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how long before you lost the ability to understand the opposite sex?

Started by milktea, August 11, 2010, 12:44:56 PM

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Northern Jane

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Fencesitter

Quote from: kyril on August 14, 2010, 04:54:39 AM
That's kind of how certain "object" talk functions for guys - cars and sports for one subgroup, computers and gaming for another, politics and foreign policy for another, and when all else fails fall back on beer and food.

The difference, I think, is in the lack of personal investment in the topic - it's not terribly rude to redirect the conversation if, for instance, you're a guy who doesn't have a clue about cars. Women seem much more inclined to talk about things they're personally invested in to people they just met. And it's much ruder to tell someone "I don't really care to hear about your kid/cat/ailing mother/the crocheted doilies you spent the last week making by hand for this gathering. Let me tell you about my dog/garden/weight loss regimen." than it is to say "I don't really know anything about cars. Hey, you remember Nintendo?"

Very well said!
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Vanessa_yhvh

I never understood guys for the most part, and certainly didn't understand women.

At this point, I have begun to sneer at a lot of male thinking (the way my girlfriends did at mine back in the day lol), and at least I've been having a months-long "ohhhhhhh, that's what the fuss is all about" dawning of insight with women.

Most unexpected twist so far? I find I'm bonding amazingly well with transguys. If I had to nominate for "best of species" I'd have to seriously consider the lot of 'em taken as a whole.
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rejennyrated

Oh dear... I actually understand both sexes just fine. :embarrassed:

Now if you were to ask me which group I feel more natural synergy and sympathy with that would of course be females. To that is a much more natural way to be, kind of what I might call my default behavior.

But if I am to be honest I have never lost the ability to "perform" full male mode if necessary to get results, or indeed to understand it. (But if I do so it is a case of "performance" much like acting I guess.)

I guess I am just a good chameleon. :laugh:
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Alainaluvsu

I've always understood females to a certain extent. There are countless times when a guy will say something to his wife while I'm in the room and all I can do is make that "ooooo that's gonna cost you" face.

Men, on the other hand I can understand simply because I have experienced the social and hormonal influences that they go through. I do not understand the need to be completely competitive over everything, or to always brag or be soo egotistical. Nor do I understand the need to always pick on somebody and belittle them (hazing of sorts) for entertainment.

Not to put down men, I find some of those traits can be quite attractive if used in moderation (and helpful too). But men do have a tendency to do it in ways that make me just go "... why???"
To dream of the person you would like to be is to waste the person you are.



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JosephKT

Ugh- I don't understand girls at all.  All my life, friendships, relationships even co-workers women are just... incomprehensible.  Men on the other hand, I've always understood, maybe a little less romantically, but that just requires decent communication.  No amount of communication seems to help with women, though someone when they get it through their heads that I'm not one of them things seem to work out a bit better.  This isn't to say I don't have female friends, my male friends just also end up closer and understand me better.  Sadly, I must admit I know strangely well how to manipulate girls in romantic relationship and milked that as far as it would go for a time.
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Cindy

I must be progressing, I even got the 'I need to go to the loo call' from a female friend, when neither of us had the 'need' but then we did.

I have to admit the baby talk and the periods talk wanes very quickly. But so does the building the pergola, digging out the garden and do you reckon a V6 or the V8, reckon it it look good with mags, staying in to watch Bathhurst with an esky full of VB.

I think the hormonal drives are so different. T makes you go and do things in a fairly blunt fashion.  This needs to be fixed I'll hit it with a hammer. E seems to involve discussion, this needs to be fixed, I call my friends and ask the best way of doing it.

I would be wrong in suggesting this is a purely hormonal or chromosome thing. It's is also very much learned behaviour. Also there is a massive spectrum, there are fantastic females in so called male jobs and fantastic males in so called female jobs.
However I am finding after being on HRT for a little while that going out and doing the boy stuff doesn't interest me. But it never did. It was what I did to show the world I was a guy. Now I'm free of that I'm responding in a more feminine way. Is that due to HRT or due to accepting me?

Fun post

Cindy


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noeleena

Hi.

Men , well a lot do things , because they wont some thing wether its the bed room, sex ,  or look what iv just done & get your.  oh thats nice & complements.
where as most women just get on do what needs to be done or a nice chat , a woman needs time if you like to warm up to the bed room & all the little things that go before that .

men need to show thier prowess  & how strong they are or the mines bigger . wether its cars trucks or what ever. sports is the big thing. & having to prove them selfs.

Thats what iv seen i worked with them long enough to know try 46 years .
& do i relate to men not one bit,  sorry guys im too much a woman ,& all ways was ,
  yet i do understand them,  tho im glad to be away from all that.
I all so know those of us who have a mix of both m & f can be with training not need to think about some things & just do this job or fix that or do this . with out haveing to think how to do it . thats a part of our life for me theres a balance between the two .

Having both sides you can see things a lot better & you learn as you go.

...noeleena...
Hi. from New Zealand, Im a woman of difference & intersex who is living life to the full.   we have 3 grown up kids and 11 grand kid's 6 boy's & 5 girl's,
Jos and i are still friends and  is very happy with her new life with someone.
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Fencesitter

Quote from: CindyJames on August 16, 2010, 04:01:36 AMI think the hormonal drives are so different. T makes you go and do things in a fairly blunt fashion.  This needs to be fixed I'll hit it with a hammer. E seems to involve discussion, this needs to be fixed, I call my friends and ask the best way of doing it.

I would be wrong in suggesting this is a purely hormonal or chromosome thing. It's is also very much learned behaviour.

I agree. This reminds me of two lesbian-male gay jokes from the gay scene which play with this:

Q: How many gay guys does it take to screw in a light bulb?
A: It doesn't matter, they'll just turn the room into a dark room.
Q: And how many lesbians does it take to screw in a light bulb?
A: Seven. One will screw in the bulb, and the other six will make a workshop on that topic.

Q: What does a lesbian bring along on her second date?
A: Her moving truck.
Q: What does a gay guy bring along on his second date?
A: What second date?
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PixieBoy

I've never understood girls. So confusing, so bizarre. Girls are fluid, intangible, so many hidden meanings and things they mean but don't say and say but don't mean. To me, girls are very enigmatic and I would like to understand them better.
Guys are a LOT easier to understand, they are more straight-forward and usually say what they mean and don't use a lot of hidden meanings and such. Guys seem to use less body language, which is a godsend if you, like I do, have problems with the nonverbal stuff. Guys also tend to have more interests in common with mine and wear less perfume/cosmetics, which helps both with socializing and my allergy.

I've got AS, so maybe my perceptions are a bit... off.
...that fey-looking freak kid with too many books and too much bodily fat
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Arch

For a few years, I worked in industry, in female-only or female-dominated departments. It took me a long time to realize that when women talked about their problems to me, they weren't looking for advice on how to fix the problem. They just wanted to talk.

I always wanted to jump in and fix things--and I often had good, workable ideas that they hadn't tried--but that's not what they wanted from me at all. Frequently, they really wanted things to stay exactly the same. I would get frustrated and think, "Why the heck are you telling me this, then?"

The guys didn't always talk about their stuff, but when they did, they were often looking specifically for advice, options to weigh. They didn't always take the advice, but they usually didn't get irritated at me for offering it when they seemed to be asking for it. :P
"The hammer is my penis." --Captain Hammer

"When all you have is a hammer . . ." --Anonymous carpenter
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Cindy

I think this fits in.

The more I progress the more I seem to fall into a female stereotype. I'm not sure I'm happy with that; but I am feeling very happy and accepting of it. A few woman on the site know that we can talk for hours and be very positive and enquiring  and private and  relaxed in conversation. I could never do that when I was in rejection.  I doubt that I have had a 'male' to male talk about an issue in my life beyond who will win a cricket, football whatever match. And I didn't care.

I talk for ages with my female relatives, my male relatives have no problem with me but we don't seem to have anything to talk about. Before I 'came' out we had dinner with friends. He was really keen on talking about the torque and power of some BMW he was interested in. My wife and her friend were talking about a new lipstick product or some such thing. I was stuck. I wanted to talk and ask about the cosmetic, because it interested me.  I have problems knowing which end of a car goes forwards (a joke, the rear end goes forwards first :laugh:). He was getting quite upset by my lack of interest, and asking him if laser or elecrto where the best options didn't seem appropriate at the time.

This was a number of years ago BTW for people who know me, when my wife was OK, she laughed her self silly over my predicament, and I think may have been doing some subtle baiting :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:.

Cindy 
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milktea

cindyjames i had the opposite problem...i made a *big* impression out of a guy friend once when i started to get real excited talking about remote-controlling your home appliances and how to disassemble the steering wheel with only one screwdriver...
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
I have a post-op recovery blog now...yeah!
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Alainaluvsu

Quote from: milktea on September 01, 2010, 11:31:16 AM
cindyjames i had the opposite problem...i made a *big* impression out of a guy friend once when i started to get real excited talking about remote-controlling your home appliances and how to disassemble the steering wheel with only one screwdriver...

lol.. sadly enough i've had to do that last one once ... I was driving down the road when my blinker wouldn't do anything but indicate "left turn". Thank god it wasn't difficult!
To dream of the person you would like to be is to waste the person you are.



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augie

maby i am just unusual here. but i never really found either gender too hard to understand.
like how a gender likes to act and think and do and say is much more obvious to me than what any individual wants and likes.

i dont really think about individuals in just the moment here and now.  but like including all their years of history and likes and dislikes and ups and down. and how their hormones act on them. it shapes people. we are the person we are today, because of the person we was yesterday. and it is really hard to know everything about someone.

but like what any gender likes, its just much more obvious since you can generalise. like girls are softer and get bruised easier. and nobody likes to get hurt. so you are more risk averse then.  and boys like just go fast. so they like to run around 'more'. etc etc. 

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Fencesitter

I still wonder when the first androgyne will jump into this thread and ask: "Opposite gender? WTF is that?"

Oh, there is one thing I don't understand about guys: their huge interest in cars and how they can talk about that for hours. I'm not interested in cars. I even have a specific phobia there: when I have to drive a car, I almost get panic attacks, such as other people when you put spiders on them etc. (As a passenger, I have no fear.) Somehow I managed to get my driving license, however, but after each teaching hour in a car my t-shirt was soaked wet with sweat, I could almost wring it out. I haven't been driving much since, and not at all in the last 12 or 13 years.

But this frenzy for cars might also be a cultural thing. The Germans are crazy about cars, for the French it's just a vehicle which helps you get from point A to point B. Cars in France are often in a horrible condition, with buckles and dints everywhere and when the paint is scratched off somewhere, they tend to use a random paint they have at home to cover it so the car won't rust, may be brown on (original) white paint etc. For Germans, on the other hand, cars are a status symbol and they are usually very well taken care of. I grew up in a French household in Germany, and my dad and most other male relatives always considered cars to be just a vehicle, and my female relatives were the same.

There are other examples like this which depend on the culture. So if you grow up between two cultures (or subcultures), you find out that many of the so-called gendered interests, mentalities and behaviors are not gendered at all or their gendering depends on the culture. If you're transsexual, it either makes things more complicated to see in which gender box you fit it once you're in your self-discovery phase, or it makes things easier as you don't try to harshly to fit into the new gender box as you can pick things from two boxes depending on the topic even if you don't choose to do what's right for YOU. Or you have both effects at the same time. Hm, I might open up a new thread on that subject.
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milktea

Quote from: Fencesitter on September 02, 2010, 07:08:32 AM
Oh, there is one thing I don't understand about guys: their huge interest in cars and how they can talk about that for hours. I'm not interested in cars. I even have a specific phobia there: when I have to drive a car, I almost get panic attacks, such as

yes cars are interesting. it's more popular among guys but there is no lack of girl fans either. as fencesitter said it's not gendered. i always had a fascination for computers and machanics...must have to do with watching too much transformers in childhood...but anyways the point is i don't think i need to change or hide these interests.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
I have a post-op recovery blog now...yeah!
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ggina

awww, Fencesitter, you came just right ahead of me on this one :)

Though the title is about "sex", not "gender" so I just wanted to ask "What is the opposite sex?" And that is in fact a very valid question because we have our birth sex and we have our brain sex. And they're not the same :)

As for me, I've never had problems understanding either. Or maybe understanding is not the word. I'm empathic towards most people and if they really like something they talk about then I can usually get the point. I mean, everybody has the right to have something to feel enthusiastic about and the object of this feeling doesn't count as much as the feeling itself. Be it either a car's horsepower or a color of a fingernail :)

g
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Michelle.

Over time I became more and more uneasy around other "guys." the topics of conversation and general misogamy turned me off. Over time I came to realize that my male peers and I had more than just a casual disconnect regarding feminism. Given more time I began to really connect with my inner femininity.

Today the vast majority of my friends are other women. I have a few close male friends. I keep a close eye on some.....potential enemies. In the circles I run in there is foul amount of white trash.

I also have noticed a different kind of angst/rivalry between female relatives and myself.
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Bones

I never understood females...when I was growing up there would be things they did and I would stand there like...what? I got along better with the males in my life. Them I understood. But what's crazy is that because I am FtM I understand women now as I transition better than I did when I was growing up. Or is it that I am more aware of their hardships that they have to endure and do my best not to place them in that place? I'm not sure. But, like with me and my girlfriend, I try my best not to do Atypical male silly crap that would hurt her as much as possible. I understand how it feels and don't want her to feel that way...
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