Do you/have you activley avoided being seen with other transgendered people?

[Julie Marie]

You could ask the rich if they actively avoid being seen with the poor. 

Or you could ask the beautiful if they actively avoid being seen with ugly.

Or you could ask royalty if they actively avoid being seen with commoners.

It's all a matter of "class" and perception and how interacting with someone outside of your "circle" is socially judged.

People who think they are better than someone else will avoid them.  People who are concerned that socializing with certain people will cause others to look down on them will avoid those situations.  If you are worried how others will judge you then you will most likely avoid anyone who might "make you look bad".  (General statement - exceptions noted.)

In my former life I had that 'judging people and avoiding the riff-raff' mentality.  I was even fearful of gays.  But I lived in a box with a bunch of people who taught me that was the right way to be (maybe half of society) and I was ignorant.  Then I went to a gay bar and met some very fine people and the doors began to open.

It's what's in a person's heart that matters, not what they look like.  And I have found some true gems in this new life I would never have known had I stayed in that box.

Julie

[Steph]

You could ask the rich if they actively avoid being seen with the poor. 

Or you could ask the beautiful if they actively avoid being seen with ugly.

Or you could ask royalty if they actively avoid being seen with commoners.

It's all a matter of "class" and perception and how interacting with someone outside of your "circle" is socially judged.

People who think they are better than someone else will avoid them.  People who are concerned that socializing with certain people will cause others to look down on them will avoid those situations.  If you are worried how others will judge you then you will most likely avoid anyone who might "make you look bad".  (General statement - exceptions noted.)

In my former life I had that 'judging people and avoiding the riff-raff' mentality.  I was even fearful of gays.  But I lived in a box with a bunch of people who taught me that was the right way to be (maybe half of society) and I was ignorant.  Then I went to a gay bar and met some very fine people and the doors began to open.

It's what's in a person's heart that matters, not what they look like.  And I have found some true gems in this new life I would never have known had I stayed in that box.

Julie

I think you are being entirely unfair implying that we think we are better than those we choose not to associate with or that we have a riff-raff mentality.  You seem to forget that many of us endured the same loneliness and sense of rejection when we transitioned.  Just when are we allowed to live our lives for ourselves without someone coming along with this holier than thou attitude criticizing us for wanting to live our lives the way they were meant to be.  It's no wonder folks leave sites such as this when we are constantly reminded of the apparent debt we owe.

The topic is about one group of people, TG people and just because I choose not to associate with this group doesn't make me a bad person.  I avoid being seen with many groups/types of people does that make me a bad person?  I do spend an awful lot of time with Special Needs Students, those who have challenges far more severe than anything I've encountered and I do it because of something I choose to do it's got nothing to do with class my dear, but everything to do with compassion, and the trust, and affection exchanged between us.

-={LR}=-

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[Nicky]

I think as trans people we should not be obligated to try to 'blend in'. We should not have to feel the need to blend in just to avoid attention. For me a man in drag should not cause more comment than your average guy in jeans and tshirt. Realisticly it does draw attention, but normalisation won't happen if we constantly hide.

I think we should respect that some of us want to blend in and in that regard I think it is ok to recognise that being with someone that does not blend in so well draws attention to yourself. As women or men you have the right to be treated and be percieved just as any other woman or man.

Personally I have no need to blend but I am concious that my pressence can draw attention to the people I am with. From that perspective I have avoided approaching other stealthy trans people. But you could be walking around naked in high heels in town, I don't care, you can still hang with me (assuming I like you of course  ).

[Autumn]

Yes I do, and I really don't care how people want to call it.  After all, most (if not all) of us live in a free country, and we are entitled to choose who we want to be friends with, who we want to be seen with, who we want to socialize with, etc.

There was a time, several years ago, when I made that mistake, and boy, I regretted it immensely.  To make a long story short.  There I was shopping in the middle of a crowded supermarket at 5:00 P.M. (rush hour) with some trans people who had the "I am my own woman" and "I am my own man" mindset .  The women were worse than the guys.  They didn't even try to speak with a feminine voice or to dress in a manner according to their age and gender identification.  To put it simply, they (none of them) didn't give a damn about anything.  End result: scrutiny, laughs, giggles, hairy looks, and whispers from everybody else at the supermarket and with a good reason.

The "I am my own woman" or "I am my own man" mentality can work if you live in a cave or in a different planet, but if you care to be part of this society and don't want to be discriminated against, at least have the decency to behave (or at least try) like other women or men do.

Or like the saying goes:  If you can't stand the heat, get the hell out of the kitchen.

This, and the other comment in the thread about DQs, is why I was bothered by the drag queen approaching me at work... and why I'm surprised that the responses turned to talking about a movie instead of reacting weirded out like I was. I don't wear a neon sign around my neck, I just get by on my own merits and peoples' perceptions.

I have a TS friend - she's chosen an obscure male name to go by instead of a female one. It doesn't even sound like a real name, even though it's very old. I think that she's inviting a lot of problems because of that. I don't think either of us want to be out in public alone together, but the friend circle we have is large and weird and at social gatherings we look pretty normal.

Transition is transitory. Eventually it ends.  The thing is, a lot of people dealing with our issues also have a lot of comorbid issues. And sometimes people with issues are difficult to deal with or make poor decisions or get into trouble that people who are at a more stable place in their life won't. And it can be inviting trouble to pair up with TS's who are unknown quantities, I think.

[heatherrose]

Who said that you must be friends with anyone based solely on their "trans" status?
Certainly, the only thing that any of us have in common, is we all are gender variant
to some degree. It is unimaginable though, that some would choose not to
associate with someone else based solely on their "trans" status.

[Julie Marie]

I think you are being entirely unfair implying that we think we are better than those we choose not to associate with or that we have a riff-raff mentality.  You seem to forget that many of us endured the same loneliness and sense of rejection when we transitioned.  Just when are we allowed to live our lives for ourselves without someone coming along with this holier than thou attitude criticizing us for wanting to live our lives the way they were meant to be.  It's no wonder folks leave sites such as this when we are constantly reminded of the apparent debt we owe.

The topic is about one group of people, TG people and just because I choose not to associate with this group doesn't make me a bad person.  I avoid being seen with many groups/types of people does that make me a bad person?  I do spend an awful lot of time with Special Needs Students, those who have challenges far more severe than anything I've encountered and I do it because of something I choose to do it's got nothing to do with class my dear, but everything to do with compassion, and the trust, and affection exchanged between us.

-={LR}=-

-={LR}=-

I wasn't singling anyone out or pointing fingers.  All I was doing was making general statements based on what I have learned in my life and acknowledging there are exceptions.  No one statement can apply to everyone except maybe 'we all die'.

If you took what I said personally, it wasn't intended that way and I'm sorry I failed to make that clear.

My point was and is, if we exclude certain people from our lives we may miss out on meeting some very special people.  You work with Special Needs Students.  You know what I'm talking about.  The rest of the world might reject them but you know there are some very special and unique kids there.  You didn't close the door on them and their lives and yours have been enriched because of that.  That's pretty cool.

No judgment, no harm intended.

Julie

[jesse]

And So the arguement begins

[heatherrose]

I was told one time, "The only person that can piss you off, is you."
I do not have the faintest idea why they felt I needed to hear it.

[Steph]

I wasn't singling anyone out or pointing fingers.  All I was doing was making general statements based on what I have learned in my life and acknowledging there are exceptions.  No one statement can apply to everyone except maybe 'we all die'.

If you took what I said personally, it wasn't intended that way and I'm sorry I failed to make that clear.

My point was and is, if we exclude certain people from our lives we may miss out on meeting some very special people.  You work with Special Needs Students.  You know what I'm talking about.  The rest of the world might reject them but you know there are some very special and unique kids there.  You didn't close the door on them and their lives and yours have been enriched because of that.  That's pretty cool.

No judgment, no harm intended.

Julie

Point taken.

While there is no doubt there are many, many wonderful people out there, TG's included, who would enrich our lives should we choose to know them, one shouldn't be judged negatively because we choose not to go out of our way or purposely avoid them.

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[Renate]

I was in a crowded public library one day.
A strange woman came towards me and greeted me loudly, "Hi, I'm Jasmine, I'm transgendered too!"
Her (apparently TG) friend started tugging at her elbow and reminded her that they had to go shopping.

That was a bit weird.

[heatherrose]

"Hi, I'm Jasmine, I'm transgendered too!"

I would have looked her square in the eye and said,
"Nice to meet you Ass Man. I'm sorry, did you say you are transmitting the flu?"
Things that make you go....Huh?

[Miniar]

Who said that you must be friends with anyone based solely on their "trans" status?
Certainly, the only thing that any of us have in common, is we all are gender variant
to some degree. It is unimaginable though, that some would choose not to
associate with someone else based solely on their "trans" status.

I agree with this.
_

That's the thing.
No one can get alone well with everyone, but to decide to purposefully avoid a whole bunch of people for something which they can't help, be it being trans, or gay, or black, or whatever, just sounds... well...
You know what it sounds like.

If I were to write on this forum that I refuse to be associated with black people in real life, then you would (rightly) call me a racist.

Just my 2 cents.

[heatherrose]

If I were to write on this forum that I refuse to be associated with black people in real life, then you would (rightly) call me a racist.

...and what could be rightly said,
if you having said that,
were yourself a black person?

[Miniar]

...and what could be rightly said,
if you having said that,
were yourself a black person?

That's a good question.
Honestly, I think people would still think me a racist, only a self-hating one.

[finewine]

...and what could be rightly said,
if you having said that,
were yourself a black person?

That's an interesting analogy...

"I am a caucasian born in the wrong body.  I went through years of painful surgery and skin bleaching and have now fully transitioned.  I am uncomfortable associating with people of colour"

The immediate conclusion is prejudice, especially when rephrased in these deliberately provocative terms...but maybe we can dig a bit deeper and see that it could be rooted in an intrinsic, parochial discomfort with their own past.  An irrational but genuine fear/discomfort that by knowingly associating with a demographic one has deliberately transitioned out of, one is somehow regressing ones own progress or "outing" oneself?  I dunno...

[Lachlann]

That's an interesting analogy...

"I am a caucasian born in the wrong body.  I went through years of painful surgery and skin bleaching and have now fully transitioned.  I am uncomfortable associating with people of colour"

The immediate conclusion is prejudice, especially when rephrased in these deliberately provocative terms...but maybe we can dig a bit deeper and see that it could be rooted in an intrinsic, parochial discomfort with their own past.  An irrational but genuine fear/discomfort that by knowingly associating with a demographic one has deliberately transitioned out of, one is somehow regressing ones own progress or "outing" oneself?  I dunno...

Actually, I would believe it would go more like this:

"I was born caucasian but feel I am a black person on the inside. After years of remedying this and transitioning to appear black I am now uncomfortable with associating with people transitioning from white to black."

[Mischa]

That's a good question.
Honestly, I think people would still think me a racist, only a self-hating one.

I knew someone like this. He was black but didn't like black people. either way you look at its racism.

[Julie Marie]

...and what could be rightly said, if you having said that, were yourself a black person?

Oh, I'd imagine something like an "Uncle Tom" (not rightly, just what one might hear)

I knew someone like this. He was black but didn't like black people. either way you look at its racism.

The bising, a tree shrew from Palawan, is called anti-social because it avoids its own kind.  In fact, it fights any bising coming into its territory and has to eat all day because it burns up so much energy fighting.

No matter how you label this avoidance issue in the community, there's an underlying reason for it that is not being discussed.

Julie

[MaggieB]

I have and do associate with other TS people in public.  We are aware of the "two ->-bleeped-<-" rule (a term that I find offensive) but I go anyway even though I may and have been outed.  See the thing is, most do not go out the door the first few months passing perfectly.  They need support and companionship in this fragile time.  It got our group strange looks and in one case, we were given bathroom paper towels instead of napkins.  But it didn't kill me and the gals eventually find their way to pass. 

For my situation, I like friends and TS people are friends to me so why wouldn't I want to go out with them?  I will admit though that there is a certain amount of trepidation sometimes and if I am not up to the gauntlet, I have decided to stay home. 

The most difficult times are when there are several new transitioners who really don't know much about how to dress or act in public.  Some may not be up to transitioning and will stop.  They may or may not stop partly because of the experience we have being out in public.  So in that way, my participation is even more important.  Still it requires all the confidence I can muster when some dude starts watching us for half an hour while the gals forget where they are and talk and act manly.   

I don't think this is then a matter of discrimination.  It is a matter of shared experience and a form of mentoring.  Not everyone can do it and I don't think ill of those who can't.

Maggie

[NikkiJ]

Sometimes I do. The support group for my metropolitan area meets in my suburb. I don't go to it because it's usually pretty dysfunctional, and not in sync with where I'm at. If they have a good speaker, say, a surgeon, I'll go and listen.

They usually go out to have a bite to eat afterwards. I did that before I transitioned, it was usually at a very low key place where no one cared. But after awhile, as I became the person I am now, I stopped accompanying them to a restaurant, especially since they go to a much more public place now. Going out was fun at first, but soon I noticed I'd end up at a table with people I really didn't want to be with at all. These same people would give me such stellar advice as "you should take twice as many hormones!" Why, so I can kill myself?? Or they'd do something unladylike such as the time a girl pulled up her sweater at the table to show me her boobs. Classy.

I have no problems moving about in society. The last thing I need is to get labeled by going out with a bunch that draw attention to themselves by reason of numbers, their inability to pass, etc.

Don't get me wrong, I long for a special friend to share this with, but I just don't meet many people that I have things in common with, or that aren't flaky. Add to that the fact that I don't feel my age, I feel younger, and it's very hard to meet anyone.