Not sure if this is a step forward or back.

[MalcolmAllen]

Alright.  So I still live with my folks at home, and have just recently told them I was trans (this was about 4 months ago).  I have since bought some guys clothes that, admittedly, look terrible on me but still make me feel better about myself.

My mom is beginning to come to terms with what I am.  It's taken a little time but she no longer quasi makes fun of me because of it.  She used to say stuff like "Oh, she doesn't want anyone to see her boobs anymore," and call me Ponyboy and things, but that has since gotten better.

However my appearance is a topic of discussion that has gotten to be like a warzone between us.  She has stated FIRMLY several times that she will not support me getting hormones until I am-wait for it- TWENTY-EIGHT YEARS OLD.  This is outrageous, and it shows that despite everything I've told them, how adamently I've explained what pure hell this all is for me, that she still doesn't understand.  She treats it as a "big decision" that needs to be made when I am older.  I say it's a necessary medical treatment I need in order to be happy and enjoy my twenties.  This just makes me incredibly upset and makes me feel very hopeless, because everything I plan for myself she feels I will not accomplish.

I want to go to culinary school, she thinks it's not for me.  I want to do hormones and transition ASAP, she thinks I have no idea what I'm talking about.  I want to work nights, she thinks it's unhealthy.  I want to get my hair cut and buy clothes, she thinks I have to dress androgenous/like a girl in order to get anywhere in life.

It's just... agh it makes me want to curl up and go to sleep and never wake up.

We had a pretty civil conversation today (I managed to hold my tongue about the 28yrs old thing) and she offered to help me get clothes and things.  However, she thinks I will get fired if I dress completely like a boy and thinks I need to look androgynous I work.  I won't get fired.  Everyone at work already knows.  And androgenous is absolutely not what I want. 

I just don't know how to get through to her! I've explained it all a million times.  She doesn't want to yield; she thinks adamently that she knows best.

Sorry about this little rant... Any ideas on how to get how to respect how I feel?

[Silver]

Sounds like you can't. Leave ASAP.

[tekla]

It was not unique for me, or any of the guys I went to school with (all male school), or my kids or their friends to hear (from about 12 on) 18 and OUT!^*  So if you're 18, this is your fault, not thiers.  Man up, get a job, support yourself and quit looking for other people to do your work for you.

For the record I was out at 16.5 and spent most of the previous year touring, so I was really out of the house, making money (not much but some) on my own, and living (You Call that Living?) on my own way before the edict came to pass.

* - Oddly enough I only know one girl who ever got that rule put on her.  Today she is one of the most successfull people I know (one of the highest priced divorce lawyers in the world, and she only represents women).  And, regarless of sex/gender, the longer you stay at home (medical reasons aside) the LESS you will ever accomplish in life.

[Brittyn]

It was not unique for me, or any of the guys I went to school with (all male school), or my kids or their friends to hear (from about 12 on) 18 and OUT!^*  So if you're 18, this is your fault, not thiers.  Man up, get a job, support yourself and quit looking for other people to do your work for you.

For the record I was out at 16.5 and spent most of the previous year touring, so I was really out of the house, making money (not much but some) on my own, and living (You Call that Living?) on my own way before the edict came to pass.

* - Oddly enough I only know one girl who ever got that rule put on her.  Today she is one of the most successfull people I know (one of the highest priced divorce lawyers in the world, and she only represents women).  And, regarless of sex/gender, the longer you stay at home (medical reasons aside) the LESS you will ever accomplish in life.

I'm not sure how old you are, but nowadays the whole "getting a job" thing is extremely difficult.  Even the crappy low jobs. 

It probably also depends on your location.

[Bones]

Man up, get a job, support yourself and quit looking for other people to do your work for you.

Are you serious? Did you not actually read his post? He said he had a job..and perhaps he's under 18...or perhaps his job doesn't pay him to live on his own just yet. In a lot of places right now, minimum wage is way under the standard of living...I have to live with someone else just to get by on my own paycheck as it is...and I hate doing that.

[Calistine]

It was not unique for me, or any of the guys I went to school with (all male school), or my kids or their friends to hear (from about 12 on) 18 and OUT!^*  So if you're 18, this is your fault, not thiers.  Man up, get a job, support yourself and quit looking for other people to do your work for you.

For the record I was out at 16.5 and spent most of the previous year touring, so I was really out of the house, making money (not much but some) on my own, and living (You Call that Living?) on my own way before the edict came to pass.

* - Oddly enough I only know one girl who ever got that rule put on her.  Today she is one of the most successfull people I know (one of the highest priced divorce lawyers in the world, and she only represents women).  And, regarless of sex/gender, the longer you stay at home (medical reasons aside) the LESS you will ever accomplish in life.

What is your problem? Do you realize how hard it is to find a job? It's not his fault if hes actually looking.
Sorry to hear that dude, I'm 18 too and my mom said if I want hormones I have to move out. I'm trying to find a job but its like impossible. Once I do I'll start saving up to get an apartment.

[Arch]

Tekla, he has a job. Now I guess he should focus on becoming independent from his folks.

And as for this:

And, regarless of sex/gender, the longer you stay at home (medical reasons aside) the LESS you will ever accomplish in life.

...you might be able to use it as a general rule of thumb--and I would want to see statistics--but it's certainly not uniformly so. But I don't think it's easily measurable anyway because different people have different ideas of what constitutes "accomplishment."

[MalcolmAllen]

It was not unique for me, or any of the guys I went to school with (all male school), or my kids or their friends to hear (from about 12 on) 18 and OUT!^*  So if you're 18, this is your fault, not thiers.  Man up, get a job, support yourself and quit looking for other people to do your work for you.

For the record I was out at 16.5 and spent most of the previous year touring, so I was really out of the house, making money (not much but some) on my own, and living (You Call that Living?) on my own way before the edict came to pass.

* - Oddly enough I only know one girl who ever got that rule put on her.  Today she is one of the most successfull people I know (one of the highest priced divorce lawyers in the world, and she only represents women).  And, regarless of sex/gender, the longer you stay at home (medical reasons aside) the LESS you will ever accomplish in life.

Really man? I have a job.  I have a full time job, actually.  I failed my first year of college but it was not due to lack of trying.  I got diagnosed with ADD and now I'm going to try culinary at the local community college.

I'm working my ass off right now.  Eventually I can move out, sure, but it wont be for a few years now.  I make min. wage.  It's not enough to live on right now.  I have a ton of school debts to pay off and a car to afford. 

I'm just trying to make life bearable right now.  I was very close to my parents, and I'd hate for there to be a divide because of who I am.  I'm just trying to reconcile things with me and my mother in a way that allows me to be myself.  I refuse to live through my twenties without at least T.  It's not fair to myself, we only get one shot at life.

[Alex Rene]

Okay, this is Arch. I'm still confused about what happened here. I clearly clicked the wrong button and deleted this entire post...WTF? I was wondering why my post didn't come up.

I don't think I can restore it...

[Silver]

Odd to see someone calling a moderator nonconstructive.

[kyril]

Um, Alex, the quotes you picked out were supporting the OP in the face of a far more nonconstructive post that attacked him.

[Arch]

Please keep it respectful and constructive.

Wow, gee, I'll try to remember that the next time I write one of my many posts containing personal attacks, pointless and nasty criticism, hate speech, libel, slander, spurious remarks, or specious arguments.

[Bones]

Wow, gee, I'll try to remember that the next time I write one of my many posts containing personal attacks, pointless and nasty criticism, hate speech, libel, slander, spurious remarks, or specious arguments.

What he said!

[Arch]

Alex Rene, I must apologize. I apparently clicked on "Modify" when I meant to click on "Quote." Your entire post disappeared except for the portion that I was quoting. I tried to backtrack and restore it, to no avail.

I'm sorry.

Someone please kick me.

[Alex Rene]

Alex Rene, I must apologize. I apparently clicked on "Modify" when I meant to click on "Quote." Your entire post disappeared except for the portion that I was quoting. I tried to backtrack and restore it, to no avail.

I'm sorry.

Someone please kick me.

No worries, Arch.  What's done is done, and I don't remember all of what I wrote, so I can't repost it.  I can see some others have read it, though.  Again, don't worry about it, Arch.


I do, however, remember putting that part, explicitly stating that I was not writing to or about anyone in particular...and the responses I'm getting are evident that that part was overlooked.  So I will say it again: I'm not looking to attack or even confront anyone.  On the contrary, it looked to me like Tekla was being hassled for what seemed to be more misunderstanding than intentional harassment.  Correct me if I'm wrong, Tekla, but that's the impression I got.

I wrote my previous post because I saw other members beating the metaphorical dead horse.  It seemed to be over the top, compared to the misdeed.  I'm pretty sure that Tekla, if he's still looking at this thread (which I wouldn't be surprised if he wasn't), has gotten the message, given the number of, for lack of a better word, attacking posts.  I spoke up because I am assertive.  I'm sorry if what I wrote offended anyone - unintentionally - but I am not going to back down because more than one person in this thread seems to disagree.

I want to make it clear that I am by no means defending whatever conduct infraction Tekla may have made.  But I also want to make it clear that, in all my 22 years* of life, I have never known ganging up to "beat on a dead horse" to be an effective way to solve a problem or get a message across.  If any of you have had a different experience, please enlighten me.  Until then, you can use the Report button.  That's what it's there for.


*22 years is enough, even if not that much when compared to elder folks' experience

[Bones]

For the original poster: Have you thought about getting a place with roommates...you pay a percentage of the rent. That's what I do now. I know with working min. wage it is very frustrating out there, especially if you have bills, school etc. But sometimes, parents tend to hold their children back from things even if they don't mean to. Some just have a hard time...breaking away.


And to Alex: Sure, you said you weren't pointing out any fingers while turning around and saying the few posts that you quoted were the most nonconstructive. I don't see how my post was nonconstructive by saying that he didn't seem to read the original post and enlightening him on a key thing.

And I truly don't see anyone beating up on anyone here. Just -adults- having a conversation at this point and some people trying to enlighten a post gone wrong.

Three whole posts, not entirely saying exactly the same thing is not beating a dead horse in my opinion either...

*Also spoke up because he too is assertive*

In my almost 40 yrs of life...I've seen people use that 'Man up' BS and it really puts a sour taste in my mouth. And this is why I gave the response I gave. If that's beating up on someone, then I dunno...the world sure has changed quite a bit.

I won't be replying to this portion of the topic again. If you'd like to discuss more, just PM, I feel this thread's been hijacked enough.

[Alex Rene]

For the original poster: Have you thought about getting a place with roommates...you pay a percentage of the rent. That's what I do now. I know with working min. wage it is very frustrating out there, especially if you have bills, school etc. But sometimes, parents tend to hold their children back from things even if they don't mean to. Some just have a hard time...breaking away.


And to Alex: Sure, you said you weren't pointing out any fingers while turning around and saying the few posts that you quoted were the most nonconstructive. I don't see how my post was nonconstructive by saying that he didn't seem to read the original post and enlightening him on a key thing.

And I truly don't see anyone beating up on anyone here. Just -adults- having a conversation at this point and some people trying to enlighten a post gone wrong.

Three whole posts, not entirely saying exactly the same thing is not beating a dead horse in my opinion either...

*Also spoke up because he too is assertive*

In my almost 40 yrs of life...I've seen people use that 'Man up' BS and it really puts a sour taste in my mouth. And this is why I gave the response I gave. If that's beating up on someone, then I dunno...the world sure has changed quite a bit.

I won't be replying to this portion of the topic again. If you'd like to discuss more, just PM, I feel this thread's been hijacked enough.

Again, it was not my intention to point fingers; if I did, I'm sorry.

It's not so much what was being said as how it was being said that prompted me to post what I did.  It felt like a new post was basically saying "Yeah!  What he said!  We don't want you around!" in reference to the post before it.  I saw it as resembling the classic case of high school bullying.  Again, I'm sorry if I mis-perceived what you guys were getting at.

I'm not going to watch this topic any longer, either; I whole-heartedly agree that it's strayed way too far from the initial topic.  I admit I had a hand in that, but I wouldn't have said anything if I didn't think it was already happening.  The second part of my first post was meant as a friendly reminder.  You guys obviously don't see it that way, so thanks for the feedback; I can work on it now that I'm aware of it.

[MalcolmAllen]

Boy, my thread got a little hijacked and disappeared into nothingness... Oh well.

[Bones]

Nope..not into nothingness..I still would like to help ya out here so I am going to repeat the question I had for you:

Have you thought about getting a place with roommates...you pay a percentage of the rent. That's what I do now. I know with working min. wage it is very frustrating out there, especially if you have bills, school etc. But sometimes, parents tend to hold their children back from things even if they don't mean to. Some just have a hard time...breaking away.

[MalcolmAllen]

Yeah, I just recently got in at Arby's full time (or close to it) so even making minimum wage I will have enough to start putting away for a car and a place with a few friends.  The car is a necessity; bus fare works out to be just as expensive and unless I can miraculously get a job in the city a bike wont cut it.  But I'm getting on my way, I'm just trying to make however long I do have to stay here become less of a constant fight.  I'm doing my best to make my appearance be very, very clean cut and 'stylish' because that seems to be more my mother's complaint than the boy clothes themselves. 

Mostly the issue is their lack of support for me going to a real therapist and getting on the way to hormones, but I might just have to put thoughts of that on hold until I can afford those things in addition to supporting myself.