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Do you download?

Started by Hannah, February 07, 2010, 02:46:27 AM

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tekla

#20
EXTRA SPECIAL DISCLAIMER*

Most of the people I work with, and myself included, agree on one thing - the quickest way to get on our permanent ES&D list is to ask us for free tickets, or 'if we could get you into the show.'  And you know right off its not some new little new hip, cool, trendy band that only sold 500 of the thousand tickets (because I could get you into that, if only by telling my boss you'd drink heavy).  No, it's going to be something like the 'usually in an arena' but 'one night only' at the club or theater show that sold-out in a matter of moments, and that was months ago.  Oh yeah, and 'your friend too."

So I ask, and I've heard other ask - "hey, you work in a shoe store, can I come over and pick up a free pair of Bates Tach Boots?  You work at a grocery store or liquor store, could you bring me a couple of bottles of Wild Turkey?  You work at a bank, could I have some free money?"  Oddly enough, they look at us like we are asking them to steal from their place of business.  But somehow they do not see their request from us as being the same deal.

Yeah, you don't like the record companies.  Who does?  Not the band, not the songwriters, not the engineers, not the consumers and not the stagehands either - our only bonus is that we get to tell the execs to GTFO our stage.

I mean what's it take to make a decent recording?
- space, and acoustically neutral space at that (so expensive)
- equipment (very expensive)
- personal - engineers, producers, hands, someone to work the money, catering, clean-up (good people cost, simple as that)

So who is footing that bill?  Who is paying for the space, the equipment, the personal?  The band is.  The big huge record company that me and you and a dog named Boo all hate so much might front the money, but they are going to get every penny back long before the band sees a cent.  I'll put you into contact with people (more than one) who can happily tell you how a band can get a gold record, but little to no gold to the bank with.  Having learned them from the movie industry, who had learned them from the publishing industry that created them, few works of fiction quite compare with the way record companies run their books.

But hey, no one like oil companies either, should you do a drive-away?  I hate banks, should I rob them?  Would either of those things be OK?

It has really hurt a lot of people.  Perhaps that is change, and nothing that can be done about it.  Sometimes the more things change the more they stay the same, so we still do showcases, we don't do it for record company execs anymore (weasels and lizards that they were and still are) but we do them for iTunes people who despite the degree that they came into it (at least in the beginning) as geeks, who have slowly morphed into weasels and lizards.

Now I like iTunes to the degree that you only have to buy the song you want and not like the old record company business model, which was to have you also pay for one (45s) to twelve (33 LPR) songs that you could have miked my ass after a burrito festival and got better music out of it, just to get the one song you wanted.  But I'm also very aware of the fact, that as a friend of mine said "iTunes is music that sounds good on dime sized speakers."

All that being said, the people who I've seen hurt the most by this are not the big corporate business executives, them fat cats - the weasels and lizards.  Nope in every case it's the programmers, the people who make and finance the movies, the songwriters and performers - who oddly enough are the only people in this whole feeding chain you actually like.  Ain't that a kick in the head?  The people the most damaged are the only ones you like.

I don't do it because I don't think I could in good conscience take money from people that are paying me to work for them while I steal from them behind their back.

But I wonder how many of you think that you should work for free?  If these people are supposed to provide for you for free, what are you doing to entertain us - for free?  If you don't value other people's work, why should anyone value yours? 

Oh yeah, I can say this with complete and total authority.  Your favorite band?  Those people who do all those songs you think are so meaningful?  Those people who you think really reach out and speak to you?  If you are downloading their stuff and not paying for it, then they think you suck.



* - I have a dog in this fight, and a rather large one.  For the most part it's good.  The less product these people sell, the more they have to tour to make money, they more they have to tour, the more shows they have to do, the more money I (and my brothers and sisters in this sector of the entertainment industry) make.  Where once upon a time (but it was not forever) bands used to tour to support the record (and the resulting record sales), they all pretty much record to support the tour & selling band merch (we've had many bands who show up with more merchandise then equipment - oh brave new world).  So not buying the recording only serves to make me more money in the long run.  But I also have a relationship with two different recording studios in the area and show up from time to time to load in and set up the bands in the studio, and then show up later to reverse the process.  Less recording (or evermore low-fi) means fewer of those kind of gigs.

FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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Hannah

The last job I had was managing a casual dining pizza restaurant with 70 tables, and if you had come in Tekla I would have given you a pizza and a pitcher of beer  :-*

That was my perogative though, as long as I made money it wouldn't have been considered stealing by my boss.

Now where's my Nirvana tickets. Wait, what, oh nevermind.
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BunnyBee

This is one question I have had for a while- if all that is true, why would any band that knows they will sell enough records to recoup the production and marketing costs even use a record company nowadays?  Why sign a record deal?

Another question I have is why in the world do albums in mp3 form often cost more than the actual cd's?

http://www.amazon.com/Extraordinary-Machine-Fiona-Apple/dp/B000B0WOEO/ref=pd_bxgy_m_img_c

/boggle
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Muffin

So.... for love or money?
I think any artist that is out there these days that has their eyes on the $$$ are playing a risky game and if I feel that they are like that then I feel no guilt for d/ling them.
I Think all art is or should be more for the love of it, if you make money from it then it's nothing more than a bonus but to have it as a career I don't know maybe I'm different I could never do that. For one it's just too unreliable and how many artists have you seen that crash and burn once they are famous and rich, the pressure of the world watching etc.
If these people feel a need to record in the most expensive locations and hire people to lift stuff and bring food for them then that's their problem and ...choice.
I listen to a lot of bands that record everything themselves or are part of a small independent record label that helps them out, like one big family and they do fine. NO pressure no bosses no BS.
To me I don't feel as much guilt listening to them as I know they are just happy to have people listen, they don't let money run their lives, in fact a lot of them offer their music for free anyway. For love or money? Backstreet boys can eat a d%&K.

I'm yet to hear a famous band come out and say "look world we would really like to continue as this band and put out records but you know...I had to sell my jet pack the other day just to feed my alligator so it looks like we can't go on... ... ....... .....because people keep d/ling our music which effects our income..... we're in sad days".
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spacial

My understanding is the artists get only a few pennies from each album sold.

The recording companies recoup their outlay from album sales. This explains why they are often prepared, especially with big names, to spend so much on exotic locatations.

I don't pretend to understand how the system works, or how the publishing companies can domnate so much.

But this might explain why so many artists, especially those who don't own their own publishing company, outright, are not really botherd by downloads. They, presumably, hope to get their revenue from live concerts and appearences.

Perhaps someone here knows a bit more about it.
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BunnyBee

Quote from: Muffin on February 09, 2010, 06:14:18 PM
I think any artist that is out there these days that has their eyes on the $$$ are playing a risky game and if I feel that they are like that then I feel no guilt for d/ling them.

Don't you think if you make something millions of people love and enjoy that you should be rewarded for it?

A world where artists weren't allowed to become wealthy would be a less beautiful world.
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Muffin

depends how you define wealth.... if money is wealth to you then sure.. but to me most 'good' music is about love not money. It sucks that people are cornered into putting so much worth and importance on money :S
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Jasmine.m

Quote from: Becca on February 09, 2010, 05:38:36 PMNow where's my Nirvana tickets. Wait, what, oh nevermind.

Ha ha! Clever!! I couldn't stop giggling about that while I was shoveling snow!!  :D
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azSam

#28
Being a musician and producer myself. I actually don't have anything against downloading music. It's always nice to be supported, but if you make good music, people will support you anyway. You don't need itunes or the vicious blood sucking RIAA to make money off of your tunes.

Radiohead did a "Pay what you want" on a recent album called "In Rainbows". Previously they would only sell a few hundred thousand albums, under this new scheme they sold millions. They also sold a record amount of tickets to their live shows, 1.2 million.

"In Rainbows" under the "pay what you want" model is radiohead's largest grossing album of all time.
http://www.nme.com/news/radiohead/40444

Downloading music won't kill the music industry. Because in reality the artists get the vast majority of their money from Royalties and live events. I would dare say that downloading music for free can only help the music industry, people will have more access to these artists driving them to want to see them in concert even more.


But to answer the original question. I don't generally download a lot of music, do to lack of interest. But I do download unlicensed anime by the truckload. It's sort of my addiction.
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