Third Gender Designation?

[heatherrose]

A question I have been asking myself of late is, while it seems a godsend
that more information, support and opportunity are available, through the ever
shrinking world of the internet, I wonder if this long sought after period of public
daylight is not a double edged sword for those of us who have waited so long for
the coast to be clear, allowing us to expose our inner most secret selves.

I have noticed that in the larger metropolitan areas because of
familiarity that the populous has in dealing with and being exposed to people
of variant gender, it is extremely difficult for a late transitioner to meld into a
crowd. With the advent of this new age of information, being available to the
more rural areas, this problem seems compounded. There is not a day that goes
by, where a story pertaining to issues of gender is not spread around the
world at lighting speed, bringing to light cues for all to use when judging
an individual's gender, cues which those who are blessed with the
opportunity of early transition, are able to avoid developing.

While a binary gender system is not ideal for nor desired by all,
for those who do wish to assimilate into one gender or the other, it seems
it is becoming increasing more difficult to do so. Are those who transiton late
destined to be relegated to a soon to be established third gender? Is it possible
that if or when a third gender category where established, due to possible
availablity of early transitioners medical information, would it follow
that they would eventually be relegated to it also?

In a perfect beautiful world, as with issues of race, gender identification
and/or orientation, would matter no more that hair color. Perhaps one day
that vision will evolve into reality but in all honesty, I do not foresee it coming
to be, in my lifetime nor in the lifetimes of those currently afforded the opportunity
to transition early. In the meantime how do we deal with the possibility of
becoming a member of a third gender? Do we resign ourselves to an
inevitability of becoming a tolerated society anomaly, allowing
ourselves to be shoved into a box with a brand new label or do
we continue to struggle in vain, bloodying ourselves further?

[Janet_Girl]

I have read your post, Hon.  And to a point, yes we are now a third gender.  Despised by some, tolerated by others.  But I really think most don't really care.  Live and Let Live.

To the ones that despise us, they hate any one that does not follow their way.  We are not their kind of 'normal'.  But neither are migrant farm workers, any one who just looks strange or any one who is not their skin color.  It is called bigotry and it comes in all forms.

The ones that just tolerate us, they tolerate anyone who is different.  As long as those tolerated don't infer or disrupt their little lives, that is OK.

But most could care less about who we are.  Oh they may chuckle if they read you.  They might even say something to their friends.  A few might even ask about you, to your face.  But most just don't care that much.

If we become that 'Third gender', who really sives a get.  As long as we are not harassed, discriminated against, attacked in any fashion, or not allowed to live our lives, work our jobs or live in our homes; would that really be so bad.  In India and other countries, we are a third gender and some times even revered.

We are just now, IMHO, facing what our African-American brothers and sisters faced during the civil rights movement.  Facing the same things that women faced in the Suffragette Movement and later during the Feminist Movement.  Facing the same things our Gay and Lesbian brother and sisters have faced since Stonewall and Harvey Milk.  we are coming into our own, day by day, story by story, state by state. 

Us older transitioners may have a harder time than our younger brothers and sisters, but age has a way of just being.  I am happy to becoming into my own as a woman.  I may never see the time when we are accepted as just another person, but then again ask some one who lived thru the civil rights movement; "will there ever be a black man in the Oval Office?'  They would probable say "no".  But we have Barack Obama now, President of the United States, who is an African-American.  One day we will have a woman president, and maybe even a Gay president.  And dare I say it?  A Transsexual president?

We are coming into our own, step bt step, day by day, story by story.


Janet

[K8]

Well, Heather, I too read your post and just didn't know what to respond.  I thought about it all day yesterday and still don't have good conclusions.

(I know what you mean about non-response, though.  Sorry. )

I don't think there will be a third gender designation.  At a database class in the early 90s, the instructor was a jerk.  He claimed we could use only one bit to designate sex (either/or).  Since there are at least three alternatives – male, female, unknown – I knew that was wrong.  But then he said that the state of California prison system uses 17 (I think) gender designations and isn't that ridiculous.

It wasn't the place for me to ask him what do you do with a pre-op MtF transsexual who can't pass as male anymore – throw her in with the convicted rapists and child-molesters?  As Kate I probably would have made a point of it anyway, but I used to be a lot quieter.

I spent the day yesterday in a neighboring town where people don't know me.  I ate at a restaurant and shopped for clothes.  Everyone treated me as a woman.  (I am a woman.)  I saw several women who may have been trans but probably weren't.  The thing is, unless we fall under some crazy system like the Nazis, where we would have to wear identifying armbands, how would people know? 

There are perennial and persistent threads about passing.  Passing is easier for some of us than for others.  Passing is also easier the longer we live full-time.  And I really have my doubts that complete stealth is even possible.  But I'm not sure that is really the issue.

I struggled for quite a while with the question of whether I'm a woman or a pretend-woman.  I've finally come to the conclusion that I am a woman despite some markers to the contrary.  (Unfortunately, I still have male genitals, and I probably have XY chromosomes – I never checked.)  Am I recognized as being trans when I live my life as a woman?  Probably, but I don't know.  Other than the people who remember me from before, I just can't tell whether people see me as a somewhat masculine-looking woman or as trans.  And I really don't care as long as they treat me as human.

I live in a little Podunk town on the edge of nowhere, so I don't have the experience of doing this in a metropolitan area.  But I've spent some time in the metropolitan areas and have found things little different from here (except people aren't as friendly as here).  Do you really think that most people who see you are trying to determine if you are trans?  And if they think you are trans (determining it in their own minds but may or may not be right), do you think they care that much?

I don't know, Heather.  I just don't see it.  (But I can be oblivious and tend to be rather naïve.)  I'd like to see some other opinions, but this question may be too tough.

Take care, sweetie.

- Kate
Post Merge: October 28, 2009, 11:48:39 AM
OK.  I'll try to be more coherent.

I think we are in a time of great social change.  As in any period like this, there are those who go along with it – even push it along – and those who resist it.

I think what is happening is that society's view of gender is becoming more fluid.  People are coming to realize that you don't have to stay in the gender you were assigned at birth.  As TG people become more common-place, they (we) become more acceptable.  As the kids wear more androgynous clothes and seem to switch presentation at will, society begins to realize gender is not immutable.  As questions like that of the South African runner come up, where a panel of experts couldn't decide whether she is really female, people realize sex and gender are far more complex than previously thought.

I don't think late transitioners have it any easier or harder than early ones – the issues are different is all.  (And gradually, the backlog will get cleared out and there won't be many late transitioners.)  Those who, for one reason or another, forever seem to be recognized as transsexual will become accepted just as it becomes understood that some people have to transition.  I see us heading toward acceptance, not toward the requirement that we wear one mask instead of the other.

How soon before we will see the Promised Land I don't know, but we are MUCH better off now than ten years ago and that was MUCH better than 20 years ago.  We'll get there.

- Kate

[FairyGirl]

The anti-hate crimes bill which includes gender expression was signed into national law today by the first black president of the United States. The minorities in this country have become the majority, much to the dismay of all those angry white male Republicans. Can you imagine what it would be like if someone like Huckabee had actually been elected?

I choose to see the glass half-full on this. I think Kate is right, things are better today than they used to be. I see these steps forward as good signs.

[heatherrose]

Undoubtedly, the state of being for a person of variant gender is
better than they were twenty years ago and (hopefully) not as good as
they will be twenty years from now. I guess what I am musing about is,
my realization that prior to transition, everything that I built my life upon
and the reason I made most of the decisions that I did, were based upon
the fallacy that I had to present to society as a male. Now that I have
finally come to terms with "Me", I must come to terms with society.

[K8]

Heather,
I spent much of my life trying to figure out how I fit into society.  Now I know: as a trans-woman.  I find I am less concerned about fitting in than I used to be, perhaps because I finally know who I am and finally seem to fit.  And I have had surprisingly good luck fitting in as I am.  If you are in a place – geographically, socially, psychologically – where that isn't the case, then it will be a lot harder on you than it has been on me. 

I have had several people tell me that it has been easy to accept me and what I am doing because it is obvious I am much more comfortable with myself than I had been.  This is what has worked for me, but, as I am periodically reminded of on these boards, what worked for me won't necessarily work for someone else.

If we are very lucky, life is a journey toward wholeness and fulfillment.

*hugs*
Kate