Susan's Place Logo

News:

According to Google Analytics 25,259,719 users made visits accounting for 140,758,117 Pageviews since December 2006

Main Menu

A question about coping for those who will not live full time

Started by Just Kate, November 30, 2009, 12:35:02 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Cindy Stephens

Naari,
The fact that limited expression didn't work for you is, well, just that- it didn't work for YOU.  The fact that it does work for some of us doesn't mean we identify as crossdressers.  Darn, it makes me mad when that term gets bandied about in a pejorative way.  You did however, mention that it did seem to work for you for 20 years.  I would never allow limited expression to turn me into a "twisted version" of who I really am.  I take a serious hormone regimen "full time"  so I certainly don't feel like I am part time.  I simply interact with the work-a-day world presenting male, with breasts.  Otherwise as fem.  It works for me.  It just sounds as if you have made a decision to transition, fine.  That is your experience and your decision.  There are plenty of other boards on this site that support you.  This board is for people trying to find, for whatever reason, a middle ground that works for them. I think that someone deciding to keep their family together as more important to transitioning doesn't make them Part time or one of those dreaded ->-bleeped-<-s.  It just means that they have different issues and put different weights to the importance of those issues.  It isn't a contest, not right vrs wrong, just different people dealing with the same problems in different ways. 
  •  

Naari

Quote from: Cindy Stephens on January 09, 2011, 10:57:03 AM
Naari,
The fact that it does work for some of us doesn't mean we identify as crossdressers.  Darn, it makes me mad when that term gets bandied about in a pejorative way.

I never said that it doesn't work for some. I said it didn't work for me. I also didn't use 'crossdresser' in a negative connotation or suggest that anyone else identifies as one.

Quote from: Cindy Stephens on January 09, 2011, 10:57:03 AM
I think that someone deciding to keep their family together as more important to transitioning doesn't make them Part time or one of those dreaded ->-bleeped-<-s.  It just means that they have different issues and put different weights to the importance of those issues.  It isn't a contest, not right vrs wrong, just different people dealing with the same problems in different ways. 

I never said one way was right or wrong. Never did I use the term ->-bleeped-<-. Nor dreaded. Keeping a family together is very important.
  •  

Suzy Johnson

This tread is possibly one of the most interesting and thought invoking that I have ever had the pleasure of reading. It is also helping me understand my past and what I went through with GID in my youth up until the very recently. In the last four months, I have begun a low dose of Estrogen and the calming effect has been miracle for me and ease the feelings of GID completely. I am also experiencing physical changes as expected therefrom, which also have been very satisfying to say the least.

This subject, as I see it is a very complex one and effects everyone differently, but I believe we all share one thing in common. Please forgive me for over simplifying it in the following manner, because I understand how serious this is, but its if we are all like superman, or superwomen (which ever applies) and we are trust on this earth as Clark Kent. We are raised as Clark Kent everyone knows us only that way, but inside we know we are different, I use the 'super' analogy because I think we are all "super special"  and until you understand how special you are and accept yourself, whether you decide to transition or not makes little difference if your not happy inside.

Just think of the good folks that have gone all the way with transition and very successfully I might add, only to have regret latter and now feel that they have to de-transition. White meat or dark, Its my opinion until one can accept one's self and all conditions that come with our "super special" character (GID included) you can not truly call yourself successful.  Learn to love yourself and embrace your uniqueness your given path will be discovered by you

Peace and Love

Suzy Johnson
  •  

Cindy Stephens

Hey Suzy,
I agree about self acceptance and think most on this thread have it.  That is very different from just being aware of the problems with day to day living as a transsexual.  For some it is their religion,  others their family.  Luckily, I don't have problems with either of those.  Money/jobs seems to be key for me.  Many of the successful transitioners at this site seem to have jobs and careers that allow it as part of the culture.  I have seen a number who work at companies that have employee handbooks that claim acceptance, then find other reasons to fire them.  Lack of income can put pressure on the best marriages. That is what holds me back.  My wife and I are just too old to transition seamlessly (though my personal belief is that few do), but we are just a little too young to retire.  That is not to far off now.  The question is how to enjoy who I am, stay sane, while keeping enough of a facade to "fool" the rest in the work-a-day- world.  A juggling act to be sure, but hey, I am woman!
It sounds as if you are in some similar situation, finding a way to integrate all aspects of your life?
  •  

Suzy Johnson

I understand Cindy, thank you for pointing this out. The problems associated are as varied as the clouds in the sky and some have a much less difficult time than others because of there circumstances (blessings). Yes, currently I am trying very hard to integrate all aspects in my life and have done much soul searching as of late too, and I think I have it narrowed down to a single major factor for the time being.

It has to do with my business and where I want to be financially before I fully transition. Otherwise I am mentally ready and will not let anything stand in the my way, regardless of what others might think.
  •  

japple

Quote from: Randi on January 08, 2011, 05:14:14 PM
I too have had the experience with estrogen taking away my dysphoria and confusion.

Serious question for people who say that HRT has had an effect.  Do you think it's the chemical effect of estrogen or the fact that you are transitioning?  I ask because coming out and being willing to transition had a tremendous effect.  The world of possibility and the melting shame over the secret was huge.  I am not completely comfortable, but much much better off than in the past. 
  •  

Just Kate

Quote from: japple on January 09, 2011, 07:33:14 PM
Serious question for people who say that HRT has had an effect.  Do you think it's the chemical effect of estrogen or the fact that you are transitioning?  I ask because coming out and being willing to transition had a tremendous effect.  The world of possibility and the melting shame over the secret was huge.  I am not completely comfortable, but much much better off than in the past.

When I transitioned, I was taking E.  The dysphoria went away.  I assumed back then it was because I was transitioning.  Flash forward 10 years:  I started taking E again, the dysphoria went away and in no way was I transitioning.  I figure it does have an effect though for the life of me I have no idea what, if it effects everyone or just some people etc.  I only even tried estrogen again after all these years because the trans people I know who are not transitioning and are older all seem to take it.  I wanted to test it out for myself and found its effects awesome.

It should be noted though that I'm not on it now but I've also removed several primary GID triggers from my life that were still there back when I started it.  Being on E allowed me the clarity of mind (a break from my GID) long enough to see what triggers still remained.
Ill no longer be defined by my condition. From now on, I'm just, Kate.

http://autumnrain80.blogspot.com
  •  

Just Kate

Quote from: Naari on January 09, 2011, 05:26:14 AM
I allowed myself limited expression for 20 years. Each small step did help to decrease my overall anxiety and feelings of hopelessness but it was only a temporary fix. After the feeling of accomplishment and relief subsided, I often found myself left with an even more intense desire to transition. After exhausting practically every form of 'limited expression' that exists there was nothing left for me to do short of rot away or transition. I do think that limited expression should be explored if it has not. I also think that each case is unique and what may not work for one, may work well for another. In my case, it was only a matter of time before this form of coping had completely exhausted itself. Besides only being a temporary fix, I began to increasingly feel that these limited forms of expression were creating a false sense of who I really was. I was attempting to cope with something I felt was inevitable but impossible.

I became a twisted version of who I really was. I tried vehemently to identify as a 'crossdresser' or 'part time' but I could never assimilate this into my brain. It ultimately caused me even more confusion and pain. After many years, I was left with a feeling of emptiness and isolation. I was living underneath the largest weight I could ever imagine. It took a lot of courage and determination to move that weight off of me as it blocked my entire life and sense of who I was. The only thing that brought me out of that funk was to take control of the situation and express myself to the fullest. To limit my expression at that point was to die. I finally conquered my fears of transitioning, which were, in reality, the only thing blocking the rest of my life. Upon making that momentous decision, before even injecting the first shot of E, I was overtaken by such a sense of relief it is beyond words to try to explain. Finally it was over, so to speak. There have been new issues and problems to face upon making that decision, but they do not hold a candle to the weight that was suffocating me. I no longer have an issue with being who I am or doing what I feel is right for me. I am now in the process of transitioning, and while I am moving with a strong determination, it is no longer the focus of my life nor do I constantly battle with myself about what to do. I am finally proceeding with the rest of my life. A very interesting side effect of making that decision is that I no longer feel a desire to seek forms of limited expression, even though I am not yet living 'fulltime' by the most common interpretation of the phrase.

Thank you for your post Naari and welcome to Susan's.  Your story is an important one to tell: I have always felt that for some, limited expression can actually work against their coping methods.  It seems it did so with you and I've seen it with others.  For me, I present myself as socially androgynous and sometimes physically and this doesn't affect me negatively but really seems to help my dysphoria.  I know others who will wear clothing under their clothes and that seems to help them cope without making it worse.  I'm glad you told your story.  Are you expecting to transition fully (SRS, etc)?
Ill no longer be defined by my condition. From now on, I'm just, Kate.

http://autumnrain80.blogspot.com
  •  

Naari

Quote from: interalia on January 09, 2011, 10:37:15 PM
Thank you for your post Naari and welcome to Susan's.

Thank you for the welcome. I really appreciate it.  ;D

I found myself in a self-created prison but a real one nonetheless. I was free to explore myself as I wanted but there were no doors or windows. I tried to break out a couple times before but failed. I must have been subconsciously chiseling away because at the point I made the final, real decision to transition, the prison crumbled. The very next day, I came out to my friends/family and started presenting differently. I called my therapist and informed her of my decision. We talked a couple times, she faxed the letter to my doctor, I immediately made an appointment, got my scripts, and here I am. I will never again enter that hell of a prison that I created for myself. Sorry to blab before answering your question. I tend to do that sometimes (er.. a lot). I guess I feel like the more I reveal of myself, the more anyone that happens to read my posts will understand me. I am new here and the last thing I wish to do is piss anyone off. I have done enough of that over the last few years, as I became increasingly angry toward the end of my prison sentence. Usually with the ones that were closest to me, unfortunately.

I don't want anyone to think I am putting them in a negative light so I strive to relate my experience from the I perspective instead of saying we, us, them, they, etc. I am a being full of love and compassion for everyone. I wish everyone peace, love, happiness, and hormones. ;) That being said, I am not perfect, I make mistakes, and I sometimes may come across in a way that I didn't intend to. Forgive me if that occurs.

There are some that I will not hesitate to put in a negative light. Hate groups, hating individuals, and outright ignorance will not receive much positivity from me. I am committed to education, raising awareness and wiping out ignorance and hate. I have compassion for the ignorant, but I have a duty to fight oppression and hate of any sort.

Quote from: interalia on January 09, 2011, 10:37:15 PM
Are you expecting to transition fully (SRS, etc)?

Yes I plan to transition fully. There are things I feel I must do immediately, such as give these mones a bit of time to work and start electrolysis. I am comfortable waiting a bit for srs and ffs but I cannot say I will put them off forever and the time that I can put them off may be shorter than I imagine.

If I begin to think philosophically, which is like always.. On a deeply spiritual level, life is but a form of limited expression in itself. Now that I am out of my self-created prison, I can actually think freely and without restriction. I think the important thing is to be happy and comfortable. Whatever gets me there is what I must do. I am not so much focused on an end goal as I am happy to be moving freely now. To remain stagnant, for me, is to die.
  •  

Rebekah with a K-A-H

IA, I have found your posts, in this thread and in others, to be by turns challenging, fascinating, and thought-provoking, and it's always been your calm, rational, and intellectual approach that I've had most respect for.  There is one thing I don't quite understand about you, though.  Or perhaps "about you" is the wrong terminology; perhaps "with regards to your decisions" might be more accurate. I accept the general sentiment that transition is not for everyone, and, though I suppose I can't understand that decision, in the same fashion that cissexuals can't really understand the phenomenon of transsexuality or what it "feels" like, I can intellectually grasp that it can be the right choice for some under some circumstances.
But I admit I'm a little baffled when it comes to the story of you and your friend who got SRS. What was it about transition that dissuaded you then, at a time in your life when, as you stated, you represented a "poster child" of the movement, young and passable? Perhaps it's my own myopia that prevents me from understanding more clearly, but whence the dissatisfaction?
I apologize if I sound probing, and if you don't feel comfortable answering, by all means don't. I simply want to get to know more about what makes my favorite intellectual on this board tick.
  •  

CaitJ

Quote from: Rebekah with a K-A-H on January 10, 2011, 01:08:50 AM
But I admit I'm a little baffled when it comes to the story of you and your friend who got SRS. What was it about transition that dissuaded you then, at a time in your life when, as you stated, you represented a "poster child" of the movement, young and passable? Perhaps it's my own myopia that prevents me from understanding more clearly, but whence the dissatisfaction?

Personally, I don't think it was anything about transition that turned him off transition; religion turned him off transition.
Anyway, this talk of 'triggers' leaves a bad taste in my mouth - it's as though being female is something to feared, hated, railed against and avoided at all cost.
So I'll now leave the thread in peace.
  •  

japple

Quote from: Vexing on January 10, 2011, 02:34:01 AM
Personally, I don't think it was anything about transition that turned him off transition; religion turned him off transition.

That was the vibe I got. 

I've been interested in triggers since reading about them here and tried to see over the last couple of days if they made sense to me.  It seems like people call sexual excitement triggers?  I have a trigger...existence.  I'm not always depressed, but I'm always at odds with my gender even when very happy. I'm often very happy.

It seems kind of one-dimensional to me that GID means constant depression.  Put me in the body of an antelope and I'm going to try to be a good antelope.  Other antelope might think I'm a bit off and I probably want to be human again but I'm not going to lay around waiting to be eaten all the time.  There are probably some things i can do and enjoy regardless of whether I'm a human or antelope.

I'm annoyed by the constant distraction of my GID and the extreme discomfort I have with my body as it is.  The concept of triggers seem like emotional swings.
  •  

Randi

Japple, It's definately the effect of the meds. I ran a similar experiment to the one Interalia did and found it was not related to transition but the estrogen that does it for me. I am in a similar situation to Cindy in that I too am close to retirement age. What can I say except 'It works for me'.
Randi
  •  

japple

Quote from: Randi on January 10, 2011, 02:15:17 PM
Japple, It's definately the effect of the meds.

Cool, I have an appt with my doctor next week. I want focus.
  •  

Just Kate

Quote from: Rebekah with a K-A-H on January 10, 2011, 01:08:50 AM
IA, I have found your posts, in this thread and in others, to be by turns challenging, fascinating, and thought-provoking, and it's always been your calm, rational, and intellectual approach that I've had most respect for.  There is one thing I don't quite understand about you, though.  Or perhaps "about you" is the wrong terminology; perhaps "with regards to your decisions" might be more accurate. I accept the general sentiment that transition is not for everyone, and, though I suppose I can't understand that decision, in the same fashion that cissexuals can't really understand the phenomenon of transsexuality or what it "feels" like, I can intellectually grasp that it can be the right choice for some under some circumstances.
But I admit I'm a little baffled when it comes to the story of you and your friend who got SRS. What was it about transition that dissuaded you then, at a time in your life when, as you stated, you represented a "poster child" of the movement, young and passable? Perhaps it's my own myopia that prevents me from understanding more clearly, but whence the dissatisfaction?
I apologize if I sound probing, and if you don't feel comfortable answering, by all means don't. I simply want to get to know more about what makes my favorite intellectual on this board tick.

There is little I feel uncomfortable with even if it belittles me in the eyes of others.  You ask me why did I quit transition?  There are three primary reasons:  1) I felt deceitful, 2) I wanted to marry in my church, 3) I saw the pain of other TS.  That is the short version.  Here is the longer one.

The deceitful feelings came first.  When I started transition it was plain to see I was transgendered.  I'm tall, I have large hands, a big nose, and was not on estrogen long.  I very much wished I could pass physically so I worked at it and let hormones do the rest.  In time I began to be perceived by others as female.  As soon as this occurred I moved to a new place, a place no one knew me thinking I could move one step closer to being accepted as female.  It worked.  Unfortunately it had unintended side effects.  While I was accepted as female, I was also expected to have had the experiences of one.  Frankly I didn't have the experiences of being a young girl, but to maintain stealth I pretended to or just avoided the conversations altogether.  I didn't feel like I had anyone I could be real about my experiences with.  Sure I had my TS friends and they were great, don't get me wrong - but they were not able to help, rather they were bewildered I would feel bad after having acheived so much.  So day after day I lived my life, the life I'd always wanted and yet it felt hollow.

I started dating and was able to date a few guys - they knew about me, I told them ahead of time.  One I met online, one was openly gay - I met him through a TS friend of mine.  The first one lasted one date, I knew in spending time with him that he didn't want me as a girl, he wanted me as an object.  The second one... that was tragic.  I'd often go to his loft downtown where we'd spend a wonderful evening together - make dinner for one another and talk about each other's interests.  I felt so attracted to him and emboldened by the fact that he knew my past but didn't seem to care.  After a date, a wonderful date I had planned completely, we ate dinner and I asked him if our friendship could go any further.  He told me frankly that he had tried to envision the two of us together, that he liked me very much, but ultimately he could only see me as a girl regardless of what lay beneath my clothes.  He could not see me as anything but female, and he wasn't attracted to me physically even if he liked my personality.

I was devastated to say the least.  I cursed myself, my horrid condition and him because I had fallen for him hard.  We remained friends but a doubt began to grow that day I had never considered prior to transition.  I would have extreme difficulty finding someone to marry - a man who was straight who would accept me.  There was another consideration too.  As I began to ponder on these things I realized that I still believed in my old religion and I wanted to be married there, and if not married, I at least wanted to raise my children in the same tradition as my beliefs.  The more I considered the hopelessness of finding a suitable man, of finding one who would accept my religion, and finally of finding one who would allow me to raise children in such, the more depressed I became.

So yes, I had 'everything' but I lived in my life hopeless about my future and feeling hollow with the people in my present life.  I started to come out to those with whom I was stealth.  It felt awesome!  I felt like finally people who I cared about and who cared about me, really knew me!  I mean they still saw me as a girl, but as a girl with a different past and it was liberating.  This had an unexpected consequence too.  As I began to liberate myself more and more with people I trusted I asked myself, "Why didn't I do this as a male?  Maybe people would have understood, maybe I could have been real with them too and not been living a hollow male life."

For some time since having been involved in the community (not the internet but present members of the TS community) I noticed an intolerable amount of suffering.  So many had lost or given up all to pursue transition as it was, "the only way" to combat our GID.  I was one of the lucky one's - no doubt about that, but for so many others I saw continual pain.  They'd put on a brave face in the presence of new people, but when you got them alone, they came apart.  I began to feel like I shouldn't be so fortunate to have transitioned so easily, I began to feel guilty a little too.  I wished there were another way - not because I couldn't transition so much but because of how much pain and heartache it might save.  I felt motivated enough by this, in addition to my other disappointments to give being a male a go again but to do it differently this time, not hide so much, not live a hollow life, but to liberate myself with others despite living as a male.  This was additionally advantageous to me as I could make amends to my church as well - something that had previously been a great source of strength I felt I got far away from.

Well what I considered to be an experiment has turned into a lifestyle and I've learned a lot since then.  I have since broken ties with my church - our relationship has run its course, but I have benefited tremendously from the time I was there.  I wouldn't be who I am today without it.

I have yet to find the 'secret' to a successful life without transition but I am fortunate enough so as to not feel the terrible pain and anxiety associated with living as a male.  I wish the same for others who also do not wish to transition or haven't the means to do so successfully.  It is my goal and ambition to find another path so as more of us come of age there will be considerable information so we can make honest decisions for ourselves about what is the right choice for us.

I feel it must be said because I have been accused of this many times.  I would never deny the choice of others to transition - in fact for some it is the best option.  I just don't want it to be the "only" option - more research should go into alternative methods of treatment, and no I'm not talking about reparative or any other religious based therapy - I have never believed in those - ever.  We must accept who we are, what conditions we face, and take steps to live healthy productive lives - not lives of deceit.  I feel reparative therapy only allows one the opportunity to deceive oneself and we as humans are perfectly capable of doing that on our own without any outside help. ;)

I hope I've answered your questions, and I appreciate the compliments.  It is good to know I am being read by others and am making a positive impact.
Ill no longer be defined by my condition. From now on, I'm just, Kate.

http://autumnrain80.blogspot.com
  •  

CaitJ

Quote from: interalia on January 11, 2011, 12:36:27 AM
I have yet to find the 'secret' to a successful life without transition but I am fortunate enough so as to not feel the terrible pain and anxiety associated with living as a male.

You probably haven't found it because it doesn't exist.
I don't mean to belittle you, but far greater minds than yours have tried and failed.
  •  

Just Kate

Quote from: Vexing on January 11, 2011, 12:57:30 AM
You probably haven't found it because it doesn't exist.
I don't mean to belittle you, but far greater minds than yours have tried and failed.

Yes, this is likely true, there may never be a 'secret' to fixing GID, but the things I have learned have helped me immensely in coming to grips and coping with my GID.  So even if a complete cure doesn't exist, perhaps I will help to pioneer new forms of treatment and coping methods. 

Even if indeed I am the anecdote who happens to be the only person to benefit from my techniques then so be it, at least one person's life was made better, but I feel it far more likely there are others who will benefit as well.  As for far greater minds, I imagine they have more important things to worry about than alternative GID treatment methods - so I don't mind it being left to lesser minds like my own. ;)
Ill no longer be defined by my condition. From now on, I'm just, Kate.

http://autumnrain80.blogspot.com
  •  

Naari

Quote from: Vexing on January 11, 2011, 12:57:30 AM
You probably haven't found it because it doesn't exist.
I don't mean to belittle you, but far greater minds than yours have tried and failed.

A few great minds have tried and failed. Is this what leads you to believe that it doesn't exist? Do you have actual evidence that your first statement is a fact or is it your opinion?
  •  

CaitJ

Quote from: interalia on January 11, 2011, 01:11:08 AM
As for far greater minds, I imagine they have more important things to worry about than alternative GID treatment methods - so I don't mind it being left to lesser minds like my own. ;)

That's the thing about being trans, it doesn't discriminate between great minds and lesser minds. A lot of extremely smart people have tried to find ways of getting their dysphoria to go away, but no one has yet found a decent solution other than transition.
Wouldn't you rather that it was gone, instead of having to let it play you for the rest of your life?
  •  

CaitJ

Quote from: Naari on January 11, 2011, 01:15:02 AM
A few great minds have tried and failed. Is this what leads you to believe that it doesn't exist? Do you have actual evidence that your first statement is a fact or is it your opinion?

A few? Trans people didn't pop up in the 20th century.
My statements on here are always my opinion. Also, note my caveat of 'probably'.
My evidence is the fact that despite trans people being in existence for thousands of years, a solution other than some form of transition has not been found.
For my next trick, I'll prove that God doesn't exist, even though there's no evidence that he doesn't.
  •