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Election Time

Started by Pica Pica, April 13, 2010, 05:20:44 AM

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Pica Pica

So I have to get utterly bored with US politics all the time - I heard about those elections everywhere for months and months and months...

So...

Labour
Tory
Lib Dem

- UKIP, BNP, Green - Monster Raving Loony -


What do you all think?

Post Merge: April 13, 2010, 04:25:47 AM

There is some serious nostalgia going on in this election...(Which is odd considering they are all talking about change).

Yesterday Labour launched their manifesto



Labour's manifesto looks like a communist picture or a cornflakes advert.



There are already jokes that they hope the 'future fair' has candyfloss and dodgems.
For a party claiming to be 'in the future business' they are harking back a little bit - like a future as imagined in 1945.

A nuclear family - I must be a member of one of the very few nuclear families here - and what is with all them fields? The population of this country have been largely weighted to cities for over 150 years... similarly Gordon Brown infront of fields.



The manifesto launch was in a building shortly to be a brand new hospital (this not being yet a hospital is important, as it is against the rules to hold meetings in public service places). The message of course being, 'Look what we've done, we've made hospitals'. It was big, shiny and trying very hard to be optimistic.

It started with a video summing up the manifesto - it's quite cute  - as someone said, 'I'm looking forward to the adult one'.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCO-KwYpH0M&feature=player_embedded#
- It does sum up stuff though.

Now I tend to vote Labour in stuff and I like the rhetoric on fairness, I like any talk on working together and community but there are some big alarm bells ringing out for me.

Gordon Brown pledged the 'largest middle class ever' - this seems a bit wrong to me, if we have the largest middle class ever then the surely the working class and the upper class are more separated then ever. There is huge social inequality in Britain and this doesn't seem a way to solve it but to increase it.

Similarly they want to train us all up to be able to work in skilled areas of science, creative and green technologies...apart from my fear of 'the creativity industry' as a way to permanently kill any creativity whatsoever. But - I have already experienced the labour wish to give as many people a university degree as possible, the result being I have a worthless degree (or two) and I am chasing any job I possibly can. - Funny it's being described as 'the new industrial revolution'.

Also, there is a lot of typical new New Labour type responses to problems - namely targets and boxes to tick and those who tick all the boxes taking over those who do not - very much a one size fits all. The New Labour seems to confuse fair treatment with identical treatment. This tactic is being applied to police (police authorities taking over failing ones) schools (good schools taking over weaker ones) &c...

Working in a school and looking into training to be a primary teacher, education interest me particularly. The whole better schools taking over less successful ones seems a bit dumb to me, I am in a school that is a lesser school that has been taken over by a better one - and it weakens the better school and produces resentment in the better. There is a promise to almost universal one on one tuition, and seeing as I am in that sort of business - would do me good.


Indeed, as a write about this, I am getting increasingly unsure about it all.

- However Labour has introduced a minimum wage, systemised many chaotic and unorganised things, done a lot of good stuff with the NHS - I reckon they have mostly done well and although I do not sync with them completely, it could be worse.

Also, there was a very nice idea about an international banking tax - if that could ever be set up and enforced - I think that'd be the way to go with getting some money of them bankers.

On a lighter note, the song they chose was 'Higher' by Jackie Wilson. Total old school.



Today it was the Conservatives.



So sitting in a large tent inside the shell of what used to be Battersea Power Station, they did lots of talking and presented their manifesto.

The tory speech, rhetoric and design seem to be harking back to the second world war.
Their manifesto is a hardback book, the first ever hardback manifesto, looking a little like an old wartime manual. (Interesting that Labour used new technology - having a digital manifesto given away on usb sticks when the Tories have got this).



The big idea is that it wants people to get involved in what is being called 'the big society'. Very odd, that the party who said 'there is no such thing as society' now wants people to join the 'big society'.

Now I'm not a tory, dislike most tories I have met, hate posh people - but I have to say, I like this rhetoric. I like talk of people taking responsibility and working together for the good of everyone, I like the talk of an open government with the people feeling involved in the decision making process - I like all of this.

I also like the almost wartime pictures and diagrams in the manifesto - I can't find any images low res enough - but there is a serious retro thing going on (interestingly all three parties went to saatchi and saatchi for there election materials). Even the diagrams (which are actually not very informative) are beautiful in an austere kind of way that reminds me of the cover of a 'British Sea Power' album.

Even the talk was WWII, 'We're in this together.' Obviously linking national debt crisis to the war - and very inspiring the talk of joining and and being part of the government is. There were repeated calls to 'do your bit' and the old JFK line was wheeled out.

However, as much as it is thrilling talk - the practical application of it sounds a bit bonkers - and just a little bit more of traditional toryism - let them get on with it and those with the money will do good.

I mean, the rich will be let off any hook as always - there are no talks of raising national minimum wage and it all seems a bit get on with it yourself. There is a policy to be able to start your own school. That seems total nuts - starting your own school - imagine all the people who would want a school to indoctrinate kids, we might actually have people believing in creationism (!). Having people 'involved in the day to day running' of our hospitals sounds like a great way for them to go to rack and ruin. As much as I don't like the Labour box ticking approach, surely any approach is better than 'sod it, run it your own way'.

Then there is a thing about letting local communities make more decisions on new building works and changes in their local areas - like a local referendum on what size and shape building to be built (was the example given). That sounds great, I'd love to feel that involved, but knowing the British people it would only mean one thing - nothing would ever get built - people don't like change and they would always vote against it - they would always vote for their own needs and not society's needs. That's the flaw with the 'big society'

Finally they said they would pay for stuff by 'savings made' - but never said what they were going to cut to get said savings.

So the talk is good, but I am unsure they are really saying what they sound like they're saying.

Finally, UKIP launched their manifesto today, bless.



This is the party of the grumpy old man in the post office queue - they don't like foreigners, they want to get out of europe, they hate immigration and everyone agrees with them except they don't say it because of political correctness gone mad...

...what they do have going for them is an actual interesting person (!) in there MEP Nigel Farage.

Oh - and the Green Party



I know sod all about them but they do have a very good video manifesto themselves.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHLfzPFsz5c&feature=player_embedded#

Lib Dems tomorrow, looking forward to them.




'For the circle may be squared with rising and swelling.' Kit Smart
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justmeinoz

We are gearing up for Federal and State (Victoria) elections later this year.

So far we are still in pre-pre-election mode with the Liberals trying to get their policies together, and Labour (in Govt at both levels) trying to get out of the mess they have made in various areas.

So far we have had a Home Insulation program as part of the  national economic stimulus package. This  basically ended up with dodgy companies installing dangerous ceiling insulation which has caused at least 50 fires, and 4 deaths of workers electrocuted.
Peter Garrett (former Midnight Oil singer) had his Environment Ministerial portfolio cut back and the knives are still out.
This week it looks as though the national School building program has spent 66 billion for 30 billion worth of work, and the Deputy PM Julia Gillard is desperately trying to cover her arse. 
Here in Victoria the Planning Minister has had to explain how he didn't know a cousin was involved in a developement which was to be fast tracked through the planning process.

I love watching people stuff things up worse than I ever could! :laugh:
"Don't ask me, it was on fire when I lay down on it"
  •  

Pica Pica

Midnight Oil are quite a good band though
'For the circle may be squared with rising and swelling.' Kit Smart
  •  

justmeinoz

As Minister for the Environment he makes a good rock singer!
"Don't ask me, it was on fire when I lay down on it"
  •  

Nathan.

I'll be voting Lib Dem. I'm excited as it's my first time voting.
  •  

rejennyrated

Personally I am a floating voter who has voted for all three parties at one time or another.

1974 - too young to vote. Probably would have voted conservative though.
1979 - Voted Conservative.
1983 - Voted Social Democrat
1987 - Voted Liberal Democrat
1992 - Voted Labour
1997 - Voted Liberal Democrat
2001 - Voted Liberal Democrat
2005 - Voted Liberal Democrat
2010 - Will vote Conservative.

Unfortunately on this occasion the Lib-dems have picked a rather arrogant lesbian in our constituency and having met her I didn't exactly warm to her. (obviously her sexuality is no issue for me but she just seemed to be one of those who had "issues" which isn't what I want in my MP.) Plus they have Mr nobody Clegg as their leader. Why they didn't choose Vince Cable is beyond me.

I really like David Cameron and that alone swings it for the Conservatives. I went to school with loads of people like him (like him I went to a rather exclusive private school) so I have at least the illusion that I understand where he is coming from and therefore I am more likely to spot when he is not being honest. Tony Blair wasn't too bad, but Gordon Brown has a faintly puritanical streak which I distrust.

There are only two parties whom I could NEVER vote for - the BNP (for obvious reasons - like I would prefer to live out my days outside of a concentration camp when someone takes a dislike to my trans status) and UKIP - UKIP is in my view really BNP Lite and therefore subject ot much of the same thinking. In fact of the two I'm probably fractionally more likely to vote BNP on the basis that at least you would know what you were getting, but in all honestly hell is more likely to freeze over than that I would vote for either of those two reactionary and dangerous extremists!

  •  

lisagurl

QuoteI heard about those elections everywhere for months and months and months...

Then stop being passive and watching the media. Learn about you candidates by visiting their headquarters and talk to real live people. Politics is not entertainment, Voting is every citizens responsibility. It is not designed to be fun.
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Pica Pica

nah, you've missed the point again. What I was saying was that I was bored of US politics because in web-land you can't ignore it - so I thought it time to chat about the politics of where I live.
'For the circle may be squared with rising and swelling.' Kit Smart
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Cindy

We've just finished our election in South Australia. Labour was going for a third term, difficult to do here. The Premier, Mike Rann who was the most popular polly managed to get himself caught by his knickers in an affair with a Parliamentary staffer. The Liberals who are so full of factions that no two people can agree with each other managed to pull themselves together behind a new leader. They had been changing leaders every six months ::). The day before the election one clown in the Liberal party basically said publicly she would challenge for the leadership no matter what.
Liberals lost. Labor won. Labor have done stuff all for the previous three years and will probably do stuff all for the next three.

Since the election the liberals have changed their deputy three times ::)

Major election pledges? A knew AFL footy stadium in the centre of the city - I hate AFL footy. A new hospital in an area that has no parking or access.

Ahh the democratic process. Certainly better than the alternative though. Voting BTW is compulsory here. Is it in the UK?

Is the politicians rorting issue in the UK a factor? I read about it here, people using parliament money to buy duck ponds etc. Sounded great :laugh:

Cindy


Ahh democracy.
  •  

Pica Pica

We don't have to vote, and many do not. The turn out for X-factor is greater than parliament. Our general culture is quite apathetic and grumbly anyway - and the politicians haven't helped.

We don't often have sex scandals and when we do it is usually kinky, often a bit of leather or at least some fun behind a hedge. It turned out John Major, the last tory PM was a bit of a goer but we only found out about all that ten years later.

As for the expenses thing, it is that, along with the poor economy, that is driving this election. There were some crazy things - one guy spending two and a half times my yearly salary of public money on little houses for ducks that float on the pond. Another on 'moat-cleaning' and another on porn sites.... Not made us all happy bunnies.

As for the Aussies - the tories were like that for 13 years but they have got themselves together now to take on Labour, I'm not sure that's a good thing.

Post Merge: April 15, 2010, 05:13:29 AM

Oh - and our new thing - the first TV debates ever in our elections. (Not that it makes any sense because we don't elect the leader anyway, we elect out local party representative and not all the parties are represented at the tv debate - but hey ho
'For the circle may be squared with rising and swelling.' Kit Smart
  •  

Cindy

Hey yes
We had TV debates as well between the 'leaders'of the parties, even though we vote for local members only. It has become very American (?) I think in the the 'leader' is the one of issue and not the local member. I have to admit I do not agree with the political persuasion of my local member but she has been very active and has helped me with issues.

We still have big debated over compulsory voting. I still think it is a good thing. You have to vote or rather you have to turn up to vote, you can spoil or just not vote if you wish; but you have to exercise your democratic wish by registering a vote. The anti-compulsory voting group are (of course) also politically motivated, it would benefit the Liberals by not having compulsory voting. BTW our Liberals are left wing of your Tories, about the same as your Labor party. The Labor party is right wing of your labor party about the same as the our Liberal party. Oh the choice.

Many, many years ago I lived in the UK (over 35 years ago) the local councils had great power. Is that still true? I came from Liverpool and the council were so left wing they made Stalin look conservative (a joke BTW people), I think Thatcher did stuff to prevent it happening but I have to admit I have not followed the facts. I should Google but first hand conversation is more interesting, I got the impression that Thatcher destroyed (?) the Tories, I don't know why. She seemed popular and hated at the same time. I never really followed through the history.

I'm suddenly and totally knocked. Here  I am asking about history. I was expelled from History classes at high school for my fervent argument that the study of history is/was totally useless (I was 13, just came out as TG, rejected, angry and yea).
Sorry Pica.
Let's enjoy an interesting post.

Oh BTW have you received the automatic phone calls as yet?

Hi, I'm XXXXXXXXX, don't hang up. YOU are important to me, etc etc


Cindy
  •  

Pica Pica

Some interesting things with these debates don't you think? Gordon Brown in proving to be quite a relaxed and decent speaker in this second one - don't agree with most of what he is saying, but he is saying it well.
'For the circle may be squared with rising and swelling.' Kit Smart
  •  

rejennyrated

Rather disappointed with David C. I am agreeing with quite a few things he is saying but they aren't coming over very well. He's usually a very effective and personable dabater but he seems seriously off form of late.

Nick Clegg is again doing a good job - shame his candidate in our consituency is such a twerp! I honestly can't vote for her. She seems like an ultra arrogant lesbian separatist - nothing wrong with being a lesbian - but being a lesbian who can't be bothered to deal with me or answer my correspondence simply because of my trans past is not really helpful or professional.

Don't agree with most of Gordon Brown - but he is at least putting his case over fairly well.

Last time it was Nick Clegg first David C. second and Gordon brown third. This time I think it's Gordon Brown who has the lead - not sure about the other two - they seem neck and neck.
  •  

Pica Pica

There is a part of me tempted to vote lib dem, just on the off chance they got a whopping great big chunk of the seats, to see if a big change in parties really did make any difference.

Post Merge: April 22, 2010, 03:34:21 PM

Gordon Brown has been compared physically to a Boglin :)
'For the circle may be squared with rising and swelling.' Kit Smart
  •  

childofwinter

I usually vote either Labour, Lib Dem or Green. If I had to vote for one of the three main parties, I would vote Lib Dem. The Greens, however, are closest to my views, which are quite far to the left.
I have no concrete idea of my gender identity, but I believe I am an Androgyne.
  •  

RebeccaFog


Why don't you peoples vote for Arnold. He's beaten California down and he can do it to your island too. Then you'll have a German in charge and my great great uncle Wolfgang Kahler will have won his bet that a German would one day rule the UK.

Plus, Arnold's got a bad ticker so you could take him out pretty quick if it became necessary.
  •  

tekla

Well all the talk about coming over well, and getting points across - rather than what the points themselves actually are - well, that's American Politics at its best and I'm glad the island has finally caught Election Fever Yankee-Doodle Style.

You just have to make them longer.  We had people running Sara Palin for President in 2012 before she even lost the VP in 2008 - that's on long endless campaign going on over here.

Love the guy in the wheat field - or whatever.  Very folksy and outdoorsy.  Do you're politicians pose with guns a lot?  Our do.  It's scary.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
  •  

Pica Pica

Happy St George's day peeps - business as usual.

Yeah, Gordon Brown and his golden brown wheat field - sure it was only chosen to evoke the Stranglers.

If our politicians posed with a gun they would usually take a huge dive in the polls, similarly if they mentioned any religious beliefs. (Or indeed if they espoused too great a degree of patriotism).

The (slightly pointless) tv debates have really altered the dynamic of this election - the usual rounds of mothers meetings, village/town hall debates and leafletting has taken a serious back seat - as has some of the talk on policies. (My house hasn't received a single leaflet, but then this area is probably too stuck up to have riff raff like politicians in it.) However, there is still a lot of policy talk, and much of it was talked about in yesterdays debate - there are much fewer soundbites and promises in a UK election, those things just don't go down very well with the cynical voter. (Jeremy Paxman suggested that a national slogan should be, 'yeah, right.)

The big game changer is that the tv thing has given the Lib Dems (not in power since the first part of the twentieth century) a huge boost and they are coming top of the polls - the debate has enlarged national discussion from just two parties to all three and the likelihood of our voting system being altered over the next 5 years is pretty high, due to the Lib Dems requiring a PR system of voting as part of entering a coalition with either Lab or Con in the event of a hung parliament or a small majority leadership.

However, I also expect the polls to be very inaccurate - the people may tell a pollster they are going to vote Lib Dem but I can see most people bottling out of it when it comes to making the cross.
'For the circle may be squared with rising and swelling.' Kit Smart
  •  

Metamorph

I totally agree with that last sentancePica. Lib Dems have gone up so much in stature in these debates but i just dont think it will be enough THIS time round. 4 years in the future i reckon theyll be a force to be reckoned with, especially if they prove themselves well in a hung parlament.

As for the debates themselves, Gordon Brown seemed quite solid throughout but was a bit too quick to attack the other 2 on so many occasions. it seemed more like a personal thing rather than directly at their policies. didnt like the way he was grinning at some of the things they were saying either. He just shouldnt smile! Cameron seemed to deliver on his (rehearsed) points but didnt bring as much substance as i expected. As for Clegg, well people are paying attention now and anything he does is seen as a victory in some form.
  •  

Miniar

Labour sounds vague.

The Conservatives obviously intend to save money by not running schools and hospitals any more. Privatization talk is what it sounds like and you know what that means.
When privatization of essentials takes place (public transport, hospitals, banks, schools, etc) the 1% of people who have most of the money already become richer, while everyone else just gets... well.. profanity is involved there.
Is like the USA's healthcare system.
If you're insured, you can get help. Only, your insurance doesn't cover this or that unless you ask for it first (like that thing with needing to have your ambulance "pre approved".. unless you intend to pay for it yourself.. sh*t like that). If you're not insured, well... sucks to be you then eh?
At least, that's what I'm seeing there.
AND THAT STUFF'S DANGEROUS!

The green party sounds like it's promising lots, but without looking at the details of "how" they intend to get things done, I can't really say more.

I know nothing of the lib-dem and thus have no opinion of 'em...

All I can say for certain is...
I personally, as an Icelander, have reason to not be too fond of Brown, and I can't help but to think of a Tshirt I've seen around town with the caption "Brown is the colour of poo."
And I would rather set fire to myself than to vote for a party that appears to be dead set on increasing privatization as much as possible..

So... on what limited info I have, I'd probably vote for the green ones, if I had a vote that is.



"Everyone who has ever built anywhere a new heaven first found the power thereto in his own hell" - Nietzsche
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