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Need help setting up a mic

Started by Lachlann, June 28, 2010, 10:47:21 PM

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Lachlann

I'm new to working with recording equipment and I know for sure there are people here who have dealt with it.

Here's the thing, my mobo(motherboard) isn't exactly meant for pro mics and I just recently got a Shure SM57. I need a phantom power because I'm not getting enough of a boost and my friend thinks I'd need a multi-channel mixer, but he only knows a little bit more about this than I do. I'm not looking for anything super expensive as this is still just a hobby, but I still want something decent at least. I'm just looking at recording vocals.

Now, I might be completely wrong in what I need for this, so feel free to correct me.
Don't be scared to fly alone, find a path that is your own
Love will open every door it's in your hands, the world is yours
Don't hold back and always know, all the answers will unfold
What are you waiting for, spread your wings and soar
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Flan

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Lachlann

Quote from: Laura91 on June 28, 2010, 11:06:47 PM
A SM57 is a dynamic mic, therefore phantom power is not needed. Only condenser mics require phantom power.

Hmmm.

So why can't I get the volume up on it? I've got mic boost on and the recording volume up. Any ideas?
Don't be scared to fly alone, find a path that is your own
Love will open every door it's in your hands, the world is yours
Don't hold back and always know, all the answers will unfold
What are you waiting for, spread your wings and soar
  •  

Lachlann

Quote from: Laura91 on June 28, 2010, 11:09:50 PM
I edited my post at the same time you posted.  :D Re-read it if you want to.

Ah, I see.

Quote from: FurryDessert on June 28, 2010, 11:05:15 PM
something like this to interface, separate from the noise of the pc and provide power?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882898056

edit: cheaper
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16836709012

Thanks for the links.
Don't be scared to fly alone, find a path that is your own
Love will open every door it's in your hands, the world is yours
Don't hold back and always know, all the answers will unfold
What are you waiting for, spread your wings and soar
  •  

Kate Thomas

"But who is that on the other side of you?"
T.S. Eliot
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Lachlann

Quote from: Kate Thomas on June 28, 2010, 11:19:12 PM
http://www.bluemic.com/icicle/
Or some other XLR to USB interface


there are a number of USB microphones out there

Icicle looks pretty affordable.

Another question, though. Is it worth getting a condenser this early on? Or is the SM57 alright for singing? I know I've seen quite a few people use it for instruments and all.
Don't be scared to fly alone, find a path that is your own
Love will open every door it's in your hands, the world is yours
Don't hold back and always know, all the answers will unfold
What are you waiting for, spread your wings and soar
  •  

Kate Thomas

Just stick with the 57 for now it is a classic microphone that is very flexible in its applications. Great to learn with. get some recording time with the 57 under your belt, then reevaluate your needs.
"But who is that on the other side of you?"
T.S. Eliot
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Renate

Well, just to add to the plethora of opinions here...

Depending on what direction you are heading, a small mixer might be the solution.
I've always liked Behringer. The XENYX series with USB output would do the job.
Behringer XENYX 1204USB USB Mixer

You might even pick up a small analog output Behringer mixer used.
If the output is correctly padded out with resistors into the standard motherboard audio line input the sound can be great.
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Lachlann

Hey, the more opinions and suggestions, the better. I want to make sure I know what I'm getting.

Thanks again everyone.
Don't be scared to fly alone, find a path that is your own
Love will open every door it's in your hands, the world is yours
Don't hold back and always know, all the answers will unfold
What are you waiting for, spread your wings and soar
  •  

glendagladwitch

#9
What Laura said.  Get a mic pre.  Do yourself a favor and get a tube pre. 

I suggest http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/PreSonus-TubePre-Microphone-Preamp?sku=184125
I know big time pros who swear by it.

Meanwhile, ART has been getting a good rep, and though I have not used ART myself, you might take a look at this one if the price point is a major issue.  I've heard that they are great when they work, but there can be some reliability issues, so be prepared to take it back to the store and get another, and another, if need be until you get a good one.

http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/ART-Tube-MP-Studio-Mic-Preamp?sku=180581

As a general rule, condenser mics are used for recording, and the dynamic mics are used for performing.  If you are trying to perform or record with your music playing at full volume in the same environment as your mic, stick with the SM57.   But if you are planning to record your voice while listening to the backing track with headphones on, then you might want to use a condenser mic.  The main thing to remember is that, if you try and use a condenser mic with loud instruments nearby, the results are not going to be pretty.  But the best quality vocal recordings are usually accomplished using condenser mics in sound booths.
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Lachlann

Did you mean for a different link for the first one? You've linked the same thing twice.
Don't be scared to fly alone, find a path that is your own
Love will open every door it's in your hands, the world is yours
Don't hold back and always know, all the answers will unfold
What are you waiting for, spread your wings and soar
  •  

glendagladwitch

Quote from: Lachlann on June 29, 2010, 08:51:41 AM
Did you mean for a different link for the first one? You've linked the same thing twice.

Sorry about that.  I fixed the link in the post above to point to the presonus tube pre.

If you really get into it, you can start experimenting by putting differnt tubes in it.  I really like the 12ax7 for blues and rock tunes, or I did before the vocal surgery that reconstructed my larynx and gave me a naturally bluesy (code for damaged and rough) voice. 

Tuning the gain knob with that tube until it clips softly can really push overly pure vocals into the rock zone, and even at low gain the vocals just sound more warm and alive.  Transistors are definitely more reliable, but they amplify all the harmonics, and sound cold and harsh as a result.  Tubes just amplify even order harmonics and the results speak for themselves.  Putting even one tube somewhere in your signal chain works wonders.
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Lachlann

I just got some cash flow so I'm able to go out and buy a preamp, now.

My local joint sells the Behringer XENYX 1204, so I might go for that out of convenience as it'd be easier to turn in if doesn't work right.
Don't be scared to fly alone, find a path that is your own
Love will open every door it's in your hands, the world is yours
Don't hold back and always know, all the answers will unfold
What are you waiting for, spread your wings and soar
  •  

rejennyrated

Ok Ex BBC studio engineer here. (late 1980's to late 1990's)

Dynamic mics are often used for vocals because of their relatively low sensitivity and their fairly omnidirectional pick up pattern. They are also usually also relatively immune to handling noise and indeed issues like popping and the like. The downside is that unless you are close to them you don't generally get much output and you will need a pre amp of some sort.

Condenser mics have better sensitivity and indeed come with a variety of pickup patterns the most common of which is the cardioid (or kidney) shape pattern. The are often used on stands poles or booms for a more distant pick up of sound where their ability to have a variable pickup pattern and their high sensitivity will give better results.

For close mic'd vocals we ofen used dynamic or ribbon mics. Condensers were also used but they come with their own set of problems not least of which is that you can get a lot more handling noise if the mic is hand held and indeed unless you have a wind shield the mic will pop and hiss if a singer breaths too closely into it.

A good condenser, say something like a Beyer or an AKG can also be an order of magnitude more expensive that a decent dynamic. You really do not want to use one of the "noddy goes to toytown" type cheap condenser mics as the results will not be so good.

Conclusion - stick with your dynamic mic - buy a simple pre amp and EQ box - and as has already been said dynamic mics do not use phantom power.

Jenny x.
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glendagladwitch

Quote from: Lachlann on July 03, 2010, 01:13:00 AM
I just got some cash flow so I'm able to go out and buy a preamp, now.

My local joint sells the Behringer XENYX 1204, so I might go for that out of convenience as it'd be easier to turn in if doesn't work right.

A mixer is an essential part of any recording setup that requires recording musical instruments simultaneously, especially acoustic drums.  Solid state mic pre amps like that are ideal for that sort of thing, and for micing a guitar cab or bass cab.  If you are building a home recording studio to do that sort of thing, a mixer is a good purchase.  But I haven't met a solid state preamp yet that I like for vocals.  I even have a TC Helicon Voicelive unit with a built in burr brown quality preamp, and I still use a tube pre into the line input on that unit, bypassing the solid state preamp entirely.  But I guess it depends to some degree on the individual and their voice, plus the style of music.  Granted, I have not heard the Xenyx preamps, so I can't say for sure that I would not recommend them for vocals. But if you get a mixer, I hope you will consider at least trying out a tube pre for vocals later, and just run the line out on it into one of the direct inputs on the mixer.

Also, if you want to just try stuff out, you can order online from Sweetwater, and of course pay for the item.  They have an excellent returns policy, though you will eat some shipping fees.  It's mostly a good option for trying out high ticket items not available locally.

http://www.sweetwater.com/

Quote
"No Hassle" Return Policy:
We want you to be completely happy with your purchase from Sweetwater. If you are not satisfied with any product, you may return it for a refund of the purchase price, an in-house credit, or exchange for another product within a fair amount of time from the shipping date (30 days or so). If your purchase was eligible for Free Shipping, the shipping cost will be deducted from your credit or refund.

Returns must be in the complete and original packaging with all accessories and complete documentation (Owner's Manual, warranty card, quick start guides etc.), show no signs of wear or use and include a Return Authorization number or be subject to a restocking fee. Products like software, personal items (such as in-ear monitors, etc), and items which are not normally stocked ("Special Orders", discontinued products, close-outs, used products, etc.) are not returnable.

How To Make A Return:
Since we are all about personal contact and personal service, it all begins and ends with Sweetwater Sales Engineers. Call your Sales Engineer to arrange for an RA number (Return Authorization) that you should write on the shipping label. We'll take it from there.

Non-returnable Items:
While we maintain the most liberal return policy in the industry, there are certain items that cannot be returned for very specific reasons. These items include:

Special orders
Software
Over-size or over-weight items
Personal items (earphones, instrument mouthpieces, etc.)


They will also assign you a sales rep who will answer questions and provide technical support.

One thing to watch out for with those mic preamps is to make sure you don't plug into it from a device that has a line out.  If you do that with phantom power on, it can damage equipment downstream, like your pa system.  You'll know when it happens because you'll get instant, painful feedback.  Hopefully, you will have the ability to turn off the phantom power on that unit.
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tekla

Everyone is right about the pre-amp and/or board, any decent board should be able to run that mike, its an industry standard used for vocals, guitar amps (they seem to work with a 4x10 cab as well as anything, and also you can use them on the snare pretty well).  But the 57 is primarily thought of as a spoken word mike while the 58 is the standard singing mike.

For the board, just count the number of gain or level knobs at the top of each channel strip, that will give you the number of pre-amps on the board - ideally there should be one for each channel.

The condensers have problems as noted, and are only used when they must be used.  A standard rock band runs around 15-20 inputs (depending on the number of keyboards) and out of that 2 (at most) are condensers, and that's just for over the drum set to pick up the cymbals.  Everything else is dynamically miked, with well over 1/2 of those being 57s&58s and DIs.

And remember.  I have a cheep $100 dollar (used) Korean guitar.  When I play it it sounds like crap, and I get away with blaming most of that on the guitar.  But from time to time I'll have a friend over who can really play and they can make the thing sound great.  So perhaps its not the guitar at all, just the player.  Same with recordings, all the equipment in the world don't make stuff sound like Dark Side of the Moon, Pink Floyd made it sound like that.  And they made it sound like that on equipment equal to, or less than, some of the stuff being talked about above.  It's like that Shure 58 mike, people love it, and its the industry standard because its good, and rugged - but not too good if you know what I mean.  There are much, much better mikes for picking up a human voice singing (and you'll find them in studios) but sometimes what the 58 doesn't pick up is just as important as what it does. 
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