my hrt experiment

[gothique11]

So, I've been running an HRT experiment on myself trying to see if taking estrace sublingually (under the tongue and letting it dissolve) vs just swallowing it. Divided doses, one in the morning and one a night. I can't talk about the dose here.

As a pre-amble, this is just myself and I don't know if it would be the same with others, or not. I have also been on HRT for almost 4 years and I had SRS almost two years ago.

I usually take it under the tongue, but in the last few months I've been trying both methods and trying to see if there have been different results (ie, breast pain). I also have been getting blood tests a couple weeks in to see the different estrogen levels in the blood, as well as checking my blood clotting, liver, and thyroid.

During both times, blood, liver, thyroid and so on came back perfectly normal.

My estrogen level, however, would be very different depending if I swallowed the pill or took it sublingually. I would usually wait a three hours after my morning dose, and then get the blood test.

My estrogen level sublingually was significantly higher. On average, about 1800. That is above the range the lab uses for female test results (range is 200-900 apx; not pregnant - those ranges are different).

My estrogen level swallowing was lower. The average was around 360. That was with in range of the labs and seen as a healthy range.

Now, here comes the interesting part:

The times I took the estrace sublingually I observed that my breast didn't hurt, and weren't growing. I didn't really notice any other major body changes. I did notice a bit of weight gain, especially in the belly area.

The times that I swallowed the estrace, however, I've noticed that my breasts would start to begin to hurt and I would experience growth. I also noticed that my hips got wider and my waist got smaller. I also would lose some weight.

This is interesting, and I'm not sure if anyone had this before. Perhaps, being in range makes a difference. I don't know if there's a difference between post-op and pre-op. There are many variables.

Anyway, I thought I would share this because I found it interesting. I wonder if anyone else has noticed similar, or perhaps different results when they have taken estrace/estrogen sublingually vs swallowing.

I find it very interesting that with less estrogen I'm experiencing more breast growth (and pain - gah! I hate that pain, and itchiness). One other affect I noticed with sublingual administration is that I would occasionally get the breast pain near my next dose -- if I skipped that dose, they pain would continue until the next morning. Meanwhile, with swallowing, it's an all day pain and itch fest.

I also notice that my hips hurt, a lot, when I swallow the pills but my hips also seem to change significantly when I do. No pain no gain? It feels very much like growing pains. They hurt and they get wider. My hips are nice, actually. I should get around to try to post a picture. Maybe I can convince a roomie of mine to take one sometime.

I should note, however, that before SRS my hips weren't the greatest. I noticed most of the hip changes after SRS. I had some hip pain before, but after SRS I get it when they seem to be on a growth spurt.

I know, I know, those two last paragraphs are going to attract nay-sayers that will tell me that it is impossible, and that maybe something else is wrong with me. I have checked with my doc, who just said it was growing pains and can't explain it any other way. *shrugs* it's one of those mysteries of life, I guess.

[Myself]

It could be possible.
Who did your SRS and how old are you?

Edit: Did you eat anything when taking the pills, before the blood tests? I think usually they are done fasting.

[tatiana]

When taken sublingually, the estradiol would bypass your liver by directly going into the bloodstream and would remain as E2 (Estradiol). Whereas if taken it orally, it becomes E1 (Estrone) when it passes through the liver. Essentially, the micronized estradiol tablets you're taking can become two different types of estrogen depending on the way you administer it.

Sublingual administration of estradiol increases the estradiol levels in the blood up to 4 times more than by taking it orally. Sublingal administration results in a burst in E2 levels which rapidly drops in the first 6 hours.

Here are my thoughts... someone correct me if I'm wrong since I'm not a pharmacist or doctor:
First of all, since E1 and E2 are chemically different... thinking it possibly could impact your development.

Second, since the estradiol taken orally has to pass through your liver, it will provide a more stable and sustained level of estrogen throughout a longer period of time compared to taking it sublingually. My guess is that your breasts would hurt because there is a stable level of estrogen promoting breast growth when you take it orally (this is assuming also that a stable level is better for growth). As for the times you took it sublingually, since the estrogen levels weren't sustained, the effects of estrogen you were looking for were absent because the estrogen was present in your bloodstream only half the time during the day.

As for your hips, perhaps they are growing. Pull out a tape measure to record any changes. It isn't unheard of for gg women to experience hip growth during pregnancy. Some on this board have claimed that their hips have grown bigger. Personally, it feels like my hips have grown since I started HRT 2.5 months ago as my left hip has been aching. I only started measuring my hip bone structure only 2 weeks ago so there's only my belief that my hips "look" bigger than before at the moment. Let us know if your bone measurements change.

[gothique11]

Nope, I didn't eat anything before hand.

Brassard did my SRS and I'm 31 atm. I started HRT when I was 26. I already had a low T-level and higher than average estrogen for a male bodied person before HRT.

My thought is that under the tongue (sublingually), more estrogen goes through your blood count than if you swallowed the estrace. Probably 'cause it slowly breaks down in your digestion tract, and then is further broken down by your liver, thus, your estrogen blood count would be lower.

I just think it's interesting with lower estrogen levels showing up that I experience more  objective "growth" compared to times when I took the estrace sublingually. That, I find very interesting and goes against the logic that some produce in which "more is better." Whereas, at least in my own experiment, it's more about balancing the hormones to a range (that range is pretty large, apx 200-900). Now, women can go about that, too, if they are pregnant, for example, or they have a health condition that affects the levels (ie, estrogen dominance). The thing about pregnancy is what the body does is different than a teen going through puberty would go through. Hormone levels, for example, could have an impact on telling your body what to do. For example, way too much might tell your body to prepare to be pregnant and you get a bit of a belly.

My doctor even finds it interesting, 'cause his logic was that my breasts should be growing "like crazy" with the estrogen in my system via sublingually, but, interested in a how a normal ranged level (swallowed) made more of a difference. Could level ranges help either turn on or turn off body changes.

Of course, I'm one person and these are just my experience - so, it might not be true or any one else.

[Myself]

gothique11, you are right. There are a lot of researches showing that too much estrogen can hinder breast growth and usually it's progesterone that prepares for pregnancy but too much estrogen can mean something too.

Keep up what gives you the best results
Post Merge: March 24, 2010, 06:36:37 AM
I forgot to mention, flooding the receptors with estrogen, like anything else, can cause estrogen insensitivity due to the receptors being overused and flooded.