My Definition of Stealth Is.....

[Julie Marie]

Since it's more than likely the debate over stealth will come up again and again I'm offering anyone who wants to define what stealth is to them here.  If the subject comes up in another thread all you have to do is provide the link to your specific post and you won't have to repeat yourself.

Do not challenge or try to debate the definition another posts here.  Each definition is specific to that person and not open for challenge or debate.  If you want to ask for clarification, feel free to do so.  But no one who posts their definition is wrong because it is theirs.  Do not, in your definition, refer to another definition with which you disagree.  "I disagree with so-and-so's definition....what it should be is..."  Simply state your own opinion without reference to anothers opinion.

To find the web address of your post; post your message, click on the title of your specific message (in this case it would be something like "RE: My Definition of Stealth Is.....") and when the page reloads the new web address comes up in the address bar at the top of your page.  If you want, you can change the title before you post so it is unique from the other titles in the thread.

I begin with the dictionary definition.  Since there are usually more than one meaning I'm choosing the one that refers to moving "imperceptibly".  Specifically it means one can move, interact, and basically live in their world without anyone knowing, suspecting, questioning or having any curiosity regarding their gender presentation.

In my interpretation of what stealth means one can be stealth to varying degrees.  100% stealth (period) means there is no difference between how those in your everyday world perceive your gender and how those same people perceive the gender of someone of the same gender as your identified gender.  In other words, no one knows your birth gender and never suspects it's anything but your identified gender.

Other forms of stealth could be simply going out into the world imperceptibly.  "I went out tonight and was completely stealth."  (This implies a temporary situation and is not the same as the above definition.)

I use "socially stealth" to refer to going out to do everyday things imperceptibly unless you run into someone who knows your history.  You go to the grocery store and no one questions your gender but then you run into your sister.  (not that she outs you, just that she knows.)

In my definition, stealth has varying degrees.  100% is the rarest because it means cutting off all family and friends.  It's worse than the witness protection program.  But I leave it flexible for simplicity.  A CD who goes out and passes with everyone can say "I was totally stealth last night" and if that's how they see it, that's what I accept.

Julie

[Miniar]

My definition is same as yours Julie.

[Janet_Girl]

Also agree, Julie.

Even Calpernia Addams and Andrea James are not Stealth because many many people know who they are.


Janet

[Suzy]

So Julie, would you say that the only difference in your categories is the amount of time it is sustainable?

Kristi

[heatherrose]

Can't argue with logic, though it might be fun to try.

Bump Bump

[Dawn D.]

I'll begin with Dawn's Dictionary description:

Stealth - Adjective/Noun,

To hide, not wanting to be seen or known, Living in secret/the closet.
__________________________________________________________

Stealth can have essentially two phases in my view, before transition and after transition. Either way one is still hiding or not wanting to be found out. Stealth can have it's advantages and it's disadvantages.

Stealth, arriving at the same place you started from; living in secret. The only real difference is you're now a different person. But you are still living a secret.


Dawn

[Steph]

Will there be a prize for the best definition?  I think that once we've dealt with stealth we should have a go at pre-op, post op, non-op, how about TS and of course lets define umbrellas.

The winning definition could be attached/included in the TOS for everyone to adhere to and obey.

Second thoughts... nah lets not, we would have to argue about a first prize.  But on the oft chance that I may win... Here's mine:

If I can Ph*ck you, then I fooled you, now that is stealth.

-={LR}=-

[Alyssa M.]

The need for the term "deep stealth" implies that "stealth" comes in degrees. If "stealth" meant 100% invisibility to the world of one's pre-transition life and nothing less, then there would be no need for "deep stealth."

Using Janet's example, I always figured that Andrea James and Calpernia Addams used "Deep Stealth" ironically, since their lives, and especially their business of that name, are the very opposite of stealth, that is, "out and proud." ("Proud," not in the sence of, "Yay, being trans rocks," but in the sense of, "Yes, I'm trans, so what?")

I don't really think that "passing" and "stealth" ought to be used as synonyms or even different degrees on the same spectrum. Stealth, to me, is about one's attitude toward life, while passing is about how one is perceived in social settings. James and Addams pass quite well, but don't try to hide their past. If you want stealth, look at Lynn Conway's life before she was outed. She probably didn't pass quite as well as James and Addams -- if anyone was looking, and perhaps only because FFS wasn't available to her until later -- but even if someone had suspicions, they couldn't confirm them. That's stealth.

I consider them both to be words with highly charged political connotations, so I avoid using them.

[FairyGirl]

Thank you Julie for making this thread, great idea. 

A couple of the definitions I came across when looking up definitions:

Stealth
1. Living and passing in society in the opposite gender role, with absolutely no contact with the Community, and no knowledge of such by friends, coworkers, associates, etc. 2. Highly closeted, giving no hint of being transgender(ed) to friends, spouse, etc. 3. Any of several variants of the above. Term is somewhat overloaded.

The "community" in reference is the transgender community, which is just one of the references that mention having no contact whatsoever.

Here is an entire page dedicated to what it means to be "stealth". Some very good information there. [edited to remove expired link]

Like everyone else I agree that stealth is something achievable and/or attained in degrees, and doesn't necessarily mean you have "finished transitioning", nor does saying that imply that transition does not end at some point. I live, work, and play 24/7 as a woman now because I am a woman. After my SRS next June the only thing I see really changing in my life is that my outie will become an innie and my panties will fit a little better. I can't judge my degree of stealth because I don't regularly ask people "hey do I pass?" All I know is everyone I interact with treats me as being female, I'm always addressed with feminine pronouns and "ma'am", "ms.", or other terms generally reserved for females. I have yet to have anyone question my presented gender, in public restrooms or anywhere else, so either every single person everywhere is just being incredibly accepting and considerate or else they just see another woman in the crowd.

[Julie Marie]

So Julie, would you say that the only difference in your categories is the amount of time it is sustainable?

Kristi

It doesn't matter what I think.  Only what you think.  Inside this thread, no one is wrong.

[Nero]

My thoughts on stealth would be - nobody knows (except those who birthed you) and nobody can find out (without hiring a PI).

[Blanche]

I don't believe that stealth has anything to do with being post-operative.  I was stealth to a certain extent long before I had GRS  My definition of Stealth has to do with being indistinguishable from other females in appearance, assimilation & history.  By history I mean any paper trails & documentation that could out you as trans.   Let me explain, as a woman that's had FFS I pass perfectly but if I were to apply for new employment, open an acct, buy a car, a home, my former identity (credit references, background) would be revealed in an instant with a big fat M.  Unfortunately I didn't transition until I was 28 & I had some history as my former identity.  By that scenario I'm not completely stealth in Switzerland (my native country), but where I live now there's no paper documentation that could link me to a former identity, so here I'm wholly stealth.

[Butterfly]

My definition of Stealth has to do with being indistinguishable from other females in appearance, assimilation & history.

That would be my own definition too.

[Dianna]

I have never used this "stealth" word at all regarding my post-op self.

[Northern Jane]

I see "stealth" as an intermediate step between "passing" and assimilation.

"Passing" is (in my perception) when you are deliberately creating a false impression. I.E. your male, a guy, but passing as female on a superficial level (appearance, mannerisms, voice) and you know you are male. It is a put-on, an act.

"Stealth" (to me) is more like you have had SRS, you believe you are a woman and act like a woman most of the time but you have this dirty little secret that you are slipping by everyone, except maybe those you feel need to know.

Beyond that is assimilation. You are so totally and completely integrated into womanhood that there is nothing else, anything else is incomprehensible - it is all just easy and natural all the time.

[Krissy_Australia]

Stealth to me is when I am identified (with out a doubt) as a woman in normal everyday activities amoungst strangers and when my friends find it hard to believe that I was ever a guy. Can some one tell me when a transition ends because I believe it never does

[Dianna]

Stealth to me is when I am identified (with out a doubt) as a woman in normal everyday activities amoungst strangers and when my friends find it hard to believe that I was ever a guy. Can some one tell me when a transition ends because I believe it never does

I have never thought about when a transition ends.  Away from this forum, I never think about the subject as I conduct my life.

[Krissy_Australia]

I struggle with the term transition. Our personalities are always evolving so I sought of regard transition as moving onto something else in our lifes. In a transgender term would it mean your transition end when you regard yourself as stealth

[Cindy]

Is stealth active or passive? Does a person practice stealth in order to hide something, or does a person accept stealth with the knowledge there may be something to be found out about them; if a third party explores enough?

Do you accept yourself or do you hope others accept you?

Interesting topic and concept. I presume we are discussing this in relevance to gender. But it exists universally in all people. How many dirty little secrets have come out from politicians, kidnappers & rapists etc that have tried to live a stealthly life. BTW just picking on groups at random. I believe it was a USA president (can't remeber who) who said I smoked pot but never inhaled. Another stealthy secret?

How many pretend doctors, surgeons have lived and worked without any qualifications.

Possibly stealth is a normal part of life. We all have secrets. Some big some small.

I'm increasingly coming to the notion that my secret is rather small in the scheme of things. I hope I keep going that way.


Or is stealth a form of acceptance? I am what I am, don't look to deeply?

Cindy,

[Dianna]

I struggle with the term transition. Our personalities are always evolving so I sought of regard transition as moving onto something else in our lifes. In a transgender term would it mean your transition end when you regard yourself as stealth

You are right Krissy, it's just a term I use and really don't think about.

I have never used the word "stealth" and am not likely to.