MTFs and the Lesbian community

[long.897]

I'm only selectively out (to those who I know would have absolutely no way of telling the people that I don't want to know,) but in my limited experience, lesbians have been nothing but kind to me, even knowing that I still act out the male role.  Bisexual women on the other hand have often been very anti-trans, even when speaking on trans subjects without knowing my status.  Perhaps I'm being overly judgmental, but I tend to think that a number of them are heterogirls who identify as bisexual because men seem to think that that's attractive.  Not to imply that bisexuality doesn't exist; I just happen to think that a good deal of bisexual-identified girls at 18 will fall into gay or straight by the time that they're 30.  Not all, but some. 

[cynthialee]

I have found out over the years that most women mean selectivly bisexual when they say they are lesbian.
I married 2 women who were lesbian identified back when I played the man game. Granted I am a woman and always have been internaly but I wore the guise of a man for a long enough time to make it believeable. Not all lesbians are against a relationship with someone with a penis. It is a strike against you but it isnt a game ender.

[annette]

I'm a Tgirl and more attracted to women than men.
I've been many times in lesbian communities and always had a very good time with the other girls.
I was more some kind of a lipsticklesbian and I was dressed like a female, sometimes skirt, sometimes blue jeans, make up and a purse.
I've never told that I was a TG, it's not their bussiness, I was there for pleasure not for discussing transitionmatters.
i've always told the girls when it becomes intimate that I was a TG.
Never a problem to the girls, so yes, we can be popular in the lesbian community.

hugs all
annette

[Princess Katrina]

I'm a lesbian transwoman and I've had mostly no trouble among the lesbian community around where I live and at my university. Most of them know I'm trans, but still see me entirely as being another one of the girls who likes girls. My current gf is also a GG lesbian and is put off by what I still have between my legs, but that only puts her off in a purely sexual since, and I'm not really interested in using it for sex anyway, so it hasn't really affected us.

I have, however, encountered lesbian communities where there are many prevailing negative views of transwomen. There was a lesbian chatroom I frequented for a while where the topic of transwomen came up, and there was a very negative connotation to the whole discussion, and one girl in particular went on at great lengths about the evils of transwomen when I attempted to voice some positive things about transwomen and why some of the negative things they'd been saying weren't true (Note: I was not actually out as trans in this chat room, to them I was just another GG Lesbian).

Most of it, though, seems to stem from a lack of understanding and information on what it means to be trans and what the process of transition results in.

[fwagodess]

Well as with all things, some Lesbians are open to dating a mtf or ftm, some arn't. Really depends on the chemistry. The times I've gone to a glbt Event, dance, etc, I very welcomed in the lesbian circles.   

Beni

Good point.

Since I am an M2F, I'm still biologically straight and now living as a woman I identify as a lesbian. I have never been successful in converting a straight woman into a lesbian (technically).

I have been using a site called plentyoffish.com and posted two dating profiles (one as male for intimate encounters and another for the lesbian relationship.) I have contacted well over 4,000 potential women I really like and so far have had no luck in finding someone new.

I know this sounds embarrassing for me to admit. Though, it seems to be the easiest way for me because this has bothering me for the past 15 years.

[Ashley Allison]

I don't have experience, but obviously all people, and all lesbians, are different... But, I think you should google Dr. Christine McGinn, and see her story.  She is an infamous MTF surgeon, who herself is trans.  She entered into the lesbian scene, and came out with a great partner and two children (who are biologically her's and her partner, due to sperm banking).  Anyways, I hope she serves as some inspiration and proof that there is great love out there!

[lilacwoman]

can someone define a cis lesbian please?

[CaitJ]

can someone define a cis lesbian please?

Cis = non-trans
Lesbian = a woman who is attracted exclusively to women

Cis lesbian = a non-trans woman who is attracted exclusively to women.

[japple]

An insane number of my friends were lesbians before I came out and they are very very supportive.  Lesbians are the best.

[Mara]

Good point.

Since I am an M2F, I'm still biologically straight and now living as a woman I identify as a lesbian. I have never been successful in converting a straight woman into a lesbian (technically).

I have been using a site called plentyoffish.com and posted two dating profiles (one as male for intimate encounters and another for the lesbian relationship.) I have contacted well over 4,000 potential women I really like and so far have had no luck in finding someone new.

I know this sounds embarrassing for me to admit. Though, it seems to be the easiest way for me because this has bothering me for the past 15 years.

I'm a lesbian and have dated cisgender lesbians.  I've found that having a lot of knowledge of lesbian culture really helps.  And thinking of yourself as anything but a typical lesbian--especially as "biologically straight"--will tend to sabotage you pretty bad, so it's best to think "I'm a lesbian as much as anyone else" and act accordingly.

Still, online dating is kinda random, so good luck.

[tekla]

Depends on the bar and the customer base.  Just like some places you have to wear a coat and tie and other places wearing a tie makes you look like you really don't belong there at all.  A biker bar, be it a straight male biker bar, a dikes on bikes biker bar, or a gay biker bar are all biker bars and have a similar look and feel to them.  A skit and purse might not be as appropriate as leather and levies, but a lipstick lesbian bar, different story.

[fwagodess]

I'm a lesbian and have dated cisgender lesbians.  I've found that having a lot of knowledge of lesbian culture really helps.  And thinking of yourself as anything but a typical lesbian--especially as "biologically straight"--will tend to sabotage you pretty bad, so it's best to think "I'm a lesbian as much as anyone else" and act accordingly.

Still, online dating is kinda random, so good luck.

Over the five women I have been with for the past 18 years, I knew I was a lesbian when I was with my first girlfriend when I was a 10 year old boy dating an 11 year old girl. Since my first relationship, I knew I my sexual orientation would eventually become lesbian some 18 years later, but "Still Biologically Straight." I don't ever use the term "cisgender" but I use biological as a more preferred term.

Mara raises a good point, though.

[CaitJ]

I don't ever use the term "cisgender"

Why not?

[Mara]

Over the five women I have been with for the past 18 years, I knew I was a lesbian when I was with my first girlfriend when I was a 10 year old boy dating an 11 year old girl. Since my first relationship, I knew I my sexual orientation would eventually become lesbian some 18 years later, but "Still Biologically Straight." I don't ever use the term "cisgender" but I use biological as a more preferred term.

Mara raises a good point, though.

But, see, I'm a biological woman.  My hormonal levels are the same as any other woman, and I was born with the same neurological system as other women.  Biological sex is more complicated than "male or female."  That's a social construct that doesn't take into account transsexuality, chromosome arrangements other than XX or XY (which are more common than you might think), unusual genitals, and the like.

The reason people use cisgender, instead of biological or natal or genetic or "gg" ("genetic girl," originally "genuine girl") or plain "normal," is because cisgender acknowledges our identities and is probably more scientifically accurate.  (Most studies conclude that we're born like this, that our brains are identical to those of cisgender people of our identified gender rather than assigned gender, and that transsexuality may have a genetic component, and that it is certainly normal.)

If you want to call yourself biologically male, that's your right.  I'm just explaining why I don't, and why I refuse to let others call me that.

[fwagodess]

Vexing also raises a good point. As for one transwoman in Marion, Indiana. I am pretty much well known and have had more people in the area grudgingly accept the changes I have made. Most of them are people I went to school with.

But, see, I'm a biological woman.  My hormonal levels are the same as any other woman, and I was born with the same neurological system as other women.  Biological sex is more complicated than "male or female."  That's a social construct that doesn't take into account transsexuality, chromosome arrangements other than XX or XY (which are more common than you might think), unusual genitals, and the like.

The reason people use cisgender, instead of biological or natal or genetic or "gg" ("genetic girl," originally "genuine girl") or plain "normal," is because cisgender acknowledges our identities and is probably more scientifically accurate.  (Most studies conclude that we're born like this, that our brains are identical to those of cisgender people of our identified gender rather than assigned gender, and that transsexuality may have a genetic component, and that it is certainly normal.)

If you want to call yourself biologically male, that's your right.  I'm just explaining why I don't, and why I refuse to let others call me that.

My name, gender identity, and sexual orientation may have changed from a decade ago, but it has not changed the commitment to everything else. If that is not the definition of one M2F in Marion, Indiana - I don't know what is.

I have posted the original post on my web site announcing the gender change.

[CaitJ]

But, see, I'm a biological woman.

As am I.
It's not like I'm an inorganic/non-biological woman, is it? I'm just as biological an organism as the next woman.

[Double_Rainbow]

Aeverine Zinn, the article you posted, could you clarify this statement:

"As a male, I am not attracting the young female demographics, and I am not attracting the new generation, the new generation of socialism."

I'm a little confused...are you wanting to attract younger females via your transition?  Sorry, my reading comprehension isn't up to par. 

[tiger]

I recently started to venture in to the lesbian community. I've been received positively. I've been up front with them, because I'm still pre-op and I don't want to have to explain that down the road if we do get sexually involved. I spend most of my life hiding who I was I'm not going to hide now. I don't want to be faulted that I wasn't honest.

That being said. To the average person who i'm not ever going to be intimate with it isn't any of their business. I don't hide it, but i also don't volunteer it.

[fwagodess]

Aeverine Zinn, the article you posted, could you clarify this statement:

I'm a little confused...are you wanting to attract younger females via your transition?  Sorry, my reading comprehension isn't up to par.

I usually tend to attract females usually in their late 20's to early 30's (now that I am 28 I still attract the 25-40 year old women as of 1/4/2011). There is one woman during my senior year of high school I went to my high school prom (aka Mississinewa 500) with and had no choice to tell my mother about my prom date back then. I told her "Brittani's the same age as I am--18-- and is a sophomore." (I knew she was 15 at the time.)

Since my transition began I have been attracting the women 18-34 demographic (in terms of Nielsen ratings), and that is pretty sweet (if I remember correctly).

[GinaDouglas]

The lesbians who like us really like us alot, but the ones who hate us have a redhot hatred of us that scares the ->-bleeped-<- out of me.

My community is not representative.  I don't know how valuable it is to generalize out of this community to broader application.

That being said, the situation here is that whether to accept transwomen as women is an individual decision, not a community one.  Since the law clearly recognizes transwomen as female, those who disagree build up resentment.  This is across the board.  Doesn't matter gay or straight, male or female - there is a segment of the population that hates transwomen, builds up resentment, and becomes like a land-mine ready to go off in any unexpected circumstance.

If you consider that to be like a control group, it's been my experience that it is less likely a given person is a landmine if she is a lesbian than any other group.

But, when it comes to whether transwomen are in many lesbians' dating pools - that's still mostly NO WAY!