Susan's Place Logo

News:

Visit our Discord server  and Wiki

Main Menu

FFS - Who Needs It, Who Wants It...

Started by Julie Marie, November 14, 2006, 07:53:08 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Buffy

Being pretty or stunningly beautiful is not really an aim of FFS, unless you have a very feminine face and well developed other feminine features (such as a fantastic body, hips etc)

I have a few friends who are extremely pretty BUT still get read, because they suffer physically in other areas (such as height, one is 6ft 3 ins or size of hands, feet etc.) We have already said through this topic that FFS is part of the package that should include voice, hair removal, mannerisms etc.

No matter how convincing we look physically, without the upbringing of a young girl and the conditioning that goes with that, we will eventually make mistakes (or rather display some male mannerisms) that can give us away.

In general I would think in most peoples requirement of FFS is to feminise the face such that that first look by anybody remains that, a first look, no second look, no lingering and prolonged stare that can lead to the onlooker being unsure of ones Gender.

People have an expectation (in general) what Males and Females look like, all we do in FFS is further that perception. A more angled jaw, softer lines on the forehead, a slightly turned up nose, a flat forehead with eyebrows raised in the same plane, pronounced cheekbones etc...Indicate to most people Female.

Back this up further with a feminine hair style, nice jewellery and good make up and the perception is further increased... that one, first look is the most important, people form and make an opinion in seconds.

I do know people that have feminine faces and I agree that they have no requirement for FFS, they pass without issues facially.

Before FFS, I would get this frequently while out in public and it can be very disconcerting, after FFS I can say that this has not been the case. I went shopping today, jeans and T-shirt, no make up, studs as earrings, my hair tied back in a pony tail. Before FFS I would never not wear make up or a pony tail.

FFS does bring a greater confidence an acceptance in ones own ability to pass and that is the most important thing, confidence.

It is also a very personal thing and I had clear ideas of what I thought I needed to feminise my face. This was backed up by 3 of the 4 surgeons I spoke and consulted with, which again gave me confidence that I was on the right path.

Overall in my transition, FFS probably means more to me than SRS. SRS was never going to increase my ability to pass, it was just the final alignment between mind and body and was the final piece in the jigsaw to allow me to function sexually as a woman.

Every transition is different, we all set out with one aim and that is to be the women we truly are. If we can achieve that without having major surgery, that is a bonus, If we are happy and contented in our appearance that is fantastic, but many of us through the ravages of testosterone need to change and reverse that process, that is a personal choice.

Buffy

  •  

Julie Marie

Quote from: Rommie on November 18, 2006, 12:54:02 PM
The first time I ever decided to cut Julie some slack with "You guys don't understand why I realize I have work to do." (regarding her passing) was when I saw her head to head next to a woman.  Julie's beautiful face still showed, but next to a natal woman you could see that Julie had a large skull.  I had only seen her alone.  I freaked immediately because I know I've got a head the size of Gazzoo on the Flintstones.  I now know that a lot of famous women who are gorgeous have big ass heads, but they are still beautiful, just like Julie (not the big ass head part.. that's me). :D 

I'm flattered!  You are too kind.  And I appreciate your honesty.  Yes, I have a big head.  It was the source of many a criticism from my friends growing up.  And I have no idea if FFS will help in making it look less large.  Hair seems to help a bit.  But when I remember a comment Merv Griffin made when he picked Vanna White for the letter girl, "I was looking for a pretty woman with a large head because I wanted to accentuate her beauty" (something like that) I realize it doesn't have to be a detriment.  Actually I never needed that comment to make me feel better about my hat size.  It's something I accept.  But I have a picture of me and some friends, all GGs, and the girl right next to me REALLY makes my head size stand out!  But she has a dinky head.
What did I tell you?  Did your jaw drop?

It's interesting you had the initial reaction where you weren't buying my self analysis.  And then after doing a comparison you saw some of what I see every day.  What I don't show is how I look without makeup or my hair fixed up.  No one with decent vision would read me for being a woman.  I have to work the makeup pretty hard to get a half way passing face.  Still, I get clocked, a lot.  Would FFS solve that?  Probably not but it may reduce it somewhat.  I really doubt anything would get me to 100% passing.  So I have to learn to accept myself for however I look.  It doesn't mean I don't get down on myself once in a while.  What fun would that be if I couldn't engage in a bit of self-loathing?

Julie
When you judge others, you do not define them, you define yourself.
  •  

melissa90299

Julie,

If you go to Dr. Ousterhout and do what he recommends, you will pass 100% as far as your face is concerned. (and I don't see anything in the rest of you that would give you away but I can't hear your voice. Like me, you might want to do it in two steps.

In your case, you have a really wide jaw and a rather long upper lip, a lip lift and a sliding genioplasty would works wonders, that's about 18-20k. Your forhead and brows aren't that bad, and I can't see how high your scalp is. But your second step would be the forehead, brow lift and, if you need it, a scalp advance. We haven't talked about your nose but it looks pretty good form what I see.

Dr. O will reduce the appearance of the size of your head, that's what he does.

I am having a sliding genioplasty Dec 11th so you will be able to see the before and afters.
  •  

Stormy Weather

Personally speaking, I never knew I wanted or needed FFS until I heard of the procedure.

My friends and doctors tell me I don't need it but there's this nagging doubt that is amplified and distorted by feelings of low self-esteem at times, something that seems to have got far worse after GRS; I'm assuming it's part and parcel of the hormone thing going on...

Still, at the very least, a rhinoplasty to put my nose back the way it was before it was broken when I was 17 would be nice.
  •  

Melissa

Needing FFS?  I don't feel I do.  Sure there are some features I would love to improve, but that's the same for many natal females.  I consider it a very low priority and a nicety.  I'd love to get my jaw reduced and a couple of other minor procedures, but I don't know if I will ever get around to spending that kind of money.  Hmm, I hope I'm not repeating myself. :P  Well, I know there are plenty of natal women that could also use FFS, so why do I need to be a beauty queen?

Melissa
  •  

melissa90299

Again, it's not about beauty. It's about (ugh!) "passing" completely and unequivocally.

Funny, before FFS I used to get comments from people saying  that I was "really pretty." It was nice to hear but I suspected ---and now my suspicion is confirmed since I don't get that anymore---that what they were really saying was "You are really pretty FOR A GUY!!!

It's also about looking at yourself  in the mirror and seeing a woman. I am almost there but not quite that is why I decided to have my jaw and chin done.

For me, FFS is an investment too because I am an outside sales rep. The way I look is essential to my continued success and job security. A lot of GGs in  my field opt for cosmetic surgeries to keep/make themselves more attractive. It's just a fact of life that women are judged by the way they look. It shouldn't be that way but it just is. BTW I might point out that Dr. O has performed FFS on many "natal women." Society looks at masculine features on a woman as unattractive. That's just the way it is.

Posted on: November 23, 2006, 08:30:23 AM
Quote from: misty on November 22, 2006, 04:54:46 PM
hi julie....you have a lovely face

large head.....its the proportions that counts!!....large or small

you have it....you have a lovely face

so feminine..........i love your face

keep your proportions & keep your beauty & your character

take care

misty xxx

Julie is very pretty AND very attractive. If she is happy as she is then I too would advise her not to waste her money on FFS.
  •  

Julie Marie

My goodness!  I haven't visited this thread for several days and when I do I see all these compliments.  Thank you!  Thank you!  Thank you!  Funny thing, is I was in a down mood.  I'm stressing about going to my sister's house today and having her and her family see the real me for the first time and I have been tearing myself apart all morning.  I've been at it since 4AM, that was five hours ago.  Then I see these compliments and all of the sudden things don't seem so bad.  Again, thank you very much.

As for FFS, I know I could use some help.  The other day I went out to pick up a prescription and some groceries.  It was late in the day and I just didn't want to put on makeup just to go out.  So I went with what I was wearing.  Everything was ladies' clothing and I had earrings and a ladies' watch too.  I didn't get one funny look and I made as much eye contact as I could.  Everyone seemed to react to me as if was a normal everyday........ GUY!  "Thank you sir, come again."  :-\

Would FFS help?  Probably but I'll have to admit after all I've heard from the FFS forum it's scary.

First thing is to get rid of the beard.  Then I'll try the grocery store test again.  ::)

Julie
When you judge others, you do not define them, you define yourself.
  •  

cindianna_jones

Julie, 

Yea.. .the beard is a huge tell.  And that is something that most everyone can work on.  Once you get rid of that, you'll find things have changed significantly.

Enjoy your day with your family.  You'll be surprised at how well it will come off.

Take care,

Cindi
  •  

Hazumu

After lurking this thread for awhile, and thinking of the pros and cons of FFS, I believe it's time for me to ask some questions (well, at least one...)

Is there any place I can go, either on the web or in person, where I can see what results I might possibly attain with my face and different procedures?

What would be great is to be able to submit a hi-rez technical photo of my face, and then have it evaluated and then modified to show the minimum attainable results.

All this talk about what is possible and should you/shouldn't you doesn't answer that core question for me.  I guess the core questions are what is the Return On Investment vis passing and acceptance, and is there a 'sweet spot' where I get maximum ROI?

BTW, Tinkerbell, that was an interesting link on beauty.  But I wonder what the practical application would be.  Could they do an analysis on my face and determine what features on my face HAD to be modified to conform to the human notion of feminine beauty, and could it guide the surgeon and his scalpel?

Last thought.  This topic (and several other recent hot topics,) are centering around the notion of beauty and acceptance.  Humans do have a built-in beauty sense.  Maybe I'll start a new topic, once I figure out which forum to put it into...

Karen
  •  

Melissa

Quote from: Karen on November 24, 2006, 09:41:30 AM
Is there any place I can go, either on the web or in person, where I can see what results I might possibly attain with my face and different procedures?

What would be great is to be able to submit a hi-rez technical photo of my face, and then have it evaluated and then modified to show the minimum attainable results.
Yes, see http://www.virtualffs.co.uk/

Melissa
  •  

Julie Marie

From the neck up the telltale markers are:
1 -10. Beard shadow!  This is a must to eliminate.  Fortunately everyone has the genetics to do this.  As far as the money  ???

From there, in no particular order,

Brow ridge - if it's to large and can't be hidden by bangs you might need brow bossing done.  It can be done without majorly aggressive surgery.

Adam's apple - again, the larger it is the more of a tell it is.  Turtle necks may help but if you want to sport some cleavage, well....

Jaw - we all know what a masculine jaw looks like.  Some women have it and it's no problem.  TSs have to add up all the male markers they have to decide if this pushes them over the top.

Location of eyebrows - if you can pluck an acceptable shape and are good with a brow pencil you can pass on a brow lift.  If you decide to have a brow lift beware the "surprised look".  :o  Some surgeons overdo the lift and you end up with that surprised look.

Hairline - if you've lost a lot of hair some may come back with HRT.  But it seems the part above the forehead is the most difficult to regain.  A scalp advance is a common procedure and moves your existing hairline forward to a more feminine hairline.

After that there's a number of things you can do to improve appearance, face lift, eyelid lift, implants and even dental feminization.  If you have $50K just sitting there and you don't know what to do with it, FFS may be a good way to invest that money.  Most initial procedures run about $30K but the $50K figure is an amount many who have had FFS, and subsequent fine tuning, say is the eventual cost.

Julie
When you judge others, you do not define them, you define yourself.
  •  

cindianna_jones

Ouch!  This has to be the hardest part of transition for those who go through it. There is so much pain and cost! It's hard to imagine....

Cindi
  •  

Julie Marie

Quote from: Cindianna_Jones on November 25, 2006, 04:08:55 AM
Ouch!  This has to be the hardest part of transition for those who go through it. There is so much pain and cost! It's hard to imagine....

Cindi

Cindi, I can't tell you how many stories I've read describing girls doing all I mentioned and even more.  It almost seems like an addiction.  And when asked if they would go back and do it all over the vast majority say yes.  I have a difficult time imagining myself doing it but when inundated with so many positive accounts of how FFS changed the lives of these women for the better, I have to give it some consideration.

The cost alone may preclude me from indulging.  But I have thought of utilizing Virtual FFS to see what is possible.  If I saw something I couldn't live without I would certainly be tempted to do it.  But first I have to make sure I have my retirement set to a tolerable level.

Julie
When you judge others, you do not define them, you define yourself.
  •  

Julie Marie

Lisa, every surgeon has his own way of doing things.  Dr O is noted for being pretty aggressive.  Dr Z much less so.  There's a lot of others to choose from, and that's just in the US.  Some travel to Thailand to get the works done because there's some cost savings and it's said the surgeons are just as skilled.  Whatever you decide to do make sure you do your homework.  It took me over a year to settle on someone I felt confident about and I'm not even sure I'll have FFS.

Julie
When you judge others, you do not define them, you define yourself.
  •  

melissa90299

IMNSHO, there are two categories of FFS surgeons. There is Dr. Ousterhout and everyone else. He quite literally wrote the book. He has never had a major problem in the OR. I wouldn't trust my face to anyone but the best and most experienced. Without any question, that is Dr. Douglas Ousterhout.
  •  

tinkerbell

Quote from: melissa90299 on November 27, 2006, 10:54:27 PM
IMNSHO, there are two categories of FFS surgeons. There is Dr. Ousterhout and everyone else.

I agree totally!

tinkerbell :icon_chick:
  •  

Julie Marie

While I know Dr O is the pioneer of FFS and I have nothing but the greatest respect for him, each face and each person has unique issues.  Everyone must decide for themselves which doctor best suits their needs. 

Julie
When you judge others, you do not define them, you define yourself.
  •  

Melissa

Quote from: melissa90299 on November 27, 2006, 10:54:27 PM
IMNSHO, there are two categories of FFS surgeons. There is Dr. Ousterhout and everyone else. He quite literally wrote the book. He has never had a major problem in the OR. I wouldn't trust my face to anyone but the best and most experienced. Without any question, that is Dr. Douglas Ousterhout.
I agree that he is definitely one of the best if not the best, but he is also the most expensive and the most aggressive.  I have heard of many more "numbness" stories from his work than anyone else, because his technique slices along some major nerves that may not ever reconnect.  Now if I can get great results from another surgeon with less numb areas for a lower price, then I would probably go with that doctor.  But, like Julie said:
Quote from: Julie Marie on November 28, 2006, 12:54:39 PM
Everyone must decide for themselves which doctor best suits their needs.

Melissa
  •  

Kate

Quote from: Julie Marie on November 28, 2006, 12:54:39 PM
While I know Dr O is the pioneer of FFS and I have nothing but the greatest respect for him, each face and each person has unique issues.  Everyone must decide for themselves which doctor best suits their needs.

Agreed, I mean we've both watched the flame wars on another forum... wow, do people get passionate about their particular doctors!!!

Me, I'm keeping an open mind and researching the strengths and weaknesses of each. It apparently also depends on what you need: shaving, reconstruction, or whatever. There's no one doctor and technique that's best for everyone, though I realize not everyone feels that way.

I'm still leaning towards Z myself... I melted when he called me "honey" at the end of our conversation, lol...
  •  

Stormy Weather

#79
Rereading this thread again as I've now definitely decided to have some form of FFS in about 18 months time, the degree of which has yet to be decided, let alone where in the world I'll get it done. I'm lucky to be passable, have a very good voice (so I've been told), live in almost-stealth but despite everything being finished some time ago (electro, GRS) I still get occasionally read and seeing as I'm only 5'6", it's not a height thing. I'm just starting to research my options now especially as I might not need the full 'works'...

A future face-lift might also be on the cards. As melissa90299 said, depending on your line of work, a women's appearance can have an impact on their career and I work in a very image-conscious industry. If that makes me shallow, then so be it.

One thing, though. Many of you have mentioned an FFS forum in this thread. Could someone please post a link to it or if that's not forum-friendly, then please PM it to me. I'd be ever so grateful...

Thanks in advance :)


Edit: Have now got the info I was looking for. Thanks to all who PMd me.
  •