how people perceive you

[Brittyn]

For those of you who pass all the time or some of the time, do you sometimes forget how people see you?

[Arch]

I'm not sure I'm understanding you right, but I'll answer.

I don't see how I could, because people keep reinforcing how they see me, with words like "he" and "sir."

[zombiesarepeaceful]

When I doubt my passing abilities, I just ask one of my close friends or remind myself that one sunday night at a show...the whole crowd thought I was just a gay boy (in spite of me wearing duct tape which showed a bit through my beater). We're our own worst critics, so I don't rely on my own opinion of how I pass as much as I do other people's. But if I still don't pass in my eyes, you better bet it screws with my head and I do everything I can to change it.

[Landon18]

Im not sure i get it...
But for me...
I bind, and dress like a guy.
MY face looks pretty male too. but i haven't started t yet.
I pass like a guy, but NOT my age.
I pass as a 12 or 13 year old boy.

[Brittyn]

I guess it was kind of a stupid question.  I meant... sometimes you could forget that you pass, or something.

[sneakersjay]

People perceive me as male, and I love it.

I sometimes forget myself that I'm trans...until I drop my drawers.  Bummer.

[GnomeKid]

i think i know what you mean.

I've passed at a glance for almost my whole life, and at about 30[passing]/70[not] once I talked to someone [pre-T]  Of course everyone saw, and knew, me as a girl.  Now that I've been on T for 7 months, had top surgery, and pass 100% its often weird to understand that people legitimately see me that way.  Not necessarily in terms of "he" and "his" or "him" but in social situations. 
The biggest issue in the for me right now is girls.  I've always been used to just sort of putting myself to the side as an almost non-sexual entity amongst people.  Not wanting to weird anyone out by having a "lesbian" flirting with/hitting on them, I just sort of avoided the whole thing.  Now that I'm a dude, and everyone knows me as and sees me as a dude, it shouldn't be that big of an issue but it still is.  I have a hard time believing straight girls could like me in the slightest ect. because "I'm not a boy" even though I [now]clearly am. 
Other situations are like when other guys reference guy things.  It always causes me to fumble mentally for a second.  Like "were they talking to me?"

[Arch]

I guess it was kind of a stupid question.  I meant... sometimes you could forget that you pass, or something.

Not a stupid question at all, Graham. Maybe it's just more complicated than your original wording could convey. Or so simple that we wondered if there was more to it.

I have friends who have been transitioned for a few years and say that at a certain point, they stopped thinking all the time about gender and "passing." They can pretty much go a whole day without thinking about it. Some say that they rarely think about it. They're just male, and people see them as male, and that's correct, and no huhu.

Me, I haven't gotten there yet. Yet. It seems as if I'll never get there, never stop feeling self-conscious about my gender and my anatomy and my presentation. I guess it takes awhile for some (or perhaps even most) of us.

Today I returned a DVD to the family-owned video store that I've patronized irregularly for a good fifteen years. I didn't use this store for a couple of years before I transitioned, but I started going back when I was in the middle of transition. The owner, who had just seen me yesterday, said, "He returns!" as I handed him the movie. It was a weird moment, even now that I've been read as male for a good nine months.

I keep expecting one of them to say, "Hey, didn't you used to be...?" But it hasn't happened.

The worst thing is how I feel about how others read me. For so many years I lived a lie, tried hard to fit in and not be who I really was. It was incredibly stressful. I felt freakish, ashamed, and generally miserable. Now that I'm living as a guy, it's...incredibly stressful. I feel freakish, ashamed, and generally...sometimes good, sometimes bad, sometimes neutral. All over the map.

But I guess that's an improvement.

[Quicksand]

I'm pretty much done with my T-induced puberty and rockin' a full beard, but even with that there's still a little catch in my mind when someone uses male pronouns or my male name, no matter how many years I've been doing this for.  For me, it's kind of like learning a language, you know?  If you learn it as a kid, it becomes innate and you don't really have to think about it, but if you learn it as an adult, it will never truly be 'second nature.'  I have to translate it in my head: "he, as in me, as in I'm a male now, as in I am the 'he' being referred to, as in I should probably answer this question and stop staring at the professor like he has two heads."

However, I have heard quite the opposite from many other transguys.  I think if maybe I mentally put more effort into it I could forget, but I just never bothered.  I think either option is totally possible at the end of the road, and I still have a lot of years ahead of me to eat these words and have it become second nature for me as well.  I'm approx 2.5 years into living full-time as male, by the way, and time probably plays a role.

[Arch]

Interesting, Quicksand. A guy I know says that it took about two and a half years before he felt comfortable. I assume that this includes comfort level with everything, including pronouns and people's perceptions of him. However, he is also pretty careful about certain things. For example, at work he doesn't comment on how beautiful the sunset is because he says people look at him funny, as if that's not a "guy" comment. Me, I say whatever I say. The only things I filter are comments directly related to my trans status. If I see a nice sunset, then by gum I'm going to say something!

[Dennis]

I'm about 6.5 years in. I don't think about "passing" any more, but I'm in the same small town I grew up in. My girlfriend said that one of the people I went to high school asked her how she knew me. She said "I'm his partner". The woman asked "er, did he tell you....um, about his past?" My girlfriend said "yes he did." Apparently the woman thought she had a secret to convey (and apparently she doesn't know a whole lot about FtM transition - like I could hide it from my girlfriend).

So I guess people still want to out me, but the reaction is making that moot. I'm sure it'll only take another 10 years before people forget

But I'm pretty well constantly reminded by myself that I'm not as I should be. The social reinforcement reminds me that it doesn't really matter.

Dennis

[Parker Lane]

Well...
People don't really see me as male..
When they hear me speak, of course.
Some FTMs are lucky enough to have deeper voice;
flatter chests;
sometimes even facial hair
(which I've only seen once btw)

so I guess I don't pass too well.
Which is why I need T ASAP :]

[Lachlann]

I mostly pass and if not, people can't figure out what I am. Which is fine with me, because in the end I'm laughing about it.

Honestly, most of the time I don't pay attention to how people perceive me.

[Radar]

For example, at work he doesn't comment on how beautiful the sunset is because he says people look at him funny, as if that's not a "guy" comment.

That's... really weird. I've heard guys say similar things before and nobody thought any different. Does this guy just have cranky unhappy co-workers?

[Arch]

That's... really weird. I've heard guys say similar things before and nobody thought any different. Does this guy just have cranky unhappy co-workers?

I don't know. I do know that (much as I like him), I find him to be very dogmatic in his views on gender and transsexuality, to the point where I think he's much less secure than he thinks he projects. Other people in our trans community feel the same way, except they are far less sympathetic and tolerant about it.

In fact, he has been scapegoated a bit, to the point where everything he says and does is, to certain people, automatically suspicious and open to attack. You should see people bristle when he posts a legitimate (if uncomfortable) question on our Yahoo group. I wanted to ask the same question, but he got there first. I can pretty much guarantee you that my question would have been taken as a topic for serious debate, whereas his just got people pissed off. Of course, he phrases things a little less...neutrally...than I do and doesn't understand that how you say a thing can be as important as what you're saying.

Anyway, I'm going into all of this because I think it's an interesting comment on the OP. This friend says it took him a couple of years to get comfortable living as a guy, yet he clearly still feels that he has to carefully watch what he says. He didn't say that he was afraid of being labeled as gay; he said he was given the impression that men don't comment on such things. Perhaps he isn't sure why he has to watch himself.

Perhaps for him it's a question of masculinity rather than sex/gender. Lots of American men are hung up on their masculinity...I would say all, but I don't trust most absolute statements.

[zombiesarepeaceful]

Well...
People don't really see me as male..
When they hear me speak, of course.
Some FTMs are lucky enough to have deeper voice;
flatter chests;
sometimes even facial hair
(which I've only seen once btw)

so I guess I don't pass too well.
Which is why I need T ASAP :]

I have a deeper voice, but I consciously lower it. My voice passes 100% (even though I'm hard on myself about it, sometimes it cracks and I sound like a boy in puberty). My drag dad, who is ftm, has natural facial hair (he had full blown sideburns and stuff) and his voices passes too. He just got on T. I'm glad my voice at least passes cause I swear if it didn't...I'd pretend to be deaf and learn sign language.

[Parker Lane]

I have a deeper voice, but I consciously lower it. My voice passes 100% (even though I'm hard on myself about it, sometimes it cracks and I sound like a boy in puberty). My drag dad, who is ftm, has natural facial hair (he had full blown sideburns and stuff) and his voices passes too. He just got on T. I'm glad my voice at least passes cause I swear if it didn't...I'd pretend to be deaf and learn sign language.

I know, that's why I want to start T soon,
because of the fact that I hate my voice.

I want my syringes pleassse.