Really, How Hard Is It To Change the Tide of Thinking?

[Julie Marie]

When I read articles about the reactions to gay marriage voting results I found myself pretty shocked at how so many people are still against gay marriage.  Then I started going back and looking at commonly held misconceptions that led to oppression, denial of civil rights, imprisonment, hatred and death.

The Inquisition, a Roman Catholic tribunal for discovery and punishment of heresy, resulted in the torture and death of millions.  Just because you spoke against commonly held beliefs.

Slavers believed people with black skin were like animals and could be one's property.

Hitler waged a campaign convincing his followers that Jews were going to ruin society.

And now we have people believing gays and lesbians will cause the moral decay of our society.

It's all based in ignorance.  People just want someone to tell them what is true and what is not.  They don't want to bother to educate themselves.

Then someone comes along to raise awareness, a law gets passed or some tragedy happens and society now has to deal with the truth.  But it seems it takes decades for that truth to become common knowledge.  While watching the movie "Milk", which took place in the 70's, I thought, "Nothing's really changed.  Everything he's fighting for we're still fighting for."

How long does it really take to change the tide of thinking?  Is it based on powerful people resisting the truth, resisting change, or is your average person so set in his or her ways that they resist on their own? 

I don't know.

Julie

[lisagurl]

And now we have people believing gays and lesbians will cause the moral decay of our society.

The gay pride parades do not help. The majority of voters are voting against lewd behavior in public. It does not help demanding a religious word of marriage for equal contract rights under law either.

The plan should first be change the government legal word from marriage to partner contract. That way both gays and straight people would have the same legal laws. Allow the church to use the word marriage that way people who have the church perform the wedding could have two certifications just like the birth certificate and a baptismal certificate.

Then include a clause about lewd sexual behavior in public for both hetero and homo. If things are approached that way you would win through compromise rather than force.
Post Merge: November 06, 2009, 09:34:44 AM

Is it based on powerful people resisting the truth, resisting change,

No, it is based on the voting public experience with lewd behavior on the streets.

[tekla]

I agree with changing the government use of the word, and I think that any two people ought be able to enter into such a contract with or without sex being part of the deal. 

Lewd behavior, don't people get arrested for that in your neck of the woods?  I betcha' they do.  Out here, not so much.  Different standards.  I don't see how any of that plays into an argument about contracts and property.

[Flan]

==Opinion ahead==

I think alot of it has to do with herd mentality, in that most humans are initially neutral but are easily influenced by people who are either charismatic (the trait of many of the "leaders" of countries, for good or bad) or who reinforce so called "traditional values" (which is a classic case of passing down an idea that can be either good or bad depending on the affect it has on the rights of others) which in either way amounts to a case of the average person offloading the task of making an informed decision upon another whom while may have "good" intent, if taken at face value, may have far reaching consequences that self propagandize after being told enough times. (or, the "because the bible says so" argument)

Whatever the case, it's easy to depersonalize something or someone that one doesn't have to deal with until it affects them directly (cue grief process) and forces the affected to make a hard decision to either learn about what's happening and accept or reject based on a solid foundation of the subject in hand, or continue the path of ignorance in fear of what happens next. (cue the pill scene from The Matrix)

[Julie Marie]

I think that any two people ought be able to enter into such a contract with or without sex being part of the deal. 

On a Yahoo Buzz site (http://buzz.yahoo.com/article/1:y_news:8b026920dfcfd80c7189e5e8f7b18ff6/Dejection-fills-ballroom-after-gay-marriage-vote-AP) I was amazed at how many homophobic people focused on anal sex as why gay marriage shouldn't be legal.

"Caution: Dirty little minds at work"

Julie

[juliekins]

And straight people don't do anal? Puuulleeeeeeezzzz. I'll bet there are probably a million straight anal videos in circulation by now.

Oh, that's right, one man, one woman and anything is permissible. Plus, they have (in some cases) a license (marriage) from the government that says anything is legal now. How many times have we heard that straights are just obeying God's law since procreation leads to children? I don't know how anal fit's into that picture!

It all comes down to the fact that the majority should not have the right to outlaw the rights of the minority. Can I still get a fishing license if I'm gay??

[lisagurl]

And straight people don't do anal? Puuulleeeeeeezzzz.

Married 29 years and had several partners in my 60 years and never even thought or wanted to try it.

[AmySmiles]

I honestly think a lot of the opposition is because most people still think it's a choice. 

-For example, in that Alaska demonstration thread (here) if you follow the picture link, there is a sign at the bottom right of the 5th picture down... "I was born Asian, You choose to be gay." 
-When the staunchly anti-gay people refer to it, they often use the term "lifestyle choice." 
-My officemate's daughter at work has several gay friends, and she often says her husband strongly believes it's a choice and that is why he doesn't like them. 

I'm sure I could come up with many more examples, but I see it everywhere and I'm convinced it's the mainstream view.

That said, I believe there are two things that could change the thinking in this country.  One is for most people to actually know a gay/trans person and realize "Hey, wow, they're just like us".  Another is for there to be proof of a physical cause from a reputable source.  As long as they go along thinking we're just bad people, they will feel justified in shunning us perverts and devil-worshippers. (yeah, that last part was tongue in cheek  )