What does being treated like a female feel like?

[Kristyn]

It is angering and demeaning to know that you are seen as lesser and worthless. You can't do anything and if you have an opinion, shut up no one wants to hear it. You have no right to live is the way your treated and only worth what a guy can get from you before they throw you away.


I have issues.

Now THAT is what I experience!  Not to mention dirty looks from many cis gendered women, gossip and catty behavior in the workplace.  Hmmm, I wonder why?

[Fencesitter]

@Arch

Agree 100%. (Apart from the chest thing, I have never gotten any satisfaction out of it.)

If your car stalls out on the freeway, the CHP officer might sit there and wait with you while the tow truck comes.

A little addition: this is perfectly okay, as it's somewhat weird to stand around alone on a freeway as a woman, you just don't feel secure. Oh, that's another point. Walking alone in the streets at night is more awkward as a female. Although as a male, you are not secure either, as you may be beaten up horribly which is not any better (my first boyfriend and a male friend of him had been beaten up horribly by neo-nazi skins as he was a punk, and that left him with a full-blown post-traumatic stress disorder).

But you somehow feel more secure as a male. I must add, the three major groups of potentially dangerous trouble-makers we have here on the streets in Germany are drunken groups of neo-nazi skins, young turkish male gangs and drunken hooligan gangs. Now hooligan gangs causing trouble we don't have in my city as far as I know. Ice hockey is big here as we have a great ice hockey team. Soccer is less popular as our soccer team sucks, and ice hockey hools just don't seem to exist, never heard of any. Ice hockey fans are cool and peaceful.

For the Turkish gangs, I have a good Italian, Yugoslavian or even Turkish passing by nature, and they don't beat up Turks, Yugos or Italians they don't know. For the neo-nazi skins I still pass as a German or at least they are not sure if I am German or foreigner. Plus this city is so dominated by Turkish gangs that our neo-nazi skins always seem intimidated when they go to town and dare not cause trouble here apart from one district where I never ever go. So none of these groups bother me. Plus, I always wear "neutral" clothes which don't give away my nationality or sexual orientation and I know exactly why.

I might still get in trouble one day if a Turkish or neo-nazi gang spots me as gay, but then I might still talk myself out of trouble by saying I'm just a French guy (which is true). French guys are always considered as behaving flaming even if they are straight. And our German neo-nazis hate foreigners, but can stomach Frenchmen better than many other nationalities.

Well, altogether, I don't worry too much here. Just the danger of being violated got swapped by the danger of being beaten up, and the latter is not big in my case. I'm small and frail, but anyway, you get mostly beaten up by gangs, so it does not make a big difference.

[Kristyn]

Walking alone in the streets at night is more awkward.

Walking alone on the streets any time of the day can feel awkward depending on where you live.  I don't particularly enjoy being gawked at and honked at.  Or how about those guys who drive by you ever soooooooo slowly on the side streets?  Being female really changes your perspective on many things and you really have to be aware, not only of your surroundings, but who you are talking with at all times as well.

[V M]

Walking alone on the streets any time of the day can feel awkward depending on where you live.  I don't particularly enjoy being gawked at and honked at.  Or how about those guys who drive by you ever soooooooo slowly on the side streets?  Being female really changes your perspective on many things and you really have to be aware, not only of your surroundings, but who you are talking with at all times as well.

Yes, even riding a bicycle isn't much better when most of the guys are going about in big 4x4s

I've even gotten chastised for being out after dark

[Kristyn]

Yes, even riding a bicycle isn't much better when most of the guys are going about in big 4x4s

I've even gotten chastised for being out after dark

The biggest thing I learned about being female is that there are a lot of people out there who are just waiting to take advantage of you--both male and female--and you truly have to watch your own back.  Some guys will chat you up and make you feel like gold for the sole purpose of having a piece of you and some women will befriend you simply because you have something they want.  At least that's how it is in my world.

[Vanessa_yhvh]

Hmm. I was assaulted enough times as a white guy in North America that I can't imagine I'll have it much worse as a white gal.

[Fencesitter]

And parking lots worry me a bit in the day time and really freak me out at night.  I always look around first to see if lot security is near by or other women.  I feel safer if there are plenty of women around.  Safety in numbers they say.  If there are a lot of men around and few or no women, I feel very anxious.

If the guys have no connection to each another, you might still be as secure as with many women around (even if it does not feel so for you). Sometimes, in such situations, guys keep a woman secretly in a corner of their eyes to be aware in case she gets attacked. You might also notice some guys in such situations take an extra distance to you in an effort not to frighten you, or suddenly walk somewhat slower behind you so that the distance increases and you feel more secure after a few dozen footsteps. Observe this behavior for a while, you will be amazed that some guys are considerate and decent.

I've noticed this quite a lot of times before transition and still do now. I also always keep people in the corner of my eyes since long before transition, learned this from my first boy-friend. He was immediately aware if 300 feet away, anything weird happened. His awareness was due to his post-traumatic stress disorder and was somewhat paranoid, but it was very charming, considerate and gentleman-like when someone fell down and he immediately rushed there to help. That's why I adopted his behavior. Plus, I had to learn this "don't be afraid of me" male behavior after changing the sides. Before, I made women afraid of me a couple of times unwillingly. 

That's one of the worst experiences when you change the side as an FTM. You suddenly become a potential aggressor who could violate women (with what?). You make women afraid of you without wanting to. Although this effect is not strong in my case, I am slim and 5,1 feet tall, most females are taller than me here, it is awful to inspire fear. As I know exactly what it feels like for them.

[FairyGirl]

I have noticed a lot of good things, some bad things. Some people talk to you in a condescending way simply because you're female. They assume you're dumb. Mostly people smile more and are generally nicer and more polite, especially men, which I like. Honestly it's becoming harder to remember what it was like to not be treated as female. I will never ever be anything else, so I'm perfectly okay with it, good or bad.

What Fencesitter said is good and true, and after a scary episode last year I am always very aware of what's going on and who happens to be around me. The brutal truth is I can be raped now, and just the thought of that is enough to keep me on alert anytime I'm out, especially when alone.

[Fencesitter]

About rape danger: a pre-op MTF, an acquaintance of my ex-girlfriend, was assaulted in Francfort by a Turkish male gang at night. They wanted to rape her and by undressing her, they found out she was trans. This angered them to a point that instead of raping her, they beat her up horribly and she had a long hospital stay. 

Now don't get me wrong about the Turks. Most Turks here are pretty decent, it's an interesting culture with tasty (though fatty) food. They came here with nothing more than a suitcase since about 50 years ago and usually, bad education. They took up bad low-class jobs, were treated like sh*t then because they did not look or behave "aryan", worked a lot and built up an existence in a country which has a cold climate, a different religion, is not that used to immigrant waves. And Germany has an extremely different mentality from the Turkish mentality. (German mentality is very special, extreme and unique for a European country and very different from the mediterranean mentality, and it's maybe even closer to Japanese mentality than to any other mentality in Europe. It's hard to deal with unless you work in the Navy.)

The Turks and their offspring had more trouble adapting here than any other foreigners, and they are the biggest group of foreigners we have, so they could form their own subculture. Being low-class immigrants and a remarkable analphabetism rate did not make things easier for their offspring, helping at homework and stuff. Plus, the Turkish language was only put into alphabet about 80 years ago, and the Turkish analphabetism rate has decreased a lot, but is still remarkable and explainable with this background. They have built up so much of their infrastructure that you needn't understand even one word of German to have a job, buy your stuff, rent a room, you needn't deal with German food or ingredients, can do your banking stuff in Turkish etc., at least in my city.

Now the female offspring usually does well at high school and get at least decent low-class jobs if not more. Many young Turkish males do very well, too, but some break off school and then are jobless cast-offs, often without jobs. The girls they date have better education and better jobs, which does not harmonize with the Turkish macho culture. And Turkish people are still treated as second-class people by the Germany. Plus Germany has not taken care of doing any integration programmes for decades (German language training etc.), thinking they will all go back home on their own anyway. Like I said, Germany has no clue when it comes to immigrants. Well and that's where the problem starts - and it ends up with Turkish gangs beating the sh*t out of MTFs. I don't want to excuse this behavior, just explain where that comes from.
Post Merge: August 07, 2010, 02:08:56 PM

Men will rarely display any facial expressions in public.  And when men pass other men in the store or walking, they give this little nod to one another.  No smile, nothing.  Just a little nod of recognition.

Men do not do that to women, it's a guys only thing.

Women however, we always smile at one another.

Thank you for this hint. Oh sh*t, I should really consider maybe to adapt more. I don't manage to do this nod thing. And I smile a lot. Since passing, I have noticed women get along with me very well (which did not work that well before). Many males seem to have problems with my behavior, though. This might be the reason. But my smile is not mechanical, I smile when I feel like smiling and I don't want to hide it. Should drop the "I'm a Frenchman" sentence more often to explain gender-variant behavior, and learn the nodding thing.

[V M]

Many guys are considerate, respectful and even rather protective

I have notice that the type of guy tends to change when it gets dark out

But I've also learned to be aware at all times (something I learned long before transitioning)

[Fencesitter]

Many guys are considerate, respectful and even rather protective

I have notice that the type of guy tends to change when it gets dark out

Protective guys tend to have families and to protect them and be around them, so they are not that much out at night.
Post Merge: August 07, 2010, 06:21:15 PM

Hmm. I was assaulted enough times as a white guy in North America that I can't imagine I'll have it much worse as a white gal.

What do you mean by that, and what happened to you?

[Alainaluvsu]

Men will rarely display any facial expressions in public.  And when men pass other men in the store or walking, they give this little nod to one another.  No smile, nothing.  Just a little nod of recognition.

Men do not do that to women, it's a guys only thing.

Women however, we always smile at one another.  Unless you're a real bitch with a stick up your backside.  So like in the store when you pass another woman on an isle you usually exchange this little smile with the other woman.  A recognition thing.

But women rarely smile at men like that unless they have "intentions" in mind.
Women will usually avoid the glances of men, not meeting gazes and not smiling.  It's like if you do the guy will think you're coming on to him and then you have a horny man to contend with.   
Men get horny if the wind blows.

I live alone so sometimes I have to do home repairs or have to repair lawn care stuff when it breaks.  I can not afford to pay people to fix things for me.

I've found that people in general DO assume that women are less mechanically inclined and they treated us accordingly.   So, as to not draw undue attention to myself, when I have to go looking for things that men normally do, I play the dipstick chick role.

Like when I went looking for a lawnmower part, I told them "I need that thing that connects the blade thing so when you push the lever the blades spin" rather than ask for the specific part, of which I knew the name and part number of.  I let the guy look it up for me and he seemed happy to help out the dippy chick.  I was on a mission for my spouse ya know.   

I do the same thing when I go the the Lowe's or Home Depot.  I ask for things and thingies that make the round thing stay on the ceiling and stuff like that.  I always ask for help finding things rather than just marching right in and pulling the item off the shelf.  The men are always nice and helpful and to be honest, I rather enjoy them helping me and some of them are cute.   

There's nothing wrong with being a smart, savvy female, not at all.  But in general the stereotype is that we are inept, helpless little creatures that need men to come to our rescue.  Ok, so that's the way it is.  I can deal with it and I go ahead and take advantage of it.  Why not? 

Yes, men do that, nod but no smile (unless they're a jerk). Women, however, if you make eye contact and your intent isn't "damnnn you're hot" or something, and you smile - they tend to smile back; especially you meekly greet them (of course, unless they have a stick up their backside as you've said). It's all about the eyes. People can read the eyes, it is subconscious I think.

As far as the trip to the hardware store, as a male I even tend to describe it like a female would, lol.. and I get helped. Actually, in your case I'd be like "Soo.. my lawnmower blade flew off, where are the parts for it" .. and they say the isle. However, I imagine as a woman, they'd probably walk you to the isle, point out the parts, and try to help you locate the specific part instead of saying "isle 6". Must be nice!

[V M]

LOL... I just got back from the store where I asked the girl at the checkout if they sold individual postage stamps... She didn't know and asked the mgr. who  came over and told my boobs that they only sell books of stamps

[Myself]

People have less serious tones and faces around you. At least, that's what I notice in retrospect as male. But that also means people smile more at you. Of course, I'm just talking about everyday strangers here.

That! Also people might treat you a bit silly or clueless even when you totally know everything and they don't (university experience.. nothing masculine O_o) And then they might act stupid and always ask for you help... others won't, it's an example.

Umm.. let's see.. random people doing really stupid and silly things and actually think you'll like them and date with them. Non random people doing less silly (and less ugly things thankfully) in hope for more...

People being nicer, women definitely more open and helpful to women than men to each other in my university experience.

People in general being more helpful actually.

Here at work, female customers and workers like to greet and stay for a little talk even if they don't know me. Men might say Hi and move on

I dunno.. stuff.. it's different but not horribly different - I mean, you would just say "well they act usual.. like humans", I don't think any behaviour changes will be of any surprise to anyone, but might just be more appealing.

[Arch]

LOL... I just got back from the store where I asked the girl at the checkout if they sold individual postage stamps... She didn't know and asked the mgr. who  came over and told my boobs that they only sell books of stamps

No doubt he thought you were looking for pasties, not posties.

[lilacwoman]

despite all the talk of he equality of sexes men still treat women as different so I enjoy getting the 'Thank you, love' from shop assistants and included in women chat at the office and having guys offer to lift and carry and stuff.
it's a bit annoying but funny how I'm no longer a far better mechanic/carpenter/painter than most men
a couple of weeks ago I asked to join the local crown green bowling but was told, Sorry Miss this is male-only.
one annoyance I do find is when shopping and having to juggle a shoulder bag that insists on slipping off my shoulder, with a bag of groceries, and trying to open my purse to get coins out.
..male life with money in my jacket pocket made shopping so much easier...now there are times when I need four hands...but no matter how long it takes to get the coins out no-one gets annoyed with me whereas when I was male and kept the assistants waiting they showed annoyance very quickly.

[Fencesitter]

@lilacwoman

The shoulder bag thing is the most unexplainable female phenomenon for me. The most uncomfortable way of carrying your stuff but they still use it all the time. I rarely used these things and always put my stuff into my trouser pockets and/or into rucksacks. Got yelled at for this often by my mom as a kid, but she finally resigned.

[lilacwoman]

@lilacwoman
The shoulder bag thing is the most unexplainable female phenomenon for me. The most uncomfortable way of carrying your stuff but they still use it all the time. I rarely used these things and always put my stuff into my trouser pockets and/or into rucksacks. Got yelled at for this often by my mom as a kid, but she finally resigned.

a shoulder bag is a thing of beauty while a rucksack is just a lump on your back...

[Fencesitter]

a shoulder bag is a thing of beauty while a rucksack is just a lump on your back...

Function follows form? Ooookaaaayyy....
Well you can still buy these rubber thingies which you put on the handle so that the shoulder bag does not slip off from your shoulder so easily. It's the most important invention of the 20th century right after the nuclear bomb and the internet.

[Cruelladeville]

Life is what you make it... with actions and deeds...

If you give out good....you'll get it back in return for sure...

Perhaps the clue her is to focus on being an enlightened being...than getting too hung up on the sex and plumbing part?