Genderless androgene?

[Enki]

Hi everyone,

I've been reading a lot of topics on this forum, especially about 'androgene' and 'genderlesness', but somehow I don't quet (appologise my bad English, it's not my mother-language) find any topics that apply to the way I feel.

Maybe I should spent more time reading all of those topics,............... there are so many,............

As a genderless being (at leat that's how I feel) I noticed that most of the people on this forum who say/think they're genderless and/or androgene seem to be carefully trying to step over to the other sex (or partly) or try to find a mingle of it in between. But I didn't find any topic about someone who really feels genderless. Somehow there's allways a twist into the male or female direction. It's either a female person who likes to explore/express more of her male side or a male who likes to explore/explore more of his female side. Are there people out there who feel genderless?

For instance: did anyone of you ever consider letting your genitals being removed, so that you don't have any genitals at all? I really would like to know if anyone of you did this or considered doing so (because it plays in my mind but I'm scared about that thought, although it is how I feel).

I'm sorry for this message and I don't want to offend anyone, but I feel lonely with my feelings about who/what I am and reading the topics in this forum does give a good feeling in the way that there are a lot of people who are dealing with their gender (I'm not the only one), but still, I didn't find what I'm looking for (an answer to what the h*ll I am and how to deal with it).

Is there anyone out there who really feels genderless without a female or male dominance and no feeling of changing her or his actual sex (sligthly) into the other? Someone who found a way to deal wih this or who also is strugling with this?

Sorry for this, still feeling lonely with my 'strange' thoughts about who or what I am,

Love,

Enki

[Nero]

Hello Enki,

Don't feel alone. You are not alone in your feelings. I think some androgynes tend toward the opposite of their birth sex to compensate. The birth sex and its characteristics often overshadow the opposite characteristics and so the opposite characteristics seem to be given more weight by androgynes.
They feel they need to pay more attention to them to achieve a balance. I don't think you're alone at all in your feelings; just that most androgynes try to compensate for their birth sex.

[Alexmakenoise]

I have met a few people who have told me they have always felt genderless.  So I don't think you're alone.

[IHPUN]

Enki, please don't feel alone.  I feel at least somewhat similarly; I feel like I'm not really a man or a woman, and mixing characteristics of the two isn't really what I'm going for either, so I suppose you could call me genderless.  I've definitely thought about having my genitals removed like you talk about; I first thought of it (in a neutral to positive way) some time between the ages of 7 and 10, I think.  I thought about it more after my body began to change. 

I am currently seeking the complete removal of my (male) genitals; it's difficult to find information, but I am seeing an understanding therapist, and I hope that he will eventually refer me to a doctor so that I can get on an antiandrogen.  I guess I'll be trying to have the surgery about a year after that; I still have no idea which surgeons will do it, but I know that a few do, and if I have to, I will fly to the other side of the world to find one who is competent and willing to do it.

Also, despite thinking previously that I would never find an understanding partner, I have now found a wonderful woman with whom I can share all of these "strange" things about myself.  It can be very difficult to tell another person, of course, but don't despair of finding such a person; I'm sure that you can, if you want to.

[Nicky]

Perhaps neutrois is the word you are looking for? We did have someone on this site once that got surgery once to do just that (though had a rudimentry vulva constructed without vagina for sexual reasons). They have not been back for some time though.

Have a search online for neutrois, or Null gender, or agender, that might be just the ticket.  You are also perfectly welcome to talk about you issues here.

We only have a little entry in our wiki.
https://www.susans.org/wiki/Null_gender

See http://gender.wikia.com/wiki/Neutrois

[IcyThing]

No. You're not alone.
I'm a very genderless person, bordering slightly towards female only because of the way the society I live in views my personality and preferred way of dressing. This is because I like jewelry and other shineys, though I'm not very fond of skirts. It IS rather confusing at times.

I would quite gladly remove my genitals, but given that I was born with a female body my breasts are a larger(pun intended) concern for me. That and only the bleeding really is a problem for me, because there's plenty of skin in the way, and most of the time it's unnoticeable to me. I think I kind of lucked out there.

I do have a partner, born female who's starting a ftm change, who I love and trust very much, and is the only reason I'll be leaving some of my feminine traits untouched until they're done transitioning. This was my own choice, because I felt it would help make things easier for them on a social level. One cost at a time, though the agreement is, I get my top surgery before they do. This was their idea.

My 'sister' also is 100 percent genderless down to the 0. Every last test, be they mostly online, has listed her dead center, neither boy nor girl.


So no. You're not alone.
Neither am I.
Nether is 'she'.

Any other questions you have, I will do my best to answer.

[Nicky]

I've always felt strongly gendered. It is not male or female but I have a gender. Weird. I can only call it Nicks Gender.

[Enki]

Thank you all very much for your responses. It's somewhat confusing to find the right words/'categorie' to put my thoughts in. It is only recently that I'm searching the internet for answers to those feelings I have. And within this search words like 'genderless' and 'androgene' came the closest. Terms like neutrois, or Null gender, or agender are pretty new for me, so I'll do a search on that as well.

The idea of having no genitals at all is something that feels perfectly correct in my mind. But than somehow this thought scares me: is it a fantasie about a perfect body for me or is it really what I want. It is not a small step to take.

Anyways, Since I met my partner I told her that I'm not a man. She often asked me what I am than, to which I answer(ed) 'I don't know'. She accepts that (but I wonder if she understands how serious I am about that)

Thank you all again for your reactions. I'm going to give it a place in my mind.

Lots of love,

Enki

[Diane Elizabeth]

              Its hard when one doesn't understand why.  I have had passing thoughts of fantasy that I really should have no genitals.  I was raised as a male, but never achieved manhood.   I wish I could talk to a therapist to sort out the thoughts.   However, my insurance won't cover GID.  But it is nice to know that maybe I am not as weird as I thought about wanting  the genitals removed.    But it is still scary all the same.    Starla Dyan (used to be Dylen)

[Enki]

Yes, confusing isn't it? I asked myself if I should talk with a psychiatrist about it, but I told myself not to (although it might be interesting to hear what such a person has to say about it).

Here is what I 'figured out' myself by spending thousands of hours thinking about it and trying to find answers. It might sound odd:

I believe that the soul is genderless and that it subconsiously adapts to the body it is in (I see the human body as some sort of vehicle for the soul (and the soul as an universal lifegiving form of energy)). For most people this adapting happens without any problems because their soul is not concious of it's own genderlessness and so accepts the body it is in without a problem.

Now, I believe that the confusion we are experiencing is that our soul is concious about it's own genderlessness and so it feels strange in a body that has a certain gender. I think that my soul doesn't accept this body because it doesn't stroke with it's genderless way of being. I think that from within nature our souls are not about to notice this. But for some of us they do. Hmm.

I don't believe in reincarnation in the way that a soul can reincarnate into another being in a next life, but if you listen to story's that people (who do believe in reincarnation) tell about former lives, they often mention that they have been a person from the opposite sex than they are in this life. From this point of view the soul can only be genderless, otherwise this would not be possible. But than again, I don't believe in reincarnation (I do believe in an eternal ongoing of lifegiving energy, but that's a different story ;-).

Oh, and how about angels? They are genderless! Now angels are fictional, but in story's they represent some sort of higher divine energy.

By the way, when I speak of 'the soul' I might speak of 'the spirit' or whatever terms there are. What I mean is the lifegiving something inside of us. The energy without which we wouldn't be able to live.

Well, anyways, just some thoughts that keep me occupied while trying to figure out my 'strange' thoughts about who/what I am.

Love,

Enki

[noeleena]

Hi...
  For some of us we are a mix of both . It really does not matter what we are . this really goes back to the womb . we are there as a being not really male or female . untill the little bit s & peaces all come to gether . them some have t & other e  yet that is not just the body . its our mind . i know for me its that  mix of both   like say 60 % male & 60 % female & i swing both ways ether side of that . so i have been on both sids . yes i had s r s .  I know theres more . it just takes time to see . & its not all at once . so yes its very hard at times . to work out what you think you are . i was never a dresser ,or a transsexual  so the best i could see was / is a andro . having both male & female . yet would loved to have had or given birth to my child . how do you explain your self some times i fail yet love having both yet i do swing towards more as a woman . now i am a non sexual  person . cant  have any sexual relations as such . wether  male or female that stoped 11 years ago . that part of me closed down . & i dont wont it . not because im 62 just me . any way we are all different . so just be a part of us . & wellcome to our neat home .

   ...noeleena...

[Valkyrie]

Hi everyone I'm new here and this is my first post.

I strongly identify myself as an androgyn and I find it incredibly frustrating. I've taken the COGIATI twice,, once last night and once a few years back. Both times it said i was neither male nor female, even after I changed my answers a few times. And while I know it's not technically a legit test, I felt incredibly disappointed when last time it said i was not transgendered. I feel like if I knew that I was transgendered then at least I'd know what I wanted 100% but I can't even know what it is I truly want. All I know for sure is that I don't want my penis or testes.

I am 21 and I was born as a male with two sisters, 3 and 5 years older than me. I am also a crossdresser, not so much at this point just for excitement but for my daily life. I wear panties daily(among other things) and tuck myself frequently: whenever i get dressed or get done going to the bathroom. For as long as I can remember I've been at odds with my male genetalia. Many times I've strongly felt the need to get rid of them (pretty much every day), whether by going null or having SRS. I would be very reluctant to go through SRS for my family's sake, however I'm sure my parents (both being RNs) would be equally if not more horrified by the idea of me having my male parts removed, especially since I'm their only son.

To get rid of my male bulge I would technically be willing to go either route, and both have their pros and cons. On one hand, it'd be great to just have nothing down there. On the other hand, although I know without testes or a penis I could still technically orgasm, if I had a vagina then I'm sure sex would be much better and more natural so to speak, however in the past I've felt that "becomming a woman" might be too much of a hassle. And I know sex isn't everything in life, but I wouldn't want to so drastically limit my options at such a young age, while I still feel I have my whole life ahead of me.

Recently I began to think maybe I'm just transgendered and I don't know it. I would pursue SRS but I often think that the powers that be would not permit me to do such a thing because "I'm just faking being transgendered so I can have a vagina." If I'm not transgendered then a life-altering procedure like that might not be in my best interest. But in my mind I think, "what does it really matter whether I'm transgendered in the long run if I'm going to end up cutting off my manliness anyhow?"

I feel completely torn. I don't necessarily feel that I relate to women more than men or vice versa. I might categorize myself as bisexual but I've never really been with a women, and have been with men (intimately). I like to look pretty, I'm quite slender unlike my father and his side of the family, who are all big brawny body types. I don't necessarily have any desire to have breasts or wear mary janes or high heels but I honestly wouldn't mind living my life as a woman... it's not like I'm going to get knocked up if i had srs, haha. I don't necessarily like just girl or guy things. I could put Tori Amos and Lamb of God on the same playlist.

So I guess you're not alone, and neither am I, but it still aggrivates me deeply. Does anyone have any advice? I was planning on going to a TG support group here in town on the 19th and just kind of hanging around and listening in, but I'm not positive if that will really help me out in any way. I haven't told anyone I'm TG or genderqueer because I wouldn't want anyone to think I was just trying to get attention or "going through a phase," and I have no job right now so I have no funds to see a therapist or counsellor or a psychiatrist or psychologist.

[LightlyLuke]

Valkyrie, I would think that going to the TG support group might help you. It doesn't sound to me like you're "faking being transgendered so you can have a vagina" but it does sound to me like you have a lot of questions you're working through. So that talking with others who are in a similar situation might help you work through those questions.

[Valkyrie]

Wow, Luke, the 5 days it took for someone (that someone being you) to reply to my post seemed like a lifetime! lol

Thank you.

[Renate]

My two cents on this:

I believe that erotic sense is a normal constituent of the human animal.
Maybe for some, their hormones or mind doesn't allow them to exercise this now.
I would counsel anybody who wants to have erotically sensitive material removed to consider it very seriously beforehand.
You might be wanting some of these feelings later.

[justmeinoz]

This is an interesting thread, as I feel I have been moving through a similar place.
As for changing the body, I now am not that fussed one way or the other.  It's a fit(ish)  form that my mind inhabits.  Male? Female? No, I am ...human.