My friend outed me!

[Wendy1974]

 So I went to a club on the weekend and a friend introduced me to this guy. I didn't take much notice of this guy at first but later in the evening I started talking to him and it turned out he was really nice, shy and sweet. I ended up hanging out talking and dancing with this guy for the rest of the evening and thats all that happened, no touching, no kissing, just talking and dancing. It was great! I was having so much fun and so when he asked me for my number I actually gave it to him and I almost never give out my real number. He lives in another city but he's coming to my city next week and he wants to get together. I was really excited. An actual real life non-dirtbag was asking me on a date? I had thought this type of guy was a myth by this point!

I started wondering about if I should tell him I was trans or not. Nothing physical had happened and he was quite shy so I was sure that he wasn't going to make a move that night so I decided the best thing to do was to get to know each other a bit more and if it seemed like it might go somewhere then I would tell him and if that made him lose interest then fair enough, I'm not for everybody, but at least I'd have a fair chance. No sooner had I settled this in my mind and started to relax and enjoy the party again then we passed another friend of mine named Kyle. Kyle grabs this guys arm and I am 90% sure he said to him that "she's a man". A few minutes later the guy left and I've not heard from him since. I emailed him and explained the situation but at this point I don't expect to hear back from him. It's not the first time and it won't be the last time that a guy didn't want anything to do with me because I'm trans, thats not what is bugging me.

What is bugging me is my supposed friend Kyle. I thought he accepted me, he gave me no indication before that he thought of me as "a man". I need to explain to him why what he did is wrong, how he is not the chief of the gender police and apparently I need to do it in such a way that even a six year old can understand because he just doesn't get it. Unfortunately I am not good at explaining trans issues and educating despite reading a lot about it. I know I won't be able to get through to him and he'll do it again and again because he thinks he's 'looking out for the other dudes' or something. Can you guys offer some suggestions for how I can explain to him why its not cool to out other people?

Thanks

~Wendy

[placeholdername]

"because he thinks he's 'looking out for the other dudes' or something"

If that's really what his outlook is, then I'm not sure there's anything you can do to change his mind in the short term.  Best I could recommend would be not to go places with him -- and maybe tell him why it is you don't want him around.  If he's really a friend then maybe he'll come around eventually, if not, then you're better off with him.

[Wendy1974]

The problem is that we go to a lot of the same parties. I don't go to them with him he just happens to go to them too. Avoiding him isn't going to be a practical solution.

[placeholdername]

Hmm... got any dirt on him? 

[Janet_Girl]

You need to met with Kyle, explain what he did wrong.  Make sure he understands that his behavior  is unacceptable and then 'bit*ch slap' him into next week.

[Wendy1974]

Thats the problem; I'm not sure how to explain it so he'll understand what a ->-bleeped-<-ty thing that was to do.

[Autumn]

Hmm... got any dirt on him? 

Maybe your friend Kyle can mysteriously come down with Hep C, perhaps his dates need to know.

[cynthialee]

Maybe your friend Kyle can mysteriously come down with Hep C, perhaps his dates need to know.

brilliant I highly suport ussing underhanded and vile techniques. nothing czn quite teach a lesson as well.

[Sarah B]

I do not know your history with your friend Kyle.  But a true friend would never out you. It is up to you and you alone who you tell others about yourself.

If you have asked your friend Kyle "not to out you before" and you have made this point explicitly clear, then you may have to dump your friend.  Your safety, well being and acceptance in society are more important than some friend who outs you.

If you have not then give Kyle the benefit of the doubt and tell Kyle under no circumstances will you tolerate your outing to anyone.  If it happens again you will need to decide what to do.

I once had a certain situation a long time ago.  When I first started out and I had my first job and no one knew about my past.  Someone who knew phoned me and said "I would not out you", but given the circumstances which would take to long to explain.  I felt threatened, so I got another job moved house and the rest they say is history.

I am a very private person and I keep it that way because of my job and I want people to see me as I truly am, a female.  I also informed my family members the same sort of thing.  I would not associate with them basically again.  If they revealed my past.

Yes I know it sounds harsh, but I want a life free from any of "those hassles". 

I hope this gives you some ideas on how to approach this situation. Only you can decide what to do in the future.

Kind regards
Sarah B

[juliekins]

I think your "friend" Kyle is a jerk. Either that, or else he wants you for himself. I can't believe anyone would be this clueless who supposedly is the friend of a trans person. 

[Arch]

I think your "friend" Kyle is a jerk. Either that, or else he wants you for himself.

It would be funny (but possibly dangerous) if you confronted him by coming on to him and telling him, "Now I understand why you keep telling guys I'm trans. You want to scare them away and keep me all to yourself. Well, here I am, baby, all yours."

You could also threaten to start spreading the rumor that you and Kyle have slept together. Again, could be dangerous. Playing dirty usually is.

Seriously, if he is this fracking clueless and you are quite sure he will never get it, and you don't want to put up with it anymore, then what choice have you? He is no friend. Start cutting your ties, and find new parties to go to. Seriously.

[rejennyrated]

Trust me it happens! Get used to it because it won't change. I've even been outed by my own foster son in the past although to be fair he did take it on board when I explained that in future I preferred to be the one who did the telling.

But whatever you say to them some people will always just feel that they are just looking out for everyone (sometimes, as they see it, even including us) by preventing us from "getting into an awkward situation with someone who doesn't know..." and to be honest part of me can almost see their point of view, although obviously I don't agree with it and I fervently wish they wouldn't do it!

The trouble is such people see it as their moral duty and they won't listen to anything you say. So you either find a way to avoid them - or you get used to it because there is no known cure.

If you ever find a way to make those types of people see that it is wrong then please let me know. In 30 years I still haven't discovered the secret. Happily on a few occasions the person who was "told" turned round and promptly gave the "teller" a real earfull telling him that he had no bleep bleep bleeping business telling other people my private secrets! Needless to say things then developed quite nicely...

[Wendy1974]

Thanks for the advice everyone. Doing dirt on someone for doing dirt on me isn't me. I confronted him and he says he didn't out me. I believe him so I apologized for doubting him.

Thanks

Wendy

[juliekins]

It also becomes a real issue in the workplace if someone knows, then feels 'morally compelled' to out the trans person. Almost like the message is, "don't get to close to THEM because the are 'really a guy/gal" or "used to be a ...". 

Don't these phobic idiots have anything better to do?

[LordKAT]

Reminds me of  the one supervisor I have to deal with. He believes he has to "warn" others about me. As if I am oh so scary or dangerous.

[Arch]

Thanks for the advice everyone. Doing dirt on someone for doing dirt on me isn't me. I confronted him and he says he didn't out me. I believe him so I apologized for doubting him.

Yeah, it is presumptuous to assume. I meant to say something about that in my post.

I thought a friend must have outed me recently to a businessman, but my friend isn't the type to do it. So I didn't confront him; I waited for the right moment in a conversation and wondered aloud, "How on earth did Businessman clock me?" I wasn't about to accuse my buddy when I had only suspicions and he had no history of outing people. Turns out the businessman is trans himself, and he just figured it out.

Still, if you're trying to be stealth, it's better to be...judiciously suspicious. Or find new people to hang around with, people who don't know. And even that isn't foolproof.

[sneakersjay]

It also becomes a real issue in the workplace if someone knows, then feels 'morally compelled' to out the trans person. Almost like the message is, "don't get to close to THEM because the are 'really a guy/gal" or "used to be a ...". 

Don't these phobic idiots have anything better to do?

Interestingly when I came out at work, the managers gave explicit instructions to certain key employees (kinda the pseudo-managers when the managers are off the premises) that if they heard anyone outing me or dissing me or saying anything derogatory about me, they were to report to the managers and the person would be fired immediately.

I haven't heard a thing from anyone other than the occasional pronoun slip, which they pretty much correct after they've said it.  If the new employees know, they were told off premises.

Jay

[tekla]

Three can keep a secret, if two are dead.
      - Hell's Angels motto

Ask him if he did that.  If the answer is 'yes' tell him not to.  If he continues, throw him under the bus.


Reminds me of  the one supervisor I have to deal with. He believes he has to "warn" others about me
I'm in a reverse position, my crews warn people about me.  I've heard them say to people who are looking to complain and 'demand to talk to the supervisor' that they will point them my way, "...but you're not going to like it."  I mean if you're all complaining in my face then I'm not looking to solve your problem, I'm looking to solve my problem, and you just became my problem.  I try to back them to the ends of the earth, and if they screwed up, well I'll talk to them later, but in private.  Recently we had a band with two semis, and the merch was on the back of the first one (it's pretty much the last stuff to get loaded in at the end of the night).  And Mister Merch Guy was not there at 10, so my crew dumped it up against the side of the building (perhaps had he been there, they might have helped him) and proceeded to unload the set/audio/backline.  They were about 15 minutes into it when the merch guy showed up and had a hissy fit all over them when they said that they would help him, but not until they were done with the truck they were on.  OMG, you would have thought they told him they gang-banged his mom and sister last night and left without saying 'thanks' by the amount of rage he had when he made it to me.  So after his little diatribe, I calmly informed him that the crew did the right thing, furthermore they are stagehands, not merch-hands, and moreover, I'm going to tell them that I don't want them touching that stuff till the second truck is done.  There, problem solved.

[gothique11]

That sux. **hugs** I've had that happen to me several times before.

[Cindy]

This is a joke.

After reading the Girl with the Dragon Tattoo by Stieg Larsson. What you need to do is handcuff him to a bed and tattoo on his belly. I'm a big sissy. Then tell him you will never out him, but how many dates does he think he'll get?

Sorry I'm feeling a bit silly tonight

Cindy