Having your tits objectified.

[Silver]

I'd tell them..
"ewwwwwwww! you want that? I don't! let's go cut it and give it to you.. creep!"

Actually, I did that. I offered to send him the tissue in a jar when I got a chance to chop 'em off.

*This is how I coped with boobs -- i decided that they were actually Superheroes from an alien planet who had taken refuge in my chest due to finding Earth's atmosphere hostile.  When I was about twenty (when they seriously went up from G to K for no explicable reason and just stayed there), they received a signal from their home planet that not only served as a homing beacon, but also gave them enough ultraviolet protection to make their way home safely through the current atmosphere, but couldn't find their way out of my chest.  By having surgery, i was saving some small distant planet by returning their only hope for survival.

That's awesome. I wish I was that creative, lol.

[Myself]

Okay, so you wanted boobs, naturally you'd prefer for them to be appreciated. I do not want my boobs. I HATE them. Do you have a penis, or stubble, that you feel the need to shave off/hide when you wear dresses or whatever? What would you do, how would you feel if someone was trying to look through your dress/around your collar to stare at it and look for it, as a 'sign' of your natal sex, even when it's put away/shaved off? Trying to see it under your clothes? Got upset when you shaved or tucked because you're taking those things away from plain view? Then getting mad at you if you felt upset about this obsessing?

Cairus , you are absolutely right, I am sure Mary just forgot her place or didn't read everything.

I *HATE* facial hair (on me).
Having a male sexual organ is just disgusting me.

I can easily relate to what you're saying, I could just copy paste your post here, put it on the MTF forum, change it to penis or facial hair (penis is probably more sensitive) and it'll be JUST the same.

Only difference is that for you it is even harder!!! breasts are just in the front of everything.
We can laser hair, even hide it with make up.. but breasts for you are just big ugly blobs of fat attached to your body and hindering you.

You will get them removed, just wait for it

But do think if your boyfriend is the right guy, will he really like you as a man of your breasts are so important to him? or when you face changes (did you start hrt yet?) your voice is no longer "cute, soft and high" and your facial hair grows?

He might just lose attraction and you find he is not the right man for you, maybe he is just another stereotype when it comes to what he loves.

You might want to stay with him until that happens if you are feeling ok with him, but you will probably need to be ready for what might happen later.

As for not staying the night just because of binding.
People who know who you are will almost always have some thoughts in the back of the head.
Again, ALMOST all. So if you can enjoy a night with friends, who know you, don't get too excited because of your breasts, just have fun.
As they get to know you better they will learn not to comment about it because it hurts you.

Will they ever just accept you and not say anything because they understand you? I dunno.

One of the things I told my parents when I said I want FFS is that "I don't WANT being 'ACCEPTED'! that's the worse thing I could want. I want to be ME and no one to *NEED* to 'ACCEPT' ME, just be me, myself.. where there is nothing to accept because it is obvious who I am"

That will only happen when we are "there" and probably *RARELY* with people who already know us.
I am sure you wish you could have been born just a *normal* boy like I want to have been born just like pretty much any other girl.

We don't want to be seen (or TO BE) transmen and transwomen. We want to be men and women and we will get there, so cheer up
Post Merge: November 20, 2009, 06:26:59 AM
I missed your reply for my previous post.

Where you said he generally understands what's happening and everything.

So you can probably pretty much take ignore or take everything I said regarding that guy loving you differently in this one.

But you do need to be sure still, he might believe it but not be able to come up with it later, when the changes happen.

[Radar]

It sounds to me like your boyfriend is heterosexual or is bi but leans more towards liking women. The fact he calls them boobs makes me think he sees you as a woman first, then a man next. He's trying to see you as a man first but it's hard for him to do so, even if subconsciously.

Us hetero guys like to look at boobs and butts... it's just how we are. I catch myself doing it all the time and not realising it until after the fact. If he identifies as liking women better then it's natural for him to want to look. The fact you are really flat to begin with and he still stares is odd. If someone has no boobs I don't bother looking or staring.

My point is it's unfair to expect him to change his likes just for you. It's not fair to you or him. He says he'll love you even after you get farther into transition. Yet, from hearing from alot of other transguys, once you progress farther into transition it just becomes to much for the partner (male or female). There are relationships that survive through it, but I get the impression that's not the norm.

I'm not trying to be a downer for you, I just want you to know a possibility of where your relationship might go. Then again, I could be completely wrong about everything.

[Cairus]

It sounds to me like your boyfriend is heterosexual or is bi but leans more towards liking women. The fact he calls them boobs makes me think he sees you as a woman first, then a man next. He's trying to see you as a man first but it's hard for him to do so, even if subconsciously.

Us hetero guys like to look at boobs and butts... it's just how we are. I catch myself doing it all the time and not realising it until after the fact. If he identifies as liking women better then it's natural for him to want to look. The fact you are really flat to begin with and he still stares is odd. If someone has no boobs I don't bother looking or staring.

My point is it's unfair to expect him to change his likes just for you. It's not fair to you or him. He says he'll love you even after you get farther into transition. Yet, from hearing from alot of other transguys, once you progress farther into transition it just becomes to much for the partner (male or female). There are relationships that survive through it, but I get the impression that's not the norm.

I'm not trying to be a downer for you, I just want you to know a possibility of where your relationship might go. Then again, I could be completely wrong about everything.

He's a hetero leaning bisexual, so there's no need for you to speculate his sexuality for me. It's possible that when it comes to being with me when the physical aspects of manhood become part our lives that his fairytale world of loving me for 'who I am' will break apart, and I'm pretty much expecting that to happen. I'm not naive, so don't worry, you don't need to 'break the bad news that hasn't happened yet' to me. I'm obviously dealing with the precursors to it right now, with the whole tits issue.

So, tell me, if 'you hetero guys like to look at boobs and butts', do you/did you enjoy spending time ogling yourself in the mirror and groping your own boobs? I mean, you're a hetero guy, and you 'like boobs and butts', so you should like yours, too, right? Or wait, is there some kind of special difference for your own, perhaps something to do with being transsexual? If you don't like and fetishize your own, then why not? It's just boobs and ass, right? So you would, I mean, considering how you hetero men 'just can't help yourselves' and there is no difference who it is or what it means.

[Myself]

Cairus, I know it's hard for you right now but there is no need to get upset on Radar.

Gynecomastia is one of the most embarrassing things in the eyes of men, normal men too, you know, the type that doesn't have "the dysphoria" and never had breasts before.

There is still a chance your boyfriend will still love you after that and since you are already prepared for what might happen, remember that you can keep on until then and hope the good things will happen and not the bad thing which might happen.

When can you start taking testosterone? how old are you?

[Cairus]

Cairus, I know it's hard for you right now but there is no need to get upset on Radar.

Gynecomastia is one of the most embarrassing things in the eyes of men, normal men too, you know, the type that doesn't have "the dysphoria" and never had breasts before.

There is still a chance your boyfriend will still love you after that and since you are already prepared for what might happen, remember that you can keep on until then and hope the good things will happen and not the bad thing which might happen.

When can you start taking testosterone? how old are you?

Hun, he thinks he's encouraging me to think about something as if I haven't thought about it. We're all entitled to our different ways of handling things, but telling me, 'omg, you shouldn't expect any better from us, how dare you expect us to not automatically obsess with all boobs regardless of how inappropriate it is. Also, hate to break it to you, but in case you haven't heard, your relationship is doomed' and speculating about my own boyfriend's sexual orientation for me on top of that, as if it is some kind of mystery? It may be childish of me to want to share the joy of Pointing Things Out to him, but I think him telling me to blindly accept immature behavior that robs me of respect without even bothering to ask for consideration is hurtful and poorly thought-out. I could be a cisgendered woman, it would not be unreasonable of me, even then, to request a couple more ounces of respect regarding how I'm treated for having tits. You'd think other guys would've caught wind of this grand news by now, especially ones that just so happen to be female.

My own father has admitted to being puzzled as to why this would happen, because, 'Child, don't take this the wrong way, but you don't even have any tits. Mine are bigger than yours. I'm pretty sure his are bigger than yours. Does he stare all day in the mirror, too?' For the record, his  arebigger than mine.

I know there's still an unlikely chance, that's why I'm still here trying. I can't just throw this relationship away because we don't automatically see eye to eye, that isn't how it works, of course not.  No one is born and grows up 'perfect', and nothing 'perfect' will fall into our laps; life is a delicate process of pushing and pulling, and from what I can tell, this relationship is something that's very important to him, even if evidence seems contrary due to being under-informed or moments of thoughtlessness. I can't just be like 'sorry bro' and throw him away for someone more 'trans-sensitive' because he doesn't know any better. That's why I started this thread asking for advice/suggestions/encouragement, so hopefully it's apparent that there is some give on my part, even about something very painful and personal to me.

I turned 20 a couple months ago. I've been in weekly therapy for one month now, to get a letter for HRT, so hopefully I'll be starting hormones sometime within the next several months. Anyway, thanks for trying to mitigate, Myself. If anything, Radar's admonishment has worked as reverse psychology on me being too nervous to ask for some basic dignity, so thanks for that.

[Myself]

It's good to hear that you are still going to try, I think you are making the right choice.
No one should expect anyone to just "know" what's going in our heads or how to behave properly in many situations, not just dysphoria related.

I hope your relationship will turn for the best It does seem as he is trying, if as you said - he wanted to talk about it later (and he doesn't out you and everything else).

Good luck!

[Alex_C]

Yeah I  think your BF is incurably str8 dude.

I'm in incurable Top, and I'm attracted to femininity/submissiveness in a partner, so any FTM I'm with would have to be a real twinky type - funny how many exist though lol. If I were with someone who was becoming more masculine, my sexual interest in them would decrease, although hopefully we'd still be friends.

[Cairus]

Yeah I  think your BF is incurably str8 dude.

I'm in incurable Top, and I'm attracted to femininity/submissiveness in a partner, so any FTM I'm with would have to be a real twinky type - funny how many exist though lol. If I were with someone who was becoming more masculine, my sexual interest in them would decrease, although hopefully we'd still be friends.

Haha, when him and I met, he couldn't tell which gender I was, so the guy was walking around referring to me as ''em', ''im' and 'they/them'. (Always funny what people come up with when they're not comfortable with either 'him' or 'her'. So my natal sex came to him as a surprise to start with, either way.) I've come to the conclusion that I'm more androgynous in appearance/manner. I've been told, 'You're either a really ugly girl or the prettiest boy I've seen!' (Ehh??)

Anyway, he may be attracted to femininity, but I am, too, and he's pretty damn feminine himself. The thing is, no matter how 'feminine' or 'masculine' I'm perceived to be, I'm still not going to appreciate anyone obsessing with my tits. It's confusing as hell, 'cause he likes the c*ck, which I don't really have one of my own yet(grr!), and he likes the tits, which I'm looking to get rid of ASAP(GRR! LOL!). Maybe we're just sexually doomed. XP

The thing is Alex(my name is Alex, too ), I've found that I'm actually way more comfortable being feminine when I'm the most confident in my identity as a man. Does that make any sense? As my need to defend my gender identity wanes, I can exhibit a more relaxed attitude toward my gender expression. I think at this point in time I'm more hyper-vigilant toward my own feminine behavior/appearance due to being so incredibly uncomfortable in my body.

[YoungSoulRebel]

The problem is, he is your boyfriend, he is a guy. OF COURSE he will LOVE breasts.

Way to broad-brush.  I've dated guys who weren't into breasts.