Recent talks with my mum

[Nemo]

So far, my mum has been great in her support; she'll refer to me by my new name, corrects herself when she slips up, and even picks up my housemate on mistakes when she visits. We talk for ages on the phone about the transition process, and she takes an interest in documentaries.

Recently, however, I'm starting to feel the documentaries were a bad idea. They all seem to centre on people who have known since early childhood that they were definitely in the wrong body, a few of those people attempted suicide. She has since tried to remind me of the times that I was happy to be female, despite my reminding her it was more about fitting in with the crowd, and that not all TS folk get that dysphoric. But now it gets better.

I had an ultrasound last night, to find out if I have PCOS. I don't - what I have instead is a dermoid cyst that's likely been present from birth; it's just grown to about 4-5cm over the decades, and is the reason I have excess leg hair and other such things. While I'm concerned about the masculinising effects fading once it's removed, she's taken this a step further, and seems convinced that once that's gone, I may start to feel happy as a woman again as my hormone levels get back to normal - therefore I "could be making a terrible mistake" in going through transition.

Neither of us are doctors, so if others can shed any light on this theory I'd be glad to hear them - more to prove her wrong, TBH, 'cause it's starting to really get me down - it feels more like she's trying to talk me out of this. Yes, I will be talking about this with my GP in a couple of weeks, but I'd like some extra input in the meantime, just to put my mind at rest.

Thanks in advance if you've managed to read through all this

[Asfsd4214]

Hormones don't change gender identity.

For one its been tried as a treatment for dysphoria without success
For two, it would mean all or at the very least most people with gender dysphoria have a hormonal condition to begin with, which is usually not the case.

Ultimately I think you need to trust in yourself, do whatever you feel is the right course of action.

My personal opinion and experience (having blood work pre HRT) is that hormones have absolutely no affect at changing gender identity, only in causing distress through incongruity.

[Asfsd4214]

Once the adult neural pathways have been laid down, they cannot change via the introduction or reduction of hormones.
The only known method for 'curing' GID is electro-convulsive therapy (which burns out the neural pathways). However, ECT has horrific side effects and often leaves the person a shell of their former self - and with various new mental disorders to deal with.

Feel free to inform your mother that she's simply engaging in baseless wishful thinking.
Of course, you could humour her by having it removed and then point out that you don't feel any different - so the removal changed nothing.

Umm, may I ask where this ECT thing comes from? Because I'm not sure I've ever heard of it being used solely to treat gender dysphoria, let alone successfully.

Also my mother has had ECT's for her own psychiatric issues, and although I think she'd be the first to say it's not a good thing, the only long lasting side effect she's ever told me about is diminished long term perception of time.

[Asfsd4214]

What do you mean?

I know of at least one documented case where it was used to treat GID - and it worked. However the person lost their short-term memory and suffered quite a drop in IQ.

The side effects vary, but it's generally agreed that ECT should be a last-ditch treatment.

I tried googling but would you happen to have on hand the case you know of?

[Nemo]

There is also the fact that ovarian cysts are very common, whereas transsexuals aren't. Also:

Hormones don't change gender identity.

Yeah, that's what I thought; if that were the case, transsexualism would be non-existant for various reasons. She won't listen to me, of course.

The only known method for 'curing' GID is electro-convulsive therapy (which burns out the neural pathways). However, ECT has horrific side effects and often leaves the person a shell of their former self - and with various new mental disorders to deal with.

Thankfully Mum does know someone who's had that for other reasons - and would most likely agree with you :S The very idea terrifies me, TBH.

Feel free to inform your mother that she's simply engaging in baseless wishful thinking.
Of course, you could humour her by having it removed and then point out that you don't feel any different - so the removal changed nothing.

Yeah, I intend to - and feel a lot better since that talk, thankfully. I'm more concerned about losing things like leg hair, but I'd rather that than the other problems it causes by being there. Just hope I'd be able to get a top-up of T after the op... well, I can dream

Thanks for the replies

[jennajane]

First good luck having the cyst removed, surgery is never fun.  I think it is really clear, as others have said, that adult hormone levels have nothing to do with gender identity, but people often go there first.  Clearly if all it took was a little more estrogen or a bit more testosterone I think many would try the cure instead of transition. 

Also Mums can be that way, my mom is super supportive too, and we talk at length about therapy and transition, but I always feel every time I try and make some progress I face some resistance from her, I think it is clear that should would rather me stay presenting male as I think she feels this would be easier for me (and definitely her).  My father is worse and he feels that I should be able to accept myself without the need for physical changes, unfortunately it is not that easy, and that is what I have been trying up until now.

But in the end I am hopeful that both my parents will come around, they haven't been dealing with it nearly as long as me.

jenna!

[rejennyrated]

Quote from Dr John Randall as far back as 1977 - he was my shrink at the time and indeed also the then leading expert in the subject in the UK.

"ECT simply does not work for gender patients. The vast majority either become hugely impaired in thier mental functions or indeed become suicideal following the treatment"

Its use has also subsequently been outlawed as a form of torture in many countries.

It may work in a very few cases but the question in my mind would be were those people truly transgendered to start with, as you have to remember that there are several other conditions which can manifest themsleves as a pseudo form of the condition.

Be very careful about anything you hear about this. There is a LOT of downright false information being put about on the net by the religious right who see this barbaric treatment as a way to enforce their rules for living on us. I agree genderlife should be a reliable source, but even they can occasionally be mislead.

So no offense to anyone else with a different opinion but personally I simply don't buy any of that and nor do I really care what supposed evidence there might seem to be or where it came from. I myself would still be ultra suspicious of its authenticity. As far as I'm concerned ECT is an outdated and largely discredited idea which also takes no account of all the recent excellent work done by people like Dr Vincent Harley, the reknowned molecular biologist, in Australia, which suggests that far from being only about neural pathways or any of that, this is at least in part a very subtle genetic condition with minute epigenetic triggers.

The bottom line, and where we do all agree though, is no your hormones are unlikely to be the cause.

[rejennyrated]

Please, don't start the 'true transsexual' nonsense again.

Good lord no! - I assure you nothing is further from my mind than that rubbish - but it is a fact that any gender patient has to first undergo a general psychiatric screening because sometimes patients are suffering from other delusional disorders and when placed on anti psychotics reveal the fact that they arent trans at all.

So I'm just pointing out that sometimes schitzoid patients present as pseudo trans when actually they aren't at all. As a matter of record my second best friend in the world, who by coincidence, right now as I type this is sitting just across my living room, Dr Russell Reid, was very nearly struck off for his alledged failure to spot just such a such a patient some years ago.

[Asfsd4214]

Regardless of whether a person is transgender or not, if you apply enough ECT to a victim (I'm leery of saying 'patient') you can burn out any mental trait. Gender identity is not magically exempt from this effect.

I'm not sure neurology is that simple.