Difficulty Changing Gender Marker on Social Security but successful in the end

[Valeriedances]

I had some problems today changing my gender marker for my Social Security, but was eventually successful after a long, drawn out battle of will that took nearly two hours. I ended being the last customer in the building at the end of the day.

I met with initial resistance from the clerk who insisted that I needed to have an amended birth certificate first. I knew that was wrong from everything I had read in the past, but since I wasn't expecting a problem I didn't bring any supporting SSA policy rule documentation with me. He left several times for long periods to discuss with a supervisor or others.

I had brought my surgeons letter, my passport, Florida drivers license (with gender Female) and existing social security card.

The clerk also claimed that since the surgeons letter was from outside the U.S. it would not be accepted.

On his third trip back to his desk he gathered up my identification, handed them back to me, and told me there was nothing he could do. I was in tears at that point feeling I was possibly facing discrimination, ignorance on his part or a combination of the two. I told him, but I am female, your records are wrong.

I had about given up, was feeling dejected, when I got angry (well, angry for me) and asked to see proof of the policy requiring an amended birth certificate or whatever requirements they have for gender marker change. I decided I wasn't going to take his word and simply leave.

He left for a much longer time and eventually came back 30-45 minutes later with a big stack of papers/printouts. He said it took alot of research but he found the rules. I was surprised he worked that hard on it. He wouldn't admit he was wrong vocally but started typing up a new application for social security, asking me for different things. Once finished he told me it would be effective beginning tomorrow and gave me a receipt as proof of application request.

So I did it, yaay! 


For those of you doing this in the future, check the wiki which has a link to the SSA manual stating the policy rule.

https://www.susans.org/Transitioning/Documentation/6987.html

Or go directly to the SSA Manual - RM 00203.215 Changing Numident Data - Other than Name Change

http:/policy.ssa.gov/poms.nsf/links/0100203215

Correction/Change - Sex

Sex-Change Operation: The surgeon or attending physician must provide a letter verifying the sex change surgery has been completed. All documents must clearly identify the NH.

IMPORTANT: Numident sex data is used for identification purposes only. Do not use the sex data shown on the Numident to determine whether a valid marital relationship exists in a claims situation. Rather, consult appropriate State law to make a determination whether a valid marital relationship exists

Keying Error: To correct a keying error, the prior application must be reviewed. If the application is a MES-generated application, do not presume there was a keying error. If the prior application is not reviewed, obtain a new application with proper evidence. The person must submit evidence showing the correct sex. The evidence must have been established before the CYD date of the Numident with the incorrect entry.

[Osiris]

I'm moving this to Legal Matters as this is a huge thing for people to over come in their legal documentation and I know others who have had the same issues with it as you.

I'm glad it all worked out for ya. 

[Hermione01]

I think you handled it brilliantly, kudos for standing your ground.   
Also, the next person in same situation to go in there will not have to go through this crap!

[Kristyn]

I had about given up, was feeling dejected, when I got angry (well, angry for me) and asked to see proof of the policy requiring an amended birth certificate or whatever requirements they have for gender marker change. I decided I wasn't going to take his word and simply leave.

He left for a much longer time and eventually came back 30-45 minutes later with a big stack of papers/printouts. He said it took alot of research but he found the rules. I was surprised he worked that hard on it. He wouldn't admit he was wrong vocally but started typing up a new application for social security, asking me for different things. Once finished he told me it would be effective beginning tomorrow and gave me a receipt as proof of application request.

So I did it, yaay! 


For those of you doing this in the future, check the wiki which has a link to the SSA manual stating the policy rule.

https://www.susans.org/Transitioning/Documentation/6987.html

Or go directly to the SSA Manual - RM 00203.215 Changing Numident Data - Other than Name Change

Good for you, girl!  I'm proud of the way you stood up and asserted yourself.  The guy must have felt like a complete s**t sitting there typing it up knowing he was wrong.  I would have been rubbing his face in it

[Janet_Girl]

Sorry you had the trouble.  I changed mine quicky.  All the letter said was 'irreversible genitalia surgery' and it did say I had an orchie.

But you got it fixed in the end.

Hooray for Valerie.

[blackMamba]

Valerie, I'm so sorry you had to deal with that.  Glad things worked out in the end, but really uncalled for (as policy clearly dictates).  On the bright side, there is one more person educated in the SSA, and presumably the next TS will be spared the grief you encountered.

As for my own experience, I didn't get any hassle.  I handed her the surgeon's letter and told her it was my only copy so I would appreciate if I could have it back.  She said no problem, she just needed to look at it.  Minus the wait to get to the window, my trip probably lasted about 5-10 minutes.

[Arch]

Good for you, Valerie. I'm glad it all worked out in the end.

[Kay]

Congrats Valerie.  I'm glad it all worked out.
I'll try to keep this in mind when I'm ready for
the same in a couple of years.

[glendagladwitch]

I had some problems today changing my gender marker for my Social Security, but was eventually successful after a long, drawn out battle of will that took nearly two hours. I ended being the last customer in the building at the end of the day.

I met with initial resistance from the clerk who insisted that I needed to have an amended birth certificate first. I knew that was wrong from everything I had read in the past, but since I wasn't expecting a problem I didn't bring any supporting SSA policy rule documentation with me. He left several times for long periods to discuss with a supervisor or others.

I had brought my surgeons letter, my passport, Florida drivers license (with gender Female) and existing social security card.

The clerk also claimed that since the surgeons letter was from outside the U.S. it would not be accepted.

From what the clerk said about the requirement that your surgeon's letter be from a US surgeon, I can only presume that the office must be in Illinois, and the clerk was confused about the requirement specific to Illinois that the surgeon's letter be from a US surgeon in order to change the gender marker on the birth certificate.  They starting requiring that in 2005, but they will also accept a letter from a US doctor who inspects you after surgery.  So people born in Illinois who want to change their birth certificate gender marker can still go outside the US for surgery, they just have to get it verified by a US doctor afterward.  And, as you discovered, there is no such requirement for getting the gender marker at the social security administration changed. 

Getting the gender changed at the SSA is important for avoiding a "no match" letter when and if you change jobs.  If the sex on your tax form filled out upon employment does not match the records at the SSA, they will issue a letter that there was a mismatch.  These letters started being issued shortly after 9/11, when the Bush administration rewrote the software to include gender as a field to be verified.  Previously, a gender mismatch would not result in such a letter being sent out.  The letter will specify that the gender was the thing that mismatched, which is certainly a problem for anyone who wants to work stealth.  But, last I heard, the attempt to force employers to fire you if you don't correct the mismatch was blocked by court order.  A quick visit to the NAFSA regulatory website confirms that the DHS final rule rescinded that policy and they gave up on it on October 6, 2009.  So the "no match" letter is not quite the threat it used to be, though it is still a problem.

[mmelny]

Congratulations Valerie!!!  Way to stick to your guns, and thank you for passing this forward. 

I'm headed back to Indiana next week coincidentally, to do this exact thing.  I changed my name last fall with the SSA, but they wouldn't let me change the gender until I provided the papers showing surgery.  And in this process, it was exactly like you described, the clerk going back and forth, and finally the supervisor coming out.  At one point the clerk actually referred to me as "it".. it was a thoroughly degrading experience, and I get to go back and do it again!

Thank you for the additional ammo!

*huggs*,
Melan

[K8]

I didn't have any trouble with Social Security - did it in Trinidad CO, where they get a bunch of us each week - but the Department of Defense has insisted on a court order to change my gender on their records.  I offered to prove I'm anatomically female by dropping my pants in the judge's chambers, but my lawyer assured me that won't be necessary.  Still, I don't have the order yet.

I'm sorry you had to go through that Valerie (and Melan), but I'm glad you stood your ground and got it resolved.  I got pretty frustrated dealing with DoD, but at least the guy kept referring to me as Ms ___ and ma'am.  (I would have been talking to his supervisor otherwise.)  It seems we go through hell to finally get surgery and then there are still more hoops to jump through.

And in another few years we'll look back at all this and say: Gee, that wasn't so hard, was it?

- Kate

[jill610]

Getting the gender changed at the SSA is important for avoiding a "no match" letter when and if you change jobs.  If the sex on your tax form filled out upon employment does not match the records at the SSA, they will issue a letter that there was a mismatch.

I wanted to second the importance of this. Many large employers are going to be adopting eVerify over the next year or so in the US (I know of several large multinationals that are known on this board as being non-discriminatory to TGs that will be doing so in 2011).  If your SSA gender marker does not match your employment application or your form of ID, you will receive what's known as a "Tentative non-compliance" flag to the employer in real time. This does not automatically disqualify you from employment but will create a headache as you will have to wait up to 12 weeks for the mismatch to be resolved - during which time it's up to the employer to decide if they want to have a potential illegal working for them.   Making sure that your SSA ID and your category A/B/C IDs match for gender and name will help avoid this problem.  Also, if you are completely stealth, eVerify may out you if the non-compliance comes up, depending on which software system the employer is using (the latest eVerify API will also send the employer your passport/visa photo if yours was issued/renewed after 2001! So make sure you also change your passport.)

[mmelny]

I successfully had mine changed yesterday in one of the Chicago SSA offices.  The clerk had never changed the gender marker on a record before, so she consulted with the other 3 staff members, but she eventually got it right.   The nice thing was, the half an hour that it took to do it, wasn't a "why are we doing this" session, but more of a "how do we do this?".   Ohh, and thanks Valerie!  I used your 'Changing other numident data document that you listed above.   The clerk actually printed out her own copy.  This made the process easier.

*huggs*,
Melan

[FairyGirl]

Valerie you rock! Thank you for sharing this with us. My SS card was the first thing I got changed after my legal name change, and probably will be the first thing I get changed after surgery. I plan to do it here in Philadelphia, as well as applying for my new passport. Hopefully the SSA office here will know what to do, but I'll have these great references you provided too just in case. You are awesome!

*hugs*
Chloe

[M.Grimm]

Congratulations, Valerie, and thank you for sharing your experience. There is important information in your post and in this thread, and I'm grateful for that; sometime in August or September I'm probably going to be going to the Social Security office to get my gender marker changed. I'll feel more confident about it, going in with as much information on my side as possible.