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This MTF article makes life sound so depressing!

Started by Adabelle, November 05, 2010, 11:06:47 AM

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0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Sadie

As a nurse I can say that is just not true. Hormones can lead to some serious side effects, the possibility of blood clots in the legs and lungs are nothing to play around with.  Every drug has side effects and more people die every year from the side effects of prescription drugs than illegal ones.
Sadie
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K8

Quote
Of the millions of men who attempt the transition, less than 15% make it, and that 15% certainly does not have it easy... A repeated truth in the media and among the circles of professionals that care for us through the transition is starkly ugly... up to 50% of us end up committing suicide.

I didn't read the whole thing because this quote leapt out at me.  It is obviously BS.  Men don't transition to become women; women in male bodies and male social roles transition to be women.  The success rate is far higher, and the suicide rate far lower.  I think the rest of the article can likewise be dismissed as nonsense.

- Kate
Life is a pilgrimage.
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Asfsd4214

Quote from: Sadie on November 05, 2010, 06:56:13 PM
As a nurse I can say that is just not true. Hormones can lead to some serious side effects, the possibility of blood clots in the legs and lungs are nothing to play around with.  Every drug has side effects and more people die every year from the side effects of prescription drugs than illegal ones.

Which we all know is because not that many people take illegal drugs compared to virtually everyone who takes prescription drugs.

Yes there are an increased risk of clots. Most always in people of older age and less physical well being.

My doctor doesn't even bother testing me for blood clot risks because of my age.

And when compared to most other drugs, and I'm including a LOT of prescription only drugs, hormones are pretty benign.
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rejennyrated

Sorry but as far as I can see the article is mainly corrosive and elitist bunk!

Yes the basic point that you should not delude yourself about the limits of what can be achieved is valid, but this is laid on with a trowel.

Besides when you get to the end the authors true colours as an elitist trans are royally displayed for all to see.

Apparently she and her select "sisters" are real. They somehow escape the logic, that they lay down for everyone else, that dictates that total stealth is impossible because despite this they pass so well that they are no longer deluded but have instead have magically become real women. Anyone who lives by their rules and agrees with them can also be considered real. The rest will always be failures.

Well sorry but it simply doesn't work like that. Who really cares what these anonymous little nobodies think anyway. I certainly don't. It's Elitist rubbish. Please don't waste your time on it.
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long.897

QuoteAll men, and I mean all men, want to feel like a woman, and try it to some extent over the course of their lives. Most will crossdress, most will have anal sex with men, inanimate objects, and even women adorned with strap-ons.

Yeah, I don't think that "most" men have anal sex with other men.  She has to be pulling these "facts" out of her proverbial tuchus. 
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spacial

QuoteOf the millions of men who attempt the transition, less than 15% make it, and that 15% certainly does not have it easy... A repeated truth in the media and among the circles of professionals that care for us through the transition is starkly ugly... up to 50% of us end up committing suicide.

Quote from: K8 on November 05, 2010, 07:04:59 PM
I didn't read the whole thing because this quote leapt out at me.  It is obviously BS.  Men don't transition to become women; women in male bodies and male social roles transition to be women.  The success rate is far higher, and the suicide rate far lower.  I think the rest of the article can likewise be dismissed as nonsense.

- Kate

Yes Kate. That was another of the highly questionable statistics.

But I got the impression that this person just feels they made a mistake and is trying to rationalise it.

Some will regret it. Some will suffer unwanted effects from medications. Some will have bad, long trm effects from any surgery.

Most don't.

Like Sadie, I was also a nurse and have read many drug data sheets. it was part of my job to memorise information about any drugs any of my patients were using. The side effects of any drug are really quite frightening.

Here's the listed side effects of paracetamol for example: Rashes, Blood disorders, acute pancreatitis, liver damage, renal damage.

Here in th UK, all the data sheets for licienced drugs are contained in a book called the British National Formulary. It's published about every month or so.

These are just the extreme cases. It doesn't mean that, when you give little Johnny a paracetamol to for his imaginary stomach ache, he's going to get any of them.

Now to back Sadie up, the side effects from hormons are more common than for paracetamol. But provided you only use properly prescribed medicine, from reputable pharmacies and attend regular medical checkups, the chances of suffering any side effects are very small.
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Asfsd4214

Quote from: spacial on November 05, 2010, 08:25:03 PM
Yes Kate. That was another of the highly questionable statistics.

But I got the impression that this person just feels they made a mistake and is trying to rationalise it.

Some will regret it. Some will suffer unwanted effects from medications. Some will have bad, long trm effects from any surgery.

Most don't.

Like Sadie, I was also a nurse and have read many drug data sheets. it was part of my job to memorise information about any drugs any of my patients were using. The side effects of any drug are really quite frightening.

Here's the listed side effects of paracetamol for example: Rashes, Blood disorders, acute pancreatitis, liver damage, renal damage.

Here in th UK, all the data sheets for licienced drugs are contained in a book called the British National Formulary. It's published about every month or so.

These are just the extreme cases. It doesn't mean that, when you give little Johnny a paracetamol to for his imaginary stomach ache, he's going to get any of them.

Now to back Sadie up, the side effects from hormons are more common than for paracetamol. But provided you only use properly prescribed medicine, from reputable pharmacies and attend regular medical checkups, the chances of suffering any side effects are very small.

Paracetamol is a good example of how relatively safe hormones are. Paracetamol will really mess you up if you overdose on it, and an overdose on it is actually not that much, and it WILL cause serious harm NOW, not possibly years from now.
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Aidan_

One point I call the author out on.

Spironolactone is used to treat congestive heart failure. It's not hard on the heart. Hyperkalemia is hard on the heart, not Spiro.
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Rock_chick

That article is so full of obvious contradictions, it's stupid. It's not written particularly well either  :P

I am finding that as I continue through transition it is best to take everyone else's experiences with a pinch of salt, not because their wrong, but because they are someone else's experiences, not yours. I learnt very quickly that everyone is different and everyone approaches things in different ways and we all want different things. All you can do is take heart from the good stuff that happens to you and other, offer support when things are dark and stick on some Sex Pistols and offer a two fingered salute to anyone who tells you how you should live your life.

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Aidan_

Indeed the author seems to violate the intended message. She stresses "transitioning sucks" but then mentions, "but it could be different for some...SOME." Only then to follow up with, "It sucks princess, it sucks really bad."

I do like her analogy of the thoroughbred horse in a racetrack being compared to a closeted TG. Though I'm not sure it fits 100% since a lot of TGs do not even realize their ordeal until >40....
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Kairi

Wow... I was reading that very article when I was abroad recently and got through the whole of the first chapter and part of the second chapter before I got so distressed that I couldn't read on! I wanted to make a post about it then and there, but I had no internet connection (I downloaded the e-book webpage before I left) and then I kind of forgotten about it after I deleted it.

It seems like that the author is stating that unless you are on the verge of pointing a gun to your head, then don't transition. I felt it was a really extreme article that is best not read, it sure freaked the hell out of me at the time. We all have different degree of gender dysphoria and only you know in your heart what is the best course to take.

I think someone really ought to contact the author about the validity and purpose of the article; whether it's to help or to scare off potential TS about transition. I personally think the latter is more true!
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Lacey Lynne

@ Everybody:

That article quoted to start this thread makes its point.  From where I sit, there is a certain measure of truth to what it says.  However, one can say much the same thing about becoming an entrepreneur.  Think I'm nuts?  Try it and see ... especially if you fail at it a time or two.  You'll effectively loose everything a transsexual loses in transition. 

The average person in the street neither knows about nor cares much about becoming an entrepreneur.  Even many people in business are freelancers, solo acts, mom & pop business and actually have built themselves a job rather than a real business.  My point?  Real entrepreneurs often fail ... more than once or even twice ... until they learn how it's done and make it.  By that time, they've lost damned near everything there is to lose ... just like us.

Okay, consider the article quoted to start this thread as THE POINT.  Okay, fine.  Cool.

Now, please, consider these 2 below-listed websites as THE COUNTERPOINT.  Everyone of you on here should take the time to read these profiles of SUCCESSFUL transitions.  Read them all.  Thinking about transitioning?  Already transitioning?  Thinking about bagging it?  Before you bag it, take a look at what TRANSITION SUCCESS ... looks like, sounds like, feels like!  My very own doctor who oversees my HRT is profiled on one of these websites!  Still wanna bag it?  Keep reading.  As you do, in your mind's eye and in your soul, FEEL their success.  Sweet?  Ooohhh, YES!  You bet it is! 

Read on:

Amazing transsexual profile website Number One ... Lynn Conway's website:

http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TSsuccesses/TSsuccesses.html

Amazing transsexual profile website Number Two ... Karen Serenity's website:

http://www.karenserenity.com/OldSerenity/main.htm

Some of you will have seen these before, I'm sure.  Newbies, check 'em out.  These two websites steeled my determination to GO FOR IT.  Am I losing my figurative, if not literal, ass?  Yes!  Will it be worth it?  Yes!

Entrepreneurs who are true entrepreneurs often fail, more than once, and loose EVERYTHING we loose ... EVERYTHING!  Yet, they get out there and hustle and hustle and hustle ... until THEY MAKE IT!

Why?  It's worth it to them.  There are different pays-out and pays-off to each entrepreneur ... power ... control ... wealth ... freedom ... influence ... yada, yada, yada.  Think about it:

*  Who owns major-league sports teams?
*   Who owns the banks and insurance companys?
*   Who makes the rules?

The list goes on and on ... ENTREPRENEURS. 

The Point for Them:

It was worth losing their figurative assess a time or two or more to gain these things.

The Point for Us:

It's worth losing our figurative assess while transitioning to gain what we want.

I'm losing everything myself right now ... one by one ... and may end up in the street for a while ... no lie.  BUT!  I shall persevere. 

What's it worth to ya, honey?  What's it REALLY worth to ya?

It takes the gumption of a true entrepreneur to transition.  The rewards ARE worth it!

Just my own opinion, but I rest my case.  Each gal is welcome to disagree.  Onward, honies!

;)   Lacey Lynne
Believe.  Persist.  Arrive.    :D



Julie Vu (Princess Joules) Rocks!  "Hi, Sunshine Sparkle Faces!" she says!
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annette

hi everybody

the article looks very depressing and the truth is that it is a long and hard road to walk
But the inner pleace and happiness at the end of the road is amazing.
Reading the article it looks that there is a choice. You start transition or do not start it
Well, in my opinion there is no choice, when you feels like a transsexual you have to do it whatever the consequenses are.
and it is true, some people are losing friends, work and family but there are several people how have support from friends and family.
So, it's all very individual and when you are a transsexual there are only two options for transition, being unhappy for the rest of your life or commit suicide.
this does n't look a very good idea for me.

I wish everybody how wants to start transition a lot af wisdom and strenght

hugs annette
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lauren3332

{Quote}
Everything you knew and loved, were once comfortable with, were happy with. It takes it all.   

The point is, that we are not comfortable and that is why we transition.  We are not happy with it.  I assume she is only referring to material things.   However I would like to question what it is we actually lose?  Do we really lose family if they cannot accept who we are?  Another way of putting this is, would we really want to hangout with people that are actually shallow underneath it all?  So I guess in her eyes, it is better to live a supposed happy life of being ignorant to everyone's true natures than to actually see things as they really are. 

I would also disagree with the handicapped thing.  I am handicapped with CP, I would gladly trade my disability to be reborn with my knowledge of dysphoria at a young age.  That might sound crazy but at least I could do all the physical things anyone else can do, so I would eventually be able to get help with my emotional issue all on my own without having to rely on someone else to be a physical mediator.  I would rather be a TS than be blind or deaf.  You might be born unable to move your arms or legs or have none at all.  I take being a TS over that.  Other than feeling of being perceived as the wrong gender, we can live pretty normal lives.  As long as you know who you are, it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks.  I get the worries of passing, but don't be fooled by this author. 
Granted it does seem in these statements I have just made to downplay the turmoil that we TS's go through.  By no means am I trying to make our condition seem small.  I would rather lose all of my riches than lose something physical to where I cannot do anything for myself.  There is always other jobs.  True, it can lead to a setback in income and you cannot live as luxurious as you would like.  Sure, you might have to make new friends.  I ask again, would you rather be happy with people that discriminate and are prejudice who don't know anything about being different?   
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Britney_413

I actually did read all three chapters in entirety about two months ago. I found it here:

http://www.mtftransition.com/t-girl.htm

There is a lot of stereotyping and generalizations in the article but I do actually agree with the overall points the author is making. If you read it in entirety from beginning to end and especially the introducion/disclaimer then you can read it in its proper context. I don't agree with everything the author is stating and sure it is a depressing article.

The impression I got from the author is that this piece is designed as a stern warning to those considering an MTF transition to think very clearly about the choices they make and the possible consequences. It also appears to be designed to weed out the true TSs from those who fantasize about being TS. The author states in the disclaimer that by titling the article "So you wanna be a t-girl" was designed to lure those fantasizing about being TS to the site. It appears to generally not even be designed for TSs but to steer those away from transition who really shouldn't be transitioning in the first place. The author does state repeatedly throughout the article that "women are born, they are not created" referring to MTF TSs being "a woman born in a man's body."

The reason I agree with a lot of these views in the article is due to what I have seen in the bar scene time and time again. As ->-bleeped-<- is starting to get more accepted in society, a lot of people are now seeing being TS as some type of trendy thing. You have "->-bleeped-<- ->-bleeped-<-s" trying to hook up with TS women (pre-ops of course). A lot of people calling themselves TS are really just glorified crossdressers who want big boobs yet prefer to use their pensies to penetrate men. In fact most of the self-identified TSs I run into at bars love their penises, use them regularly, do not want hormones because of their effects on libido, and have no intention of SRS. Note that I'm not referring to TS people overall but specifically the ones I run into at the typical GLBT bars in my city which are hopefully NOT overall representative of TS people.

There is a lot of confusion about ->-bleeped-<- often among trans people themselves. You have the drag queen performers, crossdressers, self-identified TSs who really just want to dress like girls and have boobs yet still have sex as men, and then those who actually meet the definition of TS by medical standards and transition completely to the best of their ability. There is nothing wrong with any of these different types of TG people and I think the diversity is great and it is part of what makes us human. I don't think there should be any hostile reactions between one type of TG person trying to make the other type somehow less legitimate which often happens. Unfortunately, due to this diversity there is a serious amount of misinformation out there. Thus, you have a lot of people calling themselves TS and transitioning at least to some level when it might not be wise. Simply getting boobs and throwing on a dress doesn't make one TS. This bar crowd I mentioned generally has not transitioned according to the Standards of Care, many of which have gotten the boobs in Mexico or taken direct silicone injections from the street, taken some hormones from the street, and find employment in sex work, pornography, and drag shows for a very prolonged period of time (10 years or more) with no intention of sensible and normal employment or any type of respectable lifestyle.

So when someone comes along who is questioning their own gender identity it can be rather dangerous for them to run into these types of bar girls who will likely give them terrible advice. I think the article does serve its purpose of trying to weed out the non-TS types of TG people (crossdressers, those with fantasies/fetishes, etc.) from a transition and those who really are women trapped in mens' bodies who should transition. Simply put, the article isn't really written for us so it doesn't apply to us and is meant to scare off those who shouldn't transition in the first place.

Before anyone gets upset with me, I'm not saying anyone is or is not a TS and am leaving that up to the medical definitions. But I've been around the bar crowd at GLBT venues long enough to know that there is a ton of nonsense out there and sometimes generalizations are necessary as long as you are smart enough to know there are exceptions to the rule. I will personally warn others to be extremely wary of taking any type of advice from self-identified TS people who meet most or all of the following conditions:

1. Have no intention of SRS, enjoy their male organs, use them regularly, and do not want a drop in male libido

2. Self-medicate/self-surgery: hormones from the streets, silicone injections from the streets, self-castration, boobs and other ops. from other countries where the standards of care is not required

3. Revolve their life around being TS: perform at drag bars in drag shows, make sex work and porn a lifestyle and profession over the long term (not just as a temporary measure to put food on the table), and treat TS as something trendy and to show off, identify more as a TS than just as a woman which is what an MTF TS acutally is

4. Go for years on end with no sense of a normal lifestyle, no lawful employment or profession or intention of getting a job, instead lives a life expecting sugar daddies to take care of them, trouble with the law repeatedly, does not and has no plans/intentions of living a financially independent lifestyle with own income, own apartment/house, own things bought and not just given to them

Sad to say I run into far more "TS" people who fall into these categories (met mostly at bars) than just normal women who live normal lives who simply have a man's body they are in the process (or already have) of changing to make them complete. These bar people would do well at reading that article because they probably need to be woken up as they do not meet the definition of TS by medical standards and are giving out horrible advice to those who really are TS and need help. Sadly a lot of people don't even understand what TS even means. Again, they think that the only difference between a drag queen and a TS is that the latter has a boob job. I constantly get upset at these bar "TS" who constantly try to drill me on things like clothes and makeup as if that is what being trans is all about. Luckily I don't see much of this nonsense here at Susan's but it does occasionally slip through here too. Enough said.
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