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Can I ask you ladies a maybe ignorant question?

Started by Elijah3291, December 09, 2009, 04:19:13 PM

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0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Naturally Blonde

Quote from: Valeriedances on December 17, 2009, 08:58:38 PM
I have always thought that if someone enjoys their penis and using it sexually they were a boy ...or assumes a male role in that aspect, though they may have a feminine side and enjoy crossdressing. I have difficulty understanding it. Doesn't the image of a hard penis strike you as a male symbol? When a TG person I meet asks me out and makes it clear they want sex using their penis, I can't help but think boy. I guess I am putting too much of an emphasis on genitals and sexuality. I do love penises, but not on me.

I apologize for my ignorance and do not wish to offend anyone. I realize there is a wide spectrum and not everyone is the same. I seem stuck in my binary thinking.

I absolutely agree with everything you say Valerie and feel exately the same about this subject.
Living in the real world, not a fantasy
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Brittani A.

I can identify with that not even knowing at first what transexualism was at first. I had three phsychiatrists and one doctor tell me I was definate and so I researched it and joined chat rooms the minute i did i felt at home and all i ever did fell into place inc. the orgasms and sexual stuff that really took a back seat in my life since then although as i stated before sure i like an orgasm but they are far and few between and not so prominent in my life and see myself on a different mental almost emotional level too. So as I was shown that I did not think like males do and never did it did not surprise me why all of my relationships failed and I had no children or girlfreinds in that capacity. When I told others that I was transgender I had many girlfriends suddenly become freinds and men too became freinds that call me for advice quite often. Being transgender is a personal experience for me and to compare myself to another lady is to losing game for all of us since there is always somone better looking and has more years of transexperience and is the sage? bull     
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Kaori

Regardless of the differences in opinions and as dynamic as our situations may be from one another - I feel fortunate and am thankful to be part of this community thus far.  A community which I find speaks what they believe and stands up for how they feel - whether we agree or not, is why I appreciate the sharing and discussions here.

I now return you to the topic of masturbation   ;)
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Virginia87106

Thank you Kaori.  It is good to hear a voice of moderation and encouragement.  I am very glad you are here!!!
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Yvonne

Quote from: Diana_W on December 17, 2009, 11:42:17 PM
There is a tendency among some transsexuals to try to "conform" to whatever the medical texts say they are SUPPOSED to feel, even if it means being dishonest to themselves. I think this is harmful to those very people. If transition means anything, it means becoming true to yourself. Not just putting on a NEW set of externally imposed expectations that you STILL don't feel.

How do you know how I or other transsexual people really FEEL.  I'm not trying to "conform" to whatever the medical texts say that I'm SUPPOSED to feel & I'm not being dishonest to myself either.

I abhore the use of the word "True" when describing transsexual persons. Either they are a transsexual person or they aren't. And if they aren't they are transgender.

If a person is genderqueer that means they are gender variant. Transsexual people have no desire to be gender variant. They want to be the women (or men) they feel themselves to be. Transsexual people embrace the gender dichotomy, transgender people do not. It's really that simple.

And there is no hierarchy involved! These are standard definitions that have been around for years. Some people would like to make us all the same, but to me that is abhorrent. I didn't transition to be something in between. I transitioned to be the woman I feel myself to be. If a person wants to be genderqueer, fine. They just better not go around saying they are the same as me because they are not.

Also when some MTF's go around saying that "surgery isn't important to them & they love their dick & want to poke other people with it", it's not only offensive to some of us but it already has put GRS, a lifesaving treatment for actual sufferers of transsexualism at risk. That's reality. you deny the scientific studies that should have already been enough to make insurance companies pay up...but you give them cover not to.
And you wonder why some of us get pissed? Seriously, what planet are you people from anyway?
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Janet_Girl

People please remember that the SOC are guidelines.  And while I agree with Yvonne for the most part, being a Transsexual is a personal identification.

For me I need SRS.  Will I ever have it, I don't know.



Blessed Be
Janet
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Blanche

Quote from: Janet Lynn on December 18, 2009, 12:19:56 PM
being a Transsexual is a personal identification.

Blessed Be
Janet

Actually Janet Lynn, transsexualism is a diagnosable medical condition characterized by symptoms.  Transsexualism isn't an identity.  I agree with Yvonne as well.  Whilst I don't believe that you have to be post-op to be transsexual, the desire to have surgery has to be there. 
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Dana_W

Quote from: Yvonne on December 18, 2009, 12:08:31 PM
How do you know how I or other transsexual people really FEEL.  I'm not trying to "conform" to whatever the medical texts say that I'm SUPPOSED to feel & I'm not being dishonest to myself either.
Ahem... Despite your intimation that I was trying to tell you how you feel, if you will look at the actual statement I made, and which you quoted: "There is a tendency among some transsexuals to try to "conform" to whatever the medical texts say they are SUPPOSED to feel."

I made no pretense of knowing how YOU feel. But please allow me the ability to draw upon my own experiences and interactions with other transsexuals, in order to make a statement like "some transsexuals." There are transsexuals (more than just one) exactly like I described, and I know this because I have met them and listened to their thoughts and experiences.

I think it was perhaps a lot more common back before the Web made the transsexual community a lot more interconnected. But back in the early 90's, when I lived in the middle of Illinois, the idea of a transsexual "community" outside of a city like San Francisco or New York seemed a pipe dream. When you met a transsexual in such a place they seemed to have a HUGE desire to conform to whatever the professional journals said they were supposed to be. And it wasn't so much that they universally agreed. It was like their only lifeline to be taken seriously by the professional gatekeepers of their transition.

Even today on this very forum, you don't have to look long to find stories of transsexuals trying to tell their therapists and physicians what they think they want to hear, afraid that revealing their real thoughts and feelings might prevent them from being allowed HRT and/or GRS.

And I'm from planet Earth, thanks for asking.
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Hannah

QuoteTranssexualism isn't an identity
Thank you so much for putting that out there, it's really the heart of the matter. A condition that is not permanent.

As far as the original question goes, it doesn't matter if I can masturbate or not, the treatment for this temporary condition has left me without any desire too and that's the significant part. I've actually been meaning to get around to it for a couple days and keep spacing it off.
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lisaolsson

Quote from: Blanche on December 18, 2009, 02:01:51 PM
Actually Janet Lynn, transsexualism is a diagnosable medical condition characterized by symptoms.  Transsexualism isn't an identity.  I agree with Yvonne as well.  Whilst I don't believe that you have to be post-op to be transsexual, the desire to have surgery has to be there.

I would disagree.

While transsexualism is a diagnosable psychiatric condition, that does not disqualify it from also being an identity for some.
Also, the need for surgery are not a definite part of the symptoms for that diagnosis.
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Blanche

Quote from: lisaolsson on December 18, 2009, 02:16:40 PM
I would disagree.

While transsexualism is a diagnosable psychiatric condition, that does not disqualify it from also being an identity for some.
Also, the need for surgery are not a definite part of the symptoms for that diagnosis.

Yeah for some it is.  In reality it isn't.
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Elijah3291

shesh, what happened to this topic?

not its just a full fledged argument, lets not argue on who is more trans then who, etc
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V M

Yeah, it was somewhat interesting before folks started getting fussy  :P
The main things to remember in life are Love, Kindness, Understanding and Respect - Always make forward progress

Superficial fanny kissing friends are a dime a dozen, a TRUE FRIEND however is PRICELESS


- V M
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Alyssa M.

A lot of people writing here are applying a much tighter definition of transsexualism than any medical, psychiatric, or psychological organization currently applies.

WPATH (in the SoC) refers not to the DSM, but the ICD-10:

Quote from: ICD-10
Transsexualism (F64.0) has three criteria:
   1. The desire to live and be accepted as a member of the opposite sex, usually accompanied by the wish to make his or her body as congruent as possible with the preferred sex through surgery and hormone treatment
   2. The transsexual identity has been present persistently for at least two years
   3. The disorder is not a symptom of another mental disorder or a chromosomal abnormality

Source: http://www.wpath.org/Documents2/socv6.pdf

To see what the what the DSM has to say, look here: http://www.behavenet.com/capsules/disorders/genderiddis.htm
Note that desire for surgury is not required for any diagnosis, and there is no mention of masturbation or sexual activity, whatsoever.

Also, note what WPATH has to say about cultural effects:

Quote from: SoCCultural Differences in Gender Identity Variance throughout the World. Even if epidemiological studies established that a similar base rate of gender identity disorders existed all over the world, it is likely that cultural differences from one country to another would alter the behavioral expressions of these conditions. Moreover, access to treatment, cost of treatment, the therapies offered and the social attitudes towards gender variant people and the professionals who deliver care differ broadly from place to place. While in most countries, crossing gender boundaries usually generates moral censure rather than compassion, there are striking examples in certain cultures of cross- gendered behaviors (e.g., in spiritual leaders) that are not stigmatized.

And here's what WPATH has to say about "true transsexualism":

Quote from: SoCDuring the 1960s and 1970s, clinicians used the term true transsexual. The true transsexual was thought to be a person with a characteristic path of atypical gender identity development that predicted an improved life from a treatment sequence that culminated in genital surgery. True transsexuals were thought to have: 1) cross-gender identifications that were consistently expressed behaviorally in childhood, adolescence, and adulthood; 2) minimal or no sexual arousal to cross-dressing; and 3) no heterosexual interest, relative to their anatomic sex. True transsexuals could be of either sex. True transsexual males were distinguished from males who arrived at the desire to change sex and gender via a reasonably masculine behavioral developmental pathway. Belief in the true transsexual concept for males dissipated when it was realized that such patients were rarely encountered, and that some of the original true transsexuals had falsified their histories to make their stories match the earliest theories about the disorder. The concept of true transsexual females never created diagnostic uncertainties, largely because patient histories were relatively consistent and gender variant behaviors such as female cross-dressing remained unseen by clinicians.

That part I put in bold is precisely what Diana was talking about. I tend to think that the current establishment understanding rings true for me. Go ahead and disagree -- I have a few quibbles myself -- but understand that your point of view is neither more or less legitimate than anyone else's nor backed up by any establishment.

The whole discussion is semantic -- squabbling over where to draw the lines that define categories referred to by specific words -- and that's kind of lame. No word in any human langage has a meaning as distinct and precise as what we read in dictionaries -- except perhaps mathematical terms -- because all phenomena we encounter in this universe, even the most discrete ones that we see in physics experiments, are invariably continuous, fuzzy. Transsexualism is one of fuzzier.
All changes, even the most longed for, have their melancholy; for what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another.

   - Anatole France
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Virginia87106

Excellent post Alyssa!!!

"A lot of people writing here are applying a much tighter definition of transsexualism than any medical, psychiatric, or psychological organization currently applies."
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Arch

Quote from: Yvonne on December 18, 2009, 12:08:31 PM
If a person is genderqueer that means they are gender variant. Transsexual people have no desire to be gender variant. They want to be the women (or men) they feel themselves to be. Transsexual people embrace the gender dichotomy, transgender people do not. It's really that simple.

Yvonne, please be careful here. I know you don't want other people to label you in a way that is contrary to your own identity and self-perception. That is repugnant to me, too. But some transsexuals do embrace a certain amount of gender variance in themselves. For example, I have a transsexual friend who also self-identifies as genderqueer. I do not doubt that he is transsexual. I do not doubt that he is genderqueer. I respect his self-labeling. He is who he is.

And I am a transsexual, but I would not say that I "embrace the gender dichotomy." I am male, but I actually feel that too much reliance on strict societal differentiation between male and female can be destructive and harmful. I see myself as squarely in the male end of the spectrum, but that's only because I happen to occupy that position. I believe in a gender continuum, not a strict dichotomy. And that's who I am.

Back to the subject at hand...
"The hammer is my penis." --Captain Hammer

"When all you have is a hammer . . ." --Anonymous carpenter
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Just Kate

No.  Multiple reasons - (I'm Mormon first off and that's a no no, and I have a spouse).  My sex drive is near nill since my orchi anyhow.
Ill no longer be defined by my condition. From now on, I'm just, Kate.

http://autumnrain80.blogspot.com
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Brittani A.

Very well put scientific anaylicial review. I always knew I was transexual and I meet all three criterea and every medical term to describe me. It is however only important to me as my phsyciatrist and me move forward in my hrt and eventual srs for many years to come. I look forward to discarding part of myself that was a wall and a barrier to my happiness and my view of myself since I had been hiding it from everyone including myself for safety. I appoligize for using terms so loosely here on this chat room and for getting "off-track" here. I am not so sensitive on this issue as it is my life and I will do as I please as long as it brings me closer to my true self.. thats it in a nutshell :)   
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V M

The main things to remember in life are Love, Kindness, Understanding and Respect - Always make forward progress

Superficial fanny kissing friends are a dime a dozen, a TRUE FRIEND however is PRICELESS


- V M
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Yvonne

Quote from: Alyssa M. on December 18, 2009, 03:59:49 PM
A lot of people writing here are applying a much tighter definition of transsexualism than any medical, psychiatric, or psychological organization currently applies.

WPATH (in the SoC) refers not to the DSM, but the ICD-10:

Source: http://www.wpath.org/Documents2/socv6.pdf

To see what the what the DSM has to say, look here: http://www.behavenet.com/capsules/disorders/genderiddis.htm
Note that desire for surgury is not required for any diagnosis, and there is no mention of masturbation or sexual activity, whatsoever.

Also, note what WPATH has to say about cultural effects:

And here's what WPATH has to say about "true transsexualism":

That part I put in bold is precisely what Diana was talking about. I tend to think that the current establishment understanding rings true for me. Go ahead and disagree -- I have a few quibbles myself -- but understand that your point of view is neither more or less legitimate than anyone else's nor backed up by any establishment.

The whole discussion is semantic -- squabbling over where to draw the lines that define categories referred to by specific words -- and that's kind of lame. No word in any human langage has a meaning as distinct and precise as what we read in dictionaries -- except perhaps mathematical terms -- because all phenomena we encounter in this universe, even the most discrete ones that we see in physics experiments, are invariably continuous, fuzzy. Transsexualism is one of fuzzier.

Ahh kind of convenient isn't Alyssa? to indentify some points of my posts but not all??

What do you say about those "supoosed" MTF transsexual people that enjoy their cock, love the feeling the erection feels & don't want to get rid of it?

There's nothing that screams more MALE than a "supposed" MTF transsexual that wants his cock sucked or wants to enter another person.  Call it bigotry if you want, to me that's disgusting behaviour.  You should be ashamed of yourselves.  Just disgusting,. repudiate behaviour.  go ahead & get all the "okays" you get, you will neverbe nothing more than a freak to the eyes of society.
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