Would you date a theist?

[Jess42]

A deist. See above.

Thank you dalebert.

If you keep the idea of "god" fairly ambiguous, yes. As far as specific myths go, I think it's perfectly reasonable to put the burden of proof on someone claiming the existence of something. Proving something doesn't exist is impossible but I don't call it faith when people actively disbelieve in leprechauns, mermaids, dragons, and Thor. I'm a strong atheist with respect to Thor and it's ridiculous to call that belief faith-based. The evidence (or lack thereof, depending) overwhelmingly points to him as a fiction created by the imaginations of the culture of his time, as with the other mythical creatures mentioned. It's the reasonable conclusion.

You know in the way of mainstream Chritian religion, that one sentence goes totally against the commandment about hanving graven images of God. Even mental graven images. This is where a lot of Christians hate me especially the ones that knock on my door and give me all kinds of reading material tha I aptiently listen to but they have to listen to me too. They also seem to hate me because the mythical Jesus isn't so mythical to me and that I believe that Mary Magdeline was Jesus' lover or wife.

But thank you for clarifying because I always thought I fell along the lines of Gnosticism and way more mystery in life and death than what a book or any books written long ago contains.

Like I said earlier though I respect all belief systems and it's not up to me to say what is true or not and I guess why I never really fit in any of them and I may add, rejected by all of them like I am Lucifer himself or "Luci" herself in my case.

[Jill F]

You know in the way of mainstream Chritian religion, that one sentence goes totally against the commandment about hanving graven images of God. Even mental graven images. This is where a lot of Christians hate me especially the ones that knock on my door and give me all kinds of reading material tha I aptiently listen to but they have to listen to me too. They also seem to hate me because the mythical Jesus isn't so mythical to me and that I believe that Mary Magdeline was Jesus' lover or wife.

They never seem to knock at my door and just leave it behind on my proch.  I think they just see the garden hose on display, cocked, locked and ready to rock at all times and guess I'm not afraid to use it.

There's a Jill-ism for the reading material they leave behind.  I call it "litterature".

[Jess42]

They never seem to knock at my door and just leave it behind on my proch.  I think they just see the garden hose on display, cocked, locked and ready to rock at all times and guess I'm not afraid to use it.

There's a Jill-ism for the reading material they leave behind.  I call it "litterature".

I like that Jill. I am chatty anyway maybe too much so even. Just look at some of my rambling post. But I will and actually enjoy talking to anybody about points of view and so on with mutual respect and without arguments. They eventually stopped coming by. Could be my custom inverted pentagram door knocker though. I think I'm gonna change my name to Luci.

[Ltl89]

Chatty catty alert!  LTL has made another giant post that probably could have been edited down to major extent! 

Careful!  You'll make the Atheists irrationally angry.

I'm an agnostic atheist (despite my spiritual side) and it doesn't bother me one bit.  The us vs them mentality is a dangerous thing and the cause for so much hate in this world.  One thing I will say, though, is that a lot of us is that atheists are often judged and discriminated against a lot.  Hell, you can die in some parts of the world, just like you can for choosing the "wrong" religion.  It makes no sense.  But despite understanding the frustration that can come from being judged and hated, I don't understand the group think and hate that exists within certain parts of the atheist community  Someone's faith or lack thereof in itself should never be an issue.  What can become an issue is the effects of those beliefs and how one wishes to treat their neighbor's as a result of them.  But most people on both sides don't think that way.  Maybe it's cause my family is so mixed (I'm an atheist, my mom and sister are catholic, and my other sister is muslim) that I try came to feel this way.  Refusing to date someone because of their religion would be like me rejecting my own family.  There is always more to the picture and that's true in most areas (i.e, politics, etc).  Unfortunately, group think is sort of part of the human condition and we often have to fight back against it.  I hate when I let it get to me emotionally at times which does happen.

Religion and spirituality are hot buttons for most of us. Especially distasteful to me are those who chastise others along religion lines in a way that is both arrogant and unloving. Are you also saying you can't date anyone who is so close minded as to believe that there may be a being who created the universe? Or date someone who tries to become one with the spirit of that universe?  One definition of spirituality is the search for the sacred.  If I believe in the sacredness of children or of the environment, is it OK. Where do you draw the line?

While I am open to dating a theist, the truth is we all discriminate when it comes to dating to some degree. That's sort of impossible not to do when you are trying to find the right match for yourself.  I even feel guilty that I have decided to discriminate by gender by only considering dating guys, but you can't help what you like and what you want out of a relationship.  Even if I say never say never in my head, isn't that a discriminative thing to do?   Likewise, finding the right match for us will require us to follow our heart and that means sometimes certain qualities are more attractive or deal breakers for a relationship.  For me their faith or religion isn't bothersome itself, but I may be discriminative based on the effects their beliefs could have.  For example, if someone told me that I'd have to convert to be with them (yes this happens al the time) I couldn't date them.  If they are anti gay or trans, I'd obviously wouldn't want to be with them because I would feel they aren't accepting of who I am.  If they tell me my children would be raised stictly one way and would be taught to scoff other ideas, I couldn't accept that regardless of their beliefs.  It really depends on who they are, what kind of soul they have, and what we both want out of our lives.

Having said that, it should be pointing out that religion tends to be important for most people when selecting a partner.  Atheists are also rejected all the time the dating game.  How many theists out there would refuse to date someone because of their views?  I'm sure many.  Maybe they want their partner or children to follow the same beliefs and set of values.  The same thing can be true with atheists.   Personally, I just want to be with someone open-minded, empathetic, compassionate and caring.  Their faith itself is irrelevant, but the same isn't true for many out there (theist and atheist alike).

I like this.

Not sure I like this. Is it possible to be educated and still be a theist?

I mean, I've come to the logical conclusion that it's not likely there's a God, but couldn't someone see all the strangeness of the universe and conclude that it's more likely this didn't come about as a random event?

I mean, take life for example. The process by which life is replicated requires a genetic code (DNA, e.g.), a way of transferring that code without destroying it (for us, a handful of enzymes so complex their structure defies human envisioning), and a way of using it to produce a copy of itself (for us, a ribosome, a biological structure so unbelievably intricate and compact that it rivals anything technology has created).

With any two of those mechanisms, life snuffs out as fast as it's created. The only way it replicates is if all three appear at pretty much the same time.

Could someone educated not conclude that this is something too unlikely to happen by chance?

I agree that it's possible to be educated and be a theist.

[Umiko]

i'm a wiccan, so does that make me a theist? 

[JamesG]

Yes.  Welcome to the ig'nernt backwards savage monkey club.

Thank you dalebert.

You know in the way of mainstream Chritian religion, that one sentence goes totally against the commandment about hanving graven images of God. Even mental graven images.

That is true. One of the compromises Christianity "inherited" when it adapted and incorporated pagan cultures into it instead of remaining an insular Jewish cult. 

[Ltl89]

i'm a wiccan, so does that make me a theist? 

Depends.  Most wiccan's believe in the goddess, so that's belief in a god.  However, there are some wiccan's that interpret the goddess as a symbolic thing.  If you don't believe in the entity itself and see it as symbolism or a unknown force, then you may not be a theist.  Theism is just a belief in a god or gods, not spirituality.

[BunnyBee]

I guess if they were as chill as me about faith and spirituality then sure.  If they were remotely hardcore, ehhhhh I see too much tension happening there.

[Jess42]

i'm a wiccan, so does that make me a theist? 

Probably better with better morals than Jimmy Swaggart and Jim Baker and Benny Hinn. I'll stop now cause the list will go on for pages.

That is true. One of the compromises Christianity "inherited" when it adapted and incorporated pagan cultures into it instead of remaining an insular Jewish cult. 

Yeah it never ceases to amaze me how many people of faith have no idea about gift giving close to the winter solstice and the christmas tree are paganistic. Especially when all the historical data and information taken from the bible even points to Christ being born in the spring. The biggie is shepards in the fields watching over thier flocks. When they did that it was during birthing season to keep predators at bay form newly born and birthing sheep.

[JamesG]

Depends.  Most wiccan's believe in the goddess, so that's belief in a god.  However, there are some wiccan's that interpret the goddess as a symbolic thing.  If you don't believe in the entity itself and see it as symbolism or a unknown force, then you may not be a theist.  Theism is just a belief in a god or gods, not spirituality.

But "spirits", "ancestors", "spaghetti monsters", etc. all pretty much perform the same function as gods as the foci of faith/emotional energy.  If you pray to it, you're a theist.

[Jill F]

But "spirits", "ancestors", "spaghetti monsters", etc. all pretty much perform the same function as gods as the foci of faith/emotional energy.  If you pray to it, you're a theist.

You all know the spaghetti monster is just a farcical analogue used by atheists to make a mockery of organized religion, right?  Just checking...

[Umiko]

ah, i'm a scientific realistic non theistic wiccan than o.o

[Jess42]

I try not to limit myself. I pretty much see differences in theologies pretty much the same as differences al liking different TV shows, foods, Clothing or anything else. Even less so because the theist/antithiest debate isn't something that we are ever really gonna know until we stop breathing. Feeling so strongly about one or the other may limit me or anyone else in finding that one special love that everything else fits perfectly except something that can't even be proven. I would date a Satanist and I would date a Roman Catholic and I would date an atheist as long as everything else was compatable and repectful enough to not have fights over the one thing that they may disagree on. Does that seem crazy?

I'd even date a spaghetti monster if there were meatballs and parmesian cheese in the mix.

[JamesG]

You all know the spaghetti monster is just a farcical analogue used by atheists to make a mockery of organized religion, right?  Just checking...

How dare you insult the great and all powerful spaghetti monster!  Now I'm going to have to do a jihad on your ass. 

[Ltl89]

But "spirits", "ancestors", "spaghetti monsters", etc. all pretty much perform the same function as gods as the foci of faith/emotional energy.  If you pray to it, you're a theist.

I don't think that's necessarily true.  Look at Levayian Satanists.  They believe in magick and spirituality, but they are atheists.  Buddhists also believe in spirituality as well, but there is no god.  If you believe in a spiritual entity in itself, like the goddess, you would be a theist.  If you think the goddess isn't real, but symbolic or a force, then I don't think that's really a belief in a god as we usually define it.  Then again, the concept of god could be applied in many different ways, it's just not common to apply theism to these alternative views.  However, I do see what your saying and you make a point.   I guess it depends.   

You all know the spaghetti monster is just a farcical analogue used by atheists to make a mockery of organized religion, right?  Just checking...

Not true!  I've been touched by his noodly appendage and can assure you he exists! Raman!

[Jill F]

How dare you insult the great and all powerful spaghetti monster!  Now I'm going to have to do a jihad on your ass. 

That's it, people. Pasta it is for lunch!   

Screw the carbs.

[f_Anna_tastic]

I also believe it takes just as much faith to declare that there is no god as it does to declare that there is.

It doesn't take faith at all.  All evidence points to the fact that the universe was created without any recourse or need for a creator.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. There is zero quantifiable evidence for a God. Zero.

I wish someone could provide me evidence.  I'm an open minded person.  I am willing to change my mind if someone can prove there is a god.

Faith isn't a virtue. Believing something without any evidence is stupidity.

[JamesG]

It doesn't take faith at all.  All evidence points to the fact that the universe was created without any recourse or need for a creator.

Opinion.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. There is zero quantifiable evidence for a God. Zero.

Zero evidence that there isn't a God either...

I wish someone could provide me evidence.  I'm an open minded person.  I am willing to change my mind if someone can prove there is a god.

Right.....

Faith isn't a virtue. Believing something without any evidence is stupidity.

Or its a test of your ability to have faith and sense that there is more to reality than can be quantifiablely measured.

Something about religion that most Atheists miss is that the "hocus pokus mystasizham!" isn't really the point.  Even the "after you die?" part.  Religions form a sociocultural framework and support structure. They provide a context for people's lives that, until recently was brutal and unfair (and often still is).  It doesn't matter if its true or not. It makes people feel better and relate to one another.  That is the "Big Picture" more than if there is some old dude looking down from a cloud somewhere.

[DriftingCrow]

You may call be stupid, but I am certainly not uneducated (tomorrow, I'll be getting a doctorate degree  ), and I am not an atheist (I try my best to follow Sikh dharma, but fail miserably most of the time, and I still have some pagan beliefs in me).

However, for some reverse perspective. . .

Having said that, it should be pointing out that religion tends to be important for most people when selecting a partner.  Atheists are also rejected all the time the dating game.  How many theists out there would refuse to date someone because of their views?  I'm sure many.  Maybe they want their partner or children to follow the same beliefs and set of values.  The same thing can be true with atheists.   Personally, I just want to be with someone open-minded, empathetic, compassionate and caring.  Their faith itself is irrelevant, but the same isn't true for many out there (theist and atheist alike).

I agree that it's possible to be educated and be a theist.

I don't have kids yet, but probably will one day. I am married to an atheist who follows some Buddhism. It's not a problem at all, it's quite fun to have a mixture of beliefs. If we have kids, children would have a choice on what they'd follow -- I'd probably bring them to Gurdwara (Sikh temple) a few times a month, but allow my father to take them to Christian church if he's around, and allow my partner to keep the kids home on Sundays to watch football or take them to Buddhist meets. Once they get old enough to think, they can make a decision on what they want to follow (and change their minds as often as they please). If I had money, I'd hire my kids a good science/math tutor, because its so important to have a good scientific background nowadays to get a good job (science is extremely compatible with Sikhi and Buddhism, so its in no way a "threat" to the beliefs).

Good luck in your journeys finding partners who you love and respect.

[Ltl89]

You may call be stupid, but I am certainly not uneducated (tomorrow, I'll be getting a doctorate degree  ), and I am not an atheist (I try my best to follow Sikh dharma, but fail miserably most of the time, and I still have some pagan beliefs in me).

However, for some reverse perspective. . .
I don't have kids yet, but probably will one day. I am married to an atheist who follows some Buddhism. It's not a problem at all, it's quite fun to have a mixture of beliefs. If we have kids, children would have a choice on what they'd follow -- I'd probably bring them to Gurdwara (Sikh temple) a few times a month, but allow my father to take them to Christian church if he's around, and allow my partner to keep the kids home on Sundays to watch football or take them to Buddhist meets. Once they get old enough to think, they can make a decision on what they want to follow (and change their minds as often as they please). If I had money, I'd hire my kids a good science/math tutor, because its so important to have a good scientific background nowadays to get a good job (science is extremely compatible with Sikhi and Buddhism, so its in no way a "threat" to the beliefs).

Good luck in your journeys finding partners who you love and respect.

I think it's great that you and your SO are both open minded with your beliefs.  That's what partners and parents should be like.  Let their children find their own path yet provide them guidance along the way.  Sadly, many people have a hard time with this.  My mom forces me to hide my religious views and tells me that I will always be a catholic.  Same thing with my sister even though she has converted to Islam and has chosen a different path.  Sometimes people desire homogeneity in their family which I personally can't understand.  Everyone's got to find what works for them and it doesn't have to cause conflict. 

By the way, congrats on getting your doctorate!  That's awesome news!