How high a price?

[Papillon]

I am at a stage now where my need to transition is getting stronger.  I have spent years trying to keep a tight lid on it all and have only started to ease the lid up over the last six months or so.  I have now chosen a male name and gone out in role and have felt great.

So far, so good.

However, I have a partner and I have two children.  Initially my partner was very supportive.  In fact, it was he that suggested I needed to dig all this out and deal with it.  However, now that I have, he appears to be having cold feet and has been pretty abusive about it all, such that I don't feel I can tell him what I am doing or who I am seeing, just in case it causes an argument.  I now feel that there is a slim chance our marriage could survive if I chose to transition.  He is straight and he married me as a woman.  He ordered fish and he is facing the prospect of being served beef instead.  That was never part of the deal.

And my children are great.  They are young (under 10) but they are on the ball and have dealt very well with another family member transitioning (mtf).  However, I know it would knock them off their feet if their Mummy became another Daddy.

So, my current issue is, what right have I to cause deep anguish to the most important people in my life just because I am unhappy in my body?  I have coped with this for the last 40-odd years and could probably cope with it for the last 40-odd years.  So should I?

I know this is a thick and thorny question and I am actually going to talk to my GP this afternoon about getting some counselling to help unravel this knot.  However, I would be really interested to know how other people have dealt with similar situations, or any thoughts on it.

[zombiesarepeaceful]

You have a right to live your life to the fullest and pursue your dreams.
Your kids no doubt love you and will continue to love you as their Daddy.
My g'ma, who was the only family member who didn't understand but supported me, told me this...
"I don't care what gender you are, you're still my grandchild and I will always love you no matter what."
I'm sure your children have the same mindset.
Don't be discouraged. This process isn't easy at all and you will most likely be met with less than acceptance from your spouse but hey, the same goes for him. If someone really loves you, they'll stick with you through anything. If they don't, well...IMO you don't need them in your life.
Best of luck, and feel free to PM me if you'd like to rant/vent/whatever.
I may be young but my ex gf had a 3 year old so I'm slightly familiar with the whole kid situation.

[Tozzle]

And my children are great.  They are young (under 10) but they are on the ball and have dealt very well with another family member transitioning (mtf).  However, I know it would knock them off their feet if their Mummy became another Daddy.

One of the great things about children is their adaptability and how they start life as blank canvases, ready to be moulded into the caring, compassionate adults we hope them to become.  Their prejudices are a product of those around them - they are not born with them in the same way we are not born scared of spiders.  Having negotiated the transition of another family member in a positive way they are probably already equipped with a way of understanding and I can imagine they will use these same mechanisms to understand your transition.  Your love for them won't change and nor will theirs for you.  Have faith - children are brilliant.

[Papillon]

THanks so much both of you.

zombiesarepeaceful, I hear what you are saying and would like it to be true.  However, I do not believe everyone has a right live their lives to the fullest and pursue their dreams.  That is a very rare priviledge.  My dreams are clearly quite different to my husband's dreams (and my children's, if I asked them).  And, as our dreams impact fundamentally on eachother's lives, who has the prior right?  I believe that being a family is about putting the kids' welfare first, primarily, and finding a compromise between any conflicting needs of the parents to achieve the best situation for both.

And as for acceptance, I am sooo glad that your family of orgin are supportive (mine as well, thank God! I couldn't deal with everyone having issues!) but it is differernt with a partner.  A partnership is like a contract.  You offer something your partner wants and needs and they offer the same back.  However, when the goal posts get shifted so dramatically, the contract has changed, and I can fully understand that.  If my man suddenly joined a militant, far Right group and went on a spree shooting down imigrants would I still love him?  That would be very difficult and he shouldn't expect it.  I do hope he will gradually get used to the idea, but it is a massive ask.

Tozzle, thank you.  Yes, you speak words of wisdom here.  Kids are very adaptable and the younger they are, the more adaptable they are.  And we are a vey liberal family and live in a very liberal part of the world, so they are probably best-placed to handle this.  Being a mum, I guess I just don't want to be the cause of any trauma for them, even if it is something that I think they could deal with!

[zombiesarepeaceful]

Ehhh. See I'm not big on the family thing.
The only one who really accepted me was my g'ma. My mom didn't. Nor my dad when I learned he existed.
Everybody has different beliefs I guess.
But can I ask....if you don't think you have the right to pursue your dreams...then what deems it ok to pursue them? Or who is allowed to pursue them? This is something I don't grasp at all.

[Papillon]

That is a real shame, zombiesarepeaceful.  I think I am very lucky in that parents have known from early years that there was something...er...unconventional(?) about me, so it has never been a big deal to tealk to them about me being man in a woman's body.  I haven't yet told them that I might be doing something about it, though.  I don't see any point in doing that until I decide that I will.

And about pursuing dreams, I am all for it.  But I proceed with caution if I believe that me pursuing my dreams will almost certainly lead to significant harm to another person, particularly one I love.  If it harms no one, go for it!

[sneakersjay]

Hard one.  I'm not sure what I would do in your shoes. 

I was already several years past my divorce when I transitioned, in my late 40s (almost 2 yrs on T), and my kids were a bit older (non issue, other than now what to say to friends about who I am, when Mom doesn't really work...).

Up until now, has your marriage been good?  That would make it harder.

If it was already on the rocks, it might be easier to divorce, then transition.  And, unfortunately, that might have to happen anyway.  Some couples manage to stay together, but as friends and parents, not lovers (which, as you know, doesn't work when one is straight and the other...gay?  Assuming, here, since you're with a guy, but that's not always the case either).

But I wouldn't let it deter you from transition, though depending on your circumstances it might have to be delayed just a bit.


Jay

[Radar]

Many people divorce- and from things not even as massive as trans issues. The divorce rate (in the US) is very high. Sometimes people change, things happen or they just grow apart.

Stay with your husband as long as you want to be with him, but if you start becoming very unhappy rethink things. When parents are unhappy with their marriage it impacts the children greatly and hurts them. When a parent is always depressed and unhappy it hurts then children greatly too.

People, including children, learn to adapt. Just remember that many, many children out there live a worse life than your children ever will. It could always be worse.

[Al James]

in my opinion while you dont always have to follow your dreams especially when it hurts the ones you care about there comes a time when if you dont follow them you end up hating that person even if its on a subconcious level. while out loud you may say i chose not to transition there will eventually be a voice in your head adding ' because of you' and the next time your husband gets something that he really wants all the bottled up feelings will come to the fore. if this is something you think you can sit on and ignore then i really wish you luck for me it became so overwhelming that i finally just had to be  me

[Radar]

in my opinion while you dont always have to follow your dreams especially when it hurts the ones you care about there comes a time when if you dont follow them you end up hating them even if its on a subconcious level. while out loud you may say i chose not to transition there will eventually be a voice in your head adding 'because of you' and the next time your husband gets something that he really wants all the bottled up feelings will come to the fore. if this is something you think you can sit on and ignore then i really wish you luck for me it became so overwhelming that i finally just had to be me

This is exactly what happened to me. It got to a point where it was either transition or death. Of course, if you ask my ex, he'd probably prefer I died.

[Papillon]

Thanks all.

al james, this is spot on and exactly what I would fear would happen if I decided that the only strong reason for not transitioning would be the impact on my family.  In so far as the kids are concerned, I think they could adapt, as you say Radar.  But the husband?  I really don't know (yes, he is straight and I am gay).  And if I decided not to transition because of him, yes, I think there is a good chance I would resent him for it.

And, whilst we love eachother profoundly, we have been having problems and divorce has been discussed for those reasons.  We are again trying to patch things up, but perhaps it is just not worth it.

Thank you again so much for your thoughts.  It is really helping to hear that other people have survived the same battle and how you did it.  Without this support, it would be a very lonely journey indeed!

[~Jay~]

I'm 33 and although I don't have any children and have never been married I do have a bf I've been seeing for about 4 years and told him recently about myself and although he says he is fine with things he has also said to me he doesn't want me to go and have any "drastic" surgery and that he loves my body the way it is, I told him that I don't like it how it is and right now surgery isn't going to happen anytime soon as I've only just gone to see my GP this week about it so I'm in the very early stages of getting things sorted or me.  But as an older person on here things will build up inside of you which is not good and sometimes you really need to do whats right for yourself and how you feel.

[Radar]

It was very hard. It also doesn't help that I identify as a heterosexual male. But I loved my husband for who he was inside and was able to look past his male body. Over time it became harder and harder to look past it.

We started to drift apart and I hated any sexual encounters. I resented him alot- which wasn't fair to him. I know my dysphoria made us drift apart but we had both changed as well. This can happen in any relationship.

It was- and still is- hard but he needed to know the truth. It wasn't fair for the both of us. He deserves someone who can meet his emotional and intimate needs... which I could no longer supply. I deserve to pursue my dreams, transition and show the world the man I am. We have no kids (didn't want them) so we don't have that to worry about. Having kids during this situation must be very, very hard. I can't even imagine.

He is still very bitter about all of this, even though I told him it was nothing personal. I hope someday he realises this was for the best and I hope he finds someone wonderful. Something that helps me is to remember that many couples have split due to much less serious situations as transsexualism and transitioning. Some people even split over what I would consider trivial things.

[Tozzle]

It was- and still is- hard but he needed to know the truth. It wasn't fair for the both of us. He deserves someone who can meet his emotional and intimate needs... which I could no longer supply. I deserve to pursue my dreams, transition and show the world the man I am.

Something that helps me is to remember that many couples have split due to much less serious situations as transsexualism and transitioning. Some people even split over what I would consider trivial things.

Wise words, Radar.  And you're right, it is b****y hard, but sometimes what needs to be needs to be.  I'm on the other side of this, as the non-transitioning partner (although my SO hasn't decided what to do yet), and as much as I never would have wanted this I can't deny my partner's right to live in the way that will make them happiest, even if our different needs in some way, at some time, bring about the end of our beautiful relationship.  There are far greater things at risk than our relationship and I would far, far rather have them in my life in any living capacity than to lose them altogether.

[Evan]

having grown up in a house where my parents put mine and my sisters "needs" above their own.. I'd venture a guess that your kids can see that you're unhappy, or will sooner rather than later.. and your unhappiness affects them just as your transitioning would.. I even came to a point where I resented my parents for what they were doing, because of the strained "family life" it created.. there is a fine line between putting your childrens needs, or what you perceive their needs to be, above your own.. and you showing them that it's better to just deal with the hand you're dealt and not try and achieve your dreams or happiness. My daughter is about to turn 7 and she's my biggest supporter, along with my 2 year old niece, they're my only two family members who consistently use the proper name/pronouns .. children complicate everything, but they can also be a great excuse when something seems to hard to start.

[Papillon]

~Jay~, it sounds as though your situation mirrors mine quite closely.  This is  what my partner originally said (fine, but no surgery...like your body the way it is...I'm not gay...couldn't fancy a man...etc etc).  Now that I have goen to my GP and have been out in role, his view is changing.  I am hoping that it might change again, but let's see.

Radar, that must have been very difficult.  It is the converse of the situation I have with my partner.  I am very attracted to him and he to me and it will be difficult for both of us if his feelings change due to my transitioning.  But, as you say, things change in relationships and for more trivial reasons than this.

Tozzle, what a compassionate and wise human being you are.  And thank you so much for posting on here.  It really helps to hear the perspective from the other side.

Evan, your post made me well up.  Things are changing so fast and, over the last few days, I have come to realise that firstly, my children are strong and adaptable and would be able to cope if Mummy said she was going to become a man, because that is the way she felt she had to be.  Also, having now broached the issue with my mother and sister, they have reassured me (without me asking) that my kids would be able to cope with it and that they would help in whatever way they could.  Secondly, I have come to realise that, since implicitly having made the decision to transition (and I have, even though I wont action it until I have completed a course of counselling, just to make sure I have covered all angles) that I feel very different abotu myself and the world.  I am used to being someone that is easily thrown by difficulties and is also prone to crippling guilt and self-loathing.  Having started to think that I can make a change ot this most fundamental aspects of my personal identity, I feel capable, content and able to give more to others because I don't feel so challenged myself.  I know my children have noticed the difference.  So, yes, it would be a good thing for them to have a happy, coping Mummy/Daddy (what woudl I be called?).

So, thank you again so much for this input.  You don't know how much it has helped. 

[Radar]

Good luck with whatever you chose. Remember, do what you feel you have to do but take it on your own time. There's no need to rush things if you don't want them to.

[Papillon]

Thanks Radar.  The temptation is to rush, now that I feel I have pretty much made my mind up, but I am glad I have set myself the timescale of completing counselling before officially reaching a decision.  What with NHS waiting lists the way they are, I make that about 6 months.  Lots of time to research, explore and give the husband space to adapt to the idea.

Thank you all again.