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First time with FtM, need help

Started by devikalika, August 07, 2010, 05:33:32 PM

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lilacwoman

Quote from: tekla on August 08, 2010, 11:22:12 PM
If you take the Kinsey study for example, it was all based around sexual behaviour.

And it was based entirely on the surveys of people incarcerated in institutional settings.  It might make a difference.
Kinsey's work never made much impact here in the UK so I had no idea his research was on jailbirds or similar.  That makes it very suspect.   But then wasn't he a closet gay with is own agenda?
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kestin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinsey_Reports#Findings

There was further analysis done after their initial publication, if you read the last paragraph it talks about how even after they removed the stats taken from prison populations etc, it affected the overall results very little.

The reports also state that nearly 46% of the male subjects had "reacted" sexually to persons of both sexes in the course of their adult lives, and 37% had at least one homosexual experience.[7]  11.6% of white males (ages 20–35) were given a rating of 3 (about equal heterosexual and homosexual experience/response) throughout their adult lives.[8]  The study also reported that 10% of American males surveyed were "more or less exclusively homosexual for at least three years between the ages of 16 and 55" (in the 5 to 6 range).[9]

7% of single females (ages 20–35) and 4% of previously married females (ages 20–35) were given a rating of 3 (about equal heterosexual and homosexual experience/response) on Kinsey Heterosexual-Homosexual Rating Scale for this period of their lives.[10] 2 to 6% of females, aged 20–35, were more or less exclusively homosexual in experience/response,[11] and 1 to 3% of unmarried females aged 20–35 were exclusively homosexual in experience/response.[12]

Academic criticisms were made pertaining to sample selection and sample bias in the reports' methodology. Two main problems cited were that significant portions of the samples come from prison populations and male prostitutes, and that people who volunteer to be interviewed about taboo subject are likely to suffer from the problem of self-selection. Both undermine the usefulness of the sample in terms of determining the tendencies of the overall population. In 1948, the same year as the original publication, a committee of the American Statistical Association, including notable statisticians such as John Tukey, condemned the sampling procedure. Tukey was perhaps the most vocal critic, saying, "A random selection of three people would have been better than a group of 300 chosen by Mr. Kinsey."[13][14] Criticism principally revolved around the over-representation of some groups in the sample: 25% were, or had been, prison inmates, and 5% were male prostitutes.[citation needed] Psychologist Abraham Maslow asserted that Kinsey did not consider "volunteer bias". The data represented only those volunteering to participate in discussion of taboo topics. Most Americans were reluctant to discuss the intimate details of their sex lives even with their spouses and close friends. Before the publication of Kinsey's reports, Maslow tested Kinsey's volunteers for bias. He concluded that Kinsey's sample was unrepresentative of the general population.[15]

In response, Paul Gebhard, Kinsey's successor as director of the Kinsey Institute for Sex Research, cleaned the Kinsey data of purported contaminants, removing, for example, all material derived from prison populations in the basic sample. In 1979, Gebhard (with Alan B. Johnson) published The Kinsey Data: Marginal Tabulations of the 1938–1963 Interviews Conducted by the Institute for Sex Research. Their conclusion, to Gebhard's surprise he claimed, was that none of Kinsey's original estimates were significantly affected by this bias: that is, prison population, male prostitutes, and those who willingly participated in discussion of previously taboo sexual topics had the same statistical tendency as the general population. The results were summarized by historian, playwright, and gay-rights activist Martin Duberman, "Instead of Kinsey's 37% (men who had at least one homosexual experience), Gebhard and Johnson came up with 36.4%; the 10% figure (men who were "more or less exclusively homosexual for at least three years between the ages of 16 and 55"), with prison inmates excluded, came to 9.9% for white, college-educated males and 12.7% for those with less education.[6]
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Nimetön

I should point out that many of Kinsey's numbers, while politically convenient and satisfying in coffee-shop conversation, do not agree with subsequent research by other parties, including the CDC and academic sources.  If you are a college student, you probably have access to the journals of public health and policy and the records of the CDC, which will provide multiple academic and medical studies and reproducible scientific results.

You can easily sustain your argument without reference to Kinsey, however.

- N
While it is entirely possible that your enemy entertains some irrational prejudice against you, for which you bear no responsibility... have you entertained the possibility that you are wrong?
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Fencesitter

Quote from: lilacwoman on August 09, 2010, 02:04:46 PM
Kinsey's work never made much impact here in the UK so I had no idea his research was on jailbirds or similar.  That makes it very suspect.   But then wasn't he a closet gay with is own agenda?

Kinsey was not a closet gay, but an openly bi guy (at least out in his private life) His marriage was an open relationship.  I don't think he was a closet gay as then he would probably not have had sex so willingly with both males and females in addition to sleeping with his wife. He would rather have skipped all or most his sexual encounters with other women.

However, being bi may have made him biased (no pun intended) to put more people into the bisexual box than might be appropriate. Some bi people seem to be convinced that in fact, "everybody's bi", even without Kinsey's studies, cause people in general tend to think that everybody's like themselves.
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justmeinoz

Getting back to devi's original questions, if you are in the USA and are "Born Again" Christians, you would be waiting until after you married to have sex, wouldn't you? In effect, is your situation all that different from a lot of other people, even if the details differ?
Just some food for thought.
   
"Don't ask me, it was on fire when I lay down on it"
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devikalika

@lilacwoman: I have an immediate issue with any blanket statement that tries to represent any population of people. Sexuality is often fluid and tied into a variety of factors from identity to politics to gender to mere preference, and everything in between. You're certainly entitled to your opinion about how to define sexuality, but I don't think it's fair to say something like, "Well, I know gay people and this is what they are." Of course, this is just my opinion as well. :)

@everyone: Thank you for your continued support and for sharing your thoughts and experiences with me. As I mentioned, I don't really know anyone that I can talk to in my day to day life about this, or my own gender identity and sexuality, and it has made a world of difference to me to feel like there are other people out there who "get it." The side discussion about Kinsey and sexual identity was really interesting too!

Just as an update... Things have been progressing about the same between us. My feelings keep getting stronger and I am sometimes finding myself dancing around the big scary 'L' word (and I don't mean "lesbian" :P), but that's a whole different issue for me. We sort of talked about the concept of a relationship, but he says he hates titles and I said that I'm willing to go along with that. As I've said, I feel very strongly for him and I want him to feel comfortable with "us," however we define it (or don't), so I'm really just playing it by ear. I just want him to be happy (and I'm happy with him). :)
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lilacwoman

Quote from: devikalika on August 10, 2010, 02:05:36 PM
@lilacwoman: I have an immediate issue with any blanket statement that tries to represent any population of people.
is it Ok if I use the blanket statement that practically all rapes are perpetrated by men?  :D
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devikalika

Quote from: lilacwoman on August 10, 2010, 02:41:12 PM
is it Ok if I use the blanket statement that practically all rapes are perpetrated by men?  :D
I'm not really interested in arguing with you, and rape is not a topic I want to get into at all on this thread. My point was simply that the particular group of people you were trying to lump together may not be so easily described. I appreciate your input and your insight but I just happen to disagree with you.
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Janet_Girl

Enough.  This has drifted off the topic and is becoming non supportive.

Topic locked
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