Boyfriend in the mix...

[Nikolai James]

I introduced myself on a different section of the forum a little while back and I've been lurking. Hate for my first contribution to the forum to be so whiny - I apologize for that, haha, and for how long this'll probably be.

I've always known something didn't match and the older I got the more I wanted to make it right by transitioning. I just wanted to get to the age I am now so I could actually tackle everything head on and DO something. Now that I'm here things aren't so simple.. I made the terrific mistake of letting myself date my best childhood friend, go figure. We've always been drawn to one another and the opportunity presented itself so we jumped at it. We've had a thing going for a little over a year now but have been interested in each other since.. God, third grade, now that I think about it.

He likes my mind and the fact that I'm not feminine. But he's definitely straight. Of course he is, otherwise I wouldn't be typing this right now, right? When I opened up about this he kind of went "I figured. It's okay, I love you regardless and I support you."
Different from staying together. We talked about that too. Said "I'll support you whatever you do and care about you but I'm not attracted to guys to that level. We'd have to just be friends."
Yeah, I saw that one coming. I couldn't ever expect him to stay with me if I did something about my dysphoria. Hell, I feel lucky I can even talk to him about it, not to mention he accepts it and wants to be with me anyway.

But I'm still kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place. There's no way to really compromise on something like this.. I've gotta pick between somebody I care stupid, incredible amounts about, or taking steps to be comfortable with myself. Which, right now, includes just presenting as male.. name and pronouns, binding, packing. I haven't even let myself consider anything else given my predicament but when transitioning was actually a goal I felt able to meet, hormone treatment and chest reconstruction were on the list. I want to be SEEN as male. I wish I knew why. The only person I can talk to about this is my aunt, who doesn't necessarily understand where I'm coming from but has an open mind and knows what it's like to want to be something you're not (dysphoria of a different kind, she's the otherkin sort). She suggests I find a way to be comfortable being female-bodied and male-minded, and settle with some form of androgyny. Ha! If it were only so simple! That's what I've done before I was even aware of it and what I've continued to try. But being female-bodied with a male mind isn't the problem. That'd be great, if I felt like the girl body belonged. But I don't.
Naturally I've tried to make myself believe otherwise. I'll go, hey, I'm an okay-looking chick. Got a cute face and a nice enough body. I've got things I admire in girls who turn my head: nice hips and small but perky breasts and nice legs and a nice ass and nice shoulders and all of these things that would be nice if I wanted them but I don't. I just don't. I tried to. I'll try to talk myself out of it by saying it'd be so much easier to just want what I have and be happy with it.
Yeah, well. Everybody knows how well that works.

I'm staying with the boy for the moment - I like him way too much. Too much to end it and, according to him be just friends, but I know I wouldn't be able to, and too much for my own good, because ignoring this stuff has never made it go away and if anything made it worse but I'm doing it against my better judgment anyway. And I'm a bit mentally worn from it, anyhow.. don't feel strong enough to banter with the dysphoria, and to face the difficulties transitioning represents right now.

Primarily I guess I wanted to talk about it to some people who actually KNOW what gender dysphoria is like. And I guess I mostly needed to get it off my chest. But insight and opinions and experiences are really appreciated. Most of all thanks for listening to me ramble, haha.

[kyril]

You'd be amazed at how many of us are in the exact same predicament.

I'm married to mine.

[Silver]

<-- In a similar situation.

Perhaps put it off then? Is it an emergency to transition now?

[Nikolai James]

Crappy boat to be in but I'm glad to hear I'm not in it alone.

Yeah, putting it off is what I'm doing. I don't feel too strongly compelled to transition, exactly, especially not immediately, but it's wearing on me a little not being able to do ANYTHING about it.. bind or assert a male name, nada. I guess I could but, I don't know. I'd feel pretty guilty about it. I do like him enough to spend, say, the next ten years with him, and I'm worried will I regret putting it off for that long? Will I start resenting him because I'm stuck with an ultimatum? Just a lot of BS that goes through my head and causes me nothing but anxiety, but as anybody here knows it can be a little bit difficult not to focus on.

I've got half the mind to go and change just my middle name to give myself some kind of relief. "Marie" never fit me much anyway.

[Silver]

Well I say go for it, but what do I know?

[kyril]

(shrugs) I bind when I leave the house because I need to. And I use a male name and pronouns with my friends when he's not around. Neither of those is going to make you a guy in your boyfriend's mind. Neither will make him less attracted to you. For that to happen, you'd need some sort of physical modification. Hormones would screw with him. But socially transitioning, if he knows what's going on and is cool with it in every sense except for not being gay, should be an option for you. Except that you probably don't want to ask him to switch names/pronouns.

[miniangel]

Well, I know nothing personally about GID but I can make observations and ask questions. So, is it more important to you to be seen as male in the world in general or to be seen as male by the people you love/respect/want to be with? Is a relationship worth the self-denial? If you have to make an open pretense of being someone you aren't, in order to be with someone, is it going to be worth it in the long run?

1000 to 1, your dysphoria isn't going to disappear, so you can choose to live with it or choose to do something about it.  The odds of your friend actually changing his opinion are unable to be assessed but I'm thinking they are better than 1000 to 1. He may surprise you in the end. He's going into the unknown and it may not be as off-putting as he imagines. Don't die wondering.

[Nikolai James]

I'm not sure I could ask him to go with that. If I were to do it I guess I'd want him to be on board.. not because I feel like I need him to be but just out of respect. If it gets to that point and I can't stand it anymore maybe I will. I did try to outline for him what "doing something about it" would mean right now but I don't think he really got it. I couldn't have expected him to though.

minniemouse, those are all valid questions and ones I've turned over again and again with myself. I guess it's important I'm seen as male to everybody, including people I know and those close to me as well as strangers. I know right now it's worth just dealing with it but I have no idea if it will be in the future.. I wonder about it. And I wonder if it'd be worth ending the relationship to be able to do something about it. I guess you never know until after the fact but I've never been a big risk-taker. Tricky.

[Basiliximab]

Your situation sounds so much like mine, it's kind of frightening... right down to the middle name! I rather should say "sounded" like mine 'cause I did end up going ahead with transitioning (and changing my first and middle name).

Different from staying together. We talked about that too. Said "I'll support you whatever you do and care about you but I'm not attracted to guys to that level. We'd have to just be friends."

This is like exactly what my fiancé said too when I first told him. We are still friends too, and still live together. Well, we were "just living together" for about three years before I told him (dating for seven, but when I say just living together I mean we weren't doing anything intimately 'cause it was just too dysphoric for me. Which I have to say is really something since I had the impression that many guys wouldn't be into a relationship like that. We still hug and things like that, so it's not a totally unromantic relationship).

It's been about five months now since I've told him and two months since I've started transitioning. So far there hasn't been any real noticeable physical changes, except the voice sounds a little lower. I keep wondering if my roommate's (as I call him now, since I don't call him my fiancé anymore) sentiments will change once I actually start looking like a guy. He claims that he wants to stay with me long-term though. We are talking about buying land here that we can live on when I retire (since I want to move around and live in different parts of the country for years at a time and he can't do that—b/c of his job—so he suggested that perhaps I can get land here and he can work on building my dream house on it, and that could be where we live when I retire. I thought it was a real charming idea).

So anyway, I just wanted to share my experience with you so far—and to let you know that you are definitely not alone!

[Radar]

Is a relationship worth the self-denial? If you have to make an open pretense of being someone you aren't, in order to be with someone, is it going to be worth it in the long run?

I can answer this from experience- no. It will eat at your soul, the GID only gets worse and it causes a strain on the other person- whether they know about your GID or not.

Transition is a selfish thing. We do it for ourselves and ourselves only. There will be people, including us, who will get hurt along the way. But you eventually get to a point where there's just no other option. We all will lose something, but gain so much more in it's place.

[Roro]

Just another person jumping in to say, "I understand."

I'm married to a man that I love dearly, and am stuck between a rock and a hard place when it comes to thinking about transitioning. Currently my only action is inaction, which sucks, but I figure in time it'll become clearer what needs to happen.

A good deal of people tell me to just transition, jump in with both feet, and don't look back. Yeah, that's an option. It's also my choice to stay the way I am, try to deal as long as I can, and keep my marriage together. I don't want to take ten years together and chuck it away. We've been talking in depth about the situation for the last three years or so, and so far the only conclusion we've reached is that doing nothing is obviously not going to work in the long run, but doing something is not a chance either of us want to take at the moment.

[Arch]

My ex knew about me almost from the get-go. As long as I only talked about transition and didn't do anything about it, he was fine. We had a terrific relationship that other people envied.

If it had been merely a good relationship, I might easily have transitioned ten years earlier. But the main thing holding me back was him. I didn't want to lose him. Eventually the dysphoria became too much to bear, and I went back INTO the closet. For years. Becoming more and more messed up and more and more distant.

He is of course responsible for his own response to that, but he wound up getting dragged down with me. By the time I came back out of the closet and knew I needed to transition, the relationship had been on the rocks for several years and (according to him) was irreparably damaged. He broke up with me three months into my HRT and two months before my top surgery. We lived together for the rest of the year while I got my life and our affairs sorted out, but he became increasingly hostile, agitated, and erratic.

I killed that relationship. Or, rather, my being trans killed that relationship. Yet many of my "masculine" characteristics contributed to our being so happy together for so long. It must have been kind of like the dream that so many straight men subconsciously long for...a life partner, a girl in bed, and a best buddy to socialize with...all rolled into one. We even went girl-watching together.

Bottom line? He wasn't gay and didn't want to be seen as gay. One day he cried and told me that I would become a different person. Later, he said he feared the changes to my body. I told him I didn't want bottom surgery, but he said he didn't know where it would REALLY end. He was right. I'm leaning toward bottom surgery now, and I've been loosening up in a lot of ways that are fine in a friend but not in a lover (as far as he's concerned, I mean). I'm not a different person, but I'm definitely different.

I'll be honest. I wish I had never gone back into the closet. I wish we had hashed this out back in 1997-1998. The relationship might have ended after ten years instead of twenty, but we both would have avoided a great deal of pain. And I probably would have saved thousands of dollars in therapy. The damage I did to him was minuscule compared to the damage I did to myself.

I realize that your situation is different, but I've only heard of a couple of guy-FTM relationships that survived transition. Some guys here at Susan's are in the process of transitioning, and their relationships are still intact--so far. If your man is already not cool with the idea, that's not a very encouraging sign. On the other hand, how many straight men have said, "I love you and want us to stay together beyond transition...I'll try..." and then wound up being too squicked out to even make through one year?

Just remember that the longer you stay with him before you transition, the more it is likely to hurt him. And possibly yourself as well.

[kyril]

We had a terrific relationship that other people envied.
...
It must have been kind of like the dream that so many straight men subconsciously long for...a life partner, a girl in bed, and a best buddy to socialize with...all rolled into one. We even went girl-watching together.

This is extremely familiar - my good relationships, including my current one, are just like this. Best friends, who also happen to be attracted to each other. And that's so hard to even contemplate giving up...I made my peace with it before I decided to come out to him, but it took me a long time. I don't know how long it's going to take him to even come to terms with the implications.

And I don't know if I should break it off, or if I should just wait for him to get squicked and break it off himself. I wonder if delaying like this is being selfish - am I really being considerate of him, or am I just trying to make this his problem so I don't have to feel guilty?

[LordKAT]

Serious thoughts Kyril. I don't envy you as no matter what you choose, you will wonder if it was the right choice. I hope things work out for the best.

[Arch]

And I don't know if I should break it off, or if I should just wait for him to get squicked and break it off himself. I wonder if delaying like this is being selfish - am I really being considerate of him, or am I just trying to make this his problem so I don't have to feel guilty?

THIS is very familiar to ME. I couldn't really tell how much of my "holding on" was selfish, how much was real love, how much was just familiarity.

When I came back out of the closet, I realized that I could finally, finally start living life as the gay man I have always been inside. And I began to wonder: if my partner did indeed manage to make his peace with my transition, did I really want to live the rest of my life with a straight man?

At one point before I started T, he seemed to be negotiating our would-be gay relationship. He said, "I'm not gay, and I don't want to be part of the gay world. It's okay if you do it, but I don't want any part of it." I said that since he wasn't gay, I could well understand that and wouldn't try to make him part of that world. I figured that somewhere along the line we would find a happy medium. Of course, we never got that far.

Still, through all of that, I found myself thinking, "I want to be with a gay man. Is this going to work?" I decided to give it my best shot. I never had the chance to see that effort come to its fruition. And through it all, I wondered how much of my desire to stay in the relationship was based on fear. Fear of going through transition alone. Fear of being alone. Fear of entering gay communities as a man. Fear of being outed and ridiculed in those communities. Fear that no gay man would ever want me. Fear that nobody would ever want me. Not to mention the logistics. We both made our life plans on the assumption that we would be a couple. How would a breakup affect my education, my career, my everyday life? Whom would I designate to pull the plug if I were in an irreversible coma? Who would support me when times were tough? Whom could I call in an emergency?

While I believe that I would have been better off facing my gender issues head-on ten years ago, I know that I did what I had to do to survive and not jump off a cliff. Kyril, your situation may be different; but I strongly feel that people in our situation make the decisions they are equipped to make at the time. In that respect, we make the right decisions for ourselves. I imagine that you will do the same.

[kyril]

Arch, are you writing that post from my future? Everything you said is something I've thought about. Literally, every word.

[Arch]

Arch, are you writing that post from my future? Everything you said is something I've thought about. Literally, every word.

That's the signpost up ahead. Next stop, the Twilight Zone!!!!

Seriously, I'm not surprised. Now that I think about it, I'll bet a lot of people--not necessarily trans people--have had the same range of feelings when they were confronted with complex situations. I guess I'm not such a freak after all.

[Nikolai James]

Haha, it's a little hard to read to all that; it hits so close to home and facing the fact that no matter what I do this will probably not turn out well is riddling me with anxiety. I guess at least my boyfriend and I are only a year in and we're both 18, so we don't really have that much invested into it - but we WANT that much invested to it. Hard to think about letting go of somebody I've wanted for probably eight, nine years after I just finally got them.

He's actually more optimistic about the whole thing than I am. Says "we'll find a happy medium, figure something out, we can still be friends." Realistically I'm aware none of it's that simple. I broke that to him and he cried. He said he didn't want to lose me because, like you guys, I'm his significant other and we're sexually compatible and his best friend all at once. We both kinda broke down, haha.

Now he's not exactly straight and narrow.. he can point out a good looking guy and he kissed his friend once. But it's obvious he doesn't have any sexual attraction to them, really. I can say I'm not planning on bottom surgery but I don't KNOW that and even then, it'd be a lot to ask him to deal with and I'm not sure he'd be keen on being seen as gay.

I guess i'm doing the same as you did, Arch. Back to the closet. Trying to settle myself into some kind of androgyny, or make myself actually believe that if my hair gets long enough who knows, maybe I'll like femininity. I know this is a horrible idea and it can't end well for either party. I don't really know what else to do, though; I like him too much to just give up on it but at the same time I wonder if I should. It's already causing distress for both of us.

->-bleeped-<- sucks.

[jillblum]

MTF Chime in. It really comes down to when we're ready I guess. Regardless of who we love or how much we love them. I'm married to an amazing woman. In so many ways she's just a great partner. We have been a positive force in each others lives for the last ten years. I did a start/stop transition last year. Mainly stopped because I saw the stress it put on her. She's bi and been in a an LTR with a woman in the past. She didn't sign on for this though. If she met me as Jill I know we would've just run off into the sunset. She didn't! I have to accept the fact that I'll probably take the last steps alone. There is no easy answer or fix. There is however this community of beautiful humans we can decompress with. 

The anxiety part does suck! Hang in there dude.
You know your emotional pain is crazy strong when major sugeries make you feel better

[Arch]

You know your emotional pain is crazy strong when major sugeries make you feel better

Wow. So true. I never thought of it that way before.