Suggestions for a non-insulting group name.

[Cowboi]

I am soliciting all of you for ideas for a group name. I'm trying to start a group that is intended for people who identify as TS or TG who's goal is to undergo SRS. It is certainly not intended to make other people feel put down or excluded, it's based more on the idea of creating a space for a specific group of people who can relate to each other on a certain level because of a common desire and goal.

Not to beat the dead horse of comparing race but it's kind of like the idea of assuming that a first generation immigrant who is a poc will have the same experience as a poc who's family has roots in a country for 100+ years. The experience is simply not the same, neither is the culture. While they have common interests they are different and sometimes need someone who is in their same position to talk with and relate to. TS and TG people who feel the need to undergo SRS don't always have common experiences or feelings with someone who is gender queer, a gender non-conformist, androgynous or a cross dresser (or a million other identities that are included in our community).

So how does one go about this without being/acting insulting? What kind of name would make it clear that you are looking to create a safe space for a very specific group of individuals but not make it seem like you're saying that they're somehow better or more important than the rest of community? Since that isn't the intention I want a name that will get the point across without hurting other people.

There are already so many trans sites that include everyone that it makes it hard to find the people who have a common goal for their personal journey or to post about certain topics without having to be concerned that you may step on someone's toes or hurt people's feelings. I'm just hoping to create something that can provide the kind of atmosphere that will prevent people from holding back on the topic or feeling that they may hurt another person unintentionally.

Even here our FTM and MTF forums are very broad about who is included, I don't think that's a bad thing, I'd just like something that concentrates on a specific group without all of the different (and sometimes even conflicting) identities. I hope that doesn't make me sound like an ->-bleeped-<-, but honestly I don't feel that it's too much to ask to be able to spend time talking with people who have that common interest/goal. Does that even make sense, to feel like it is hard to talk in more open forums because of the portions of your experience that is different from the other members? I've considered this for some time now and just keep going back and forth on the whole idea so I figured it was time for some outside perspective.

Maybe I'm just being old school but I know there are a lot of members here and a lot of discussions that I just can't get into or even understand because my experience and another persons are so different that I simply can't relate to them. Sometimes it feels like there are aspects of my identity or beliefs that I can't bring up because there will be people who just don't get it and the thread will go out of control on side tangents without the main issue really being discussed or even addressed.
Post Merge: June 29, 2010, 11:38:09 AM
Okay I admit, the group issue seems to be a back burner issue right now. I think I'm having an identity crisis instead. Anyone want to talk about that? lol

[My Name Is Ellie]

Was about to reply with "women/men" but you kind of do need a name. It's a weird position really. In my opinion it is not clear cut, and yet there is still need to identify who is transgender and who isn't purely for medical reasons and such. I don't know.

I don't think there really is an appropriate label for "somebody in the exact same position as someone else" because in truth nobody is in the same position. There are always differences. That is why the umbrella term "transgender" is the most used.

[Cowboi]

Exactly, it has gotten to a point where there are so many different identities and experiences that the term that used to be used for people who were heading in the direction I am is now an all inclusive word/identity. The community where I actually live and came out 10 years ago at the time used the term transgendered to identify an individual who wanted SRS but was still pre-op, they used transsexual for people who were post-op. So in a way I was raised in a community where that was the word or label for myself and people like me, online at the time it was most common as well in the groups I was part of and the forums I used.

Now if I look for another transgendered guy I could end up talking with someone who identifies that way because they are gender-queer and merely want to dress androgynous and happen to have been born female bodied. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with all of the identities included in our community, but the lack of definition to the terms used, the way every person has their own meaning for it and applies it in their own way makes it difficult to find someone who is on the same path as you sometimes. And there are different discussions that simply aren't going to go over well in such an open forum because of terminology or things like that (we've all seen this happen from time to time... we even have rules on most sites because of these kinds of conversations that have come up).

For me being in the community I was in and being taught the identities the way I was sometimes it kind of feels like, "What the hell, what happened to my identity?" And I know that is not the only side to the story and I'm not saying that to be disrespectful, sometimes it just gets to be too much.

The transmale community in general can be difficult to navigate, even our one magazine that is now out and available (Original Plumbing) tends to be directed at a certain type of lifestyle. I'm not dissing the magazine at all, it's good and enjoyable, but as a straight white transguy working towards SRS who is in a committed life long relationship and doesn't believe in open relationships or casual sex a lot of the articles and things have nothing to do with people who have those traits in common with me. I obviously don't know what it's like on the other side of the spectrum for transwomen.

It gets frustrating and it gets old to not be able to just have a simple word that will allow me to find people who are on the same path as me. It is also nearly impossible to bring up things like this without least one person becoming offended because they feel like you are judging them or saying they aren't a valid member of the community, so half the time you find maybe one or two people to talk to and then have a post 7 pages long of people just being pissed at you over something like what term you used or how you are excluding people. It isn't about excluding people, it's about finding that particular group of people who have that one thing in common with you.

Just because we are all part of the same community doesn't mean we all understand one another. Someone who is more towards the medical definition of TS or TG doesn't really have a ton in common with someone who identifies as gender queer because they want to rock societies stereotypes. Nothing is wrong with either group, they simply are not the same thing and while they have common ground they can't always be expected to be able to really relate to one another.

With so few places to even be able to talk about stuff like this issue without having to be concerned about being attacked or hurting someone's feelings it starts to feel... I don't know, lonely and old? I don't know. I'm still contemplating it all. Now days I can't even tell a person who is not a part of our community that I'm TG without having to explain what it means to me and how I personally identify and what I want to get out of my life. It's crazy to me that to even have a typical person understand where I am coming from that I have to disclose so much about myself to them and go into so much detail because there is just SO much that is included in our community. It isn't crazy that we include everyone, it's just that sometimes I wish it was simpler and could take a lot less time to explain lol.

[My Name Is Ellie]

Perhaps seeking out a label isn't the answer, rather a description would be best? Keeping it simple and not seeking a one-worder.

"The Cafe for Transsexual Males"

could quite easily be called

"The Cafe for people who identify as male, who were born with the wrong genitals who wish to seek action surgically to rectify the issue".

Although it's hard to even make that sound non-insulting or confusing.

[BunnyBee]

Pre-op?

[Cowboi]

"The Cafe for people who identify as male, who were born with the wrong genitals who wish to seek action surgically to rectify the issue".

That made me laugh so hard. It does seem to be one of those things that is actually really simple but perhaps thinking too deeply into it has made it harder.

When you spend a few years getting beat over the head with inclusion inclusion inclusion it becomes nerve racking to make a safe space for one particular set of people out of a whole community 

[kyril]

I think "pre- and post-bottom surgery trans men" would pretty much cover it. Or maybe "lower-surgery-track trans men." There's not really an elegant way to say it, but there are ways to get the point across.

I do get what you're saying about the difficulty of carving out a space for a specific group within a community where inclusion is so strongly valued. It is possible - there's a guy who's managed to make a small but supportive space for effeminate gay non-genderqueer trans men, so it's not at all impossible to create groups with specific things in common - but it's difficult. And you'll likely piss some people off. It's an especially touchy subject because of how the HBS women have been behaving.

[SnailPace]

I think that something along the lines of: An FTM SRS Discussion Group.  That way you aren't excluding anyone, but the most likely people to show up are pre-op FTMs.  I mean, why would you want to go to a "Bottom Surgery Discussion Group" if you never wanted bottom surgery?

[Cowboi]

That is a good idea. Hopefully it would detour men who aren't on that track and in the end if someone who wasn't on that track joined and was a problem it isn't as if they couldn't be asked to leave the community or to tone it down if they'd like to stay a member.

I'm not all about it being 100% SRS, that would be the hope, but if it wasn't that would be okay too so long as other members allowed it to stay on that track with conversation and support issues.