Idaho) of the Snake we floated. I was a young teen & was too blown away to worry about names. What I do remember is I think it was section that was in the early 80's Old    Millwalkee Beer comercials. It was probably less than 2hrs from Boise. Hells Canyon? It was breathtakingly beautiful & some one remarked "I wonder what the poor people are doing today?"(we were the poor people)!