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Horrible Psychiatrist Experience

Started by JessicaR, September 08, 2010, 10:13:40 PM

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JessicaR

Ugh..

  I was referred to my (former) psych by my therapist; She said that  he had treated Transsexual patients before. I should have walked away after the first appointment when he pointed out everything in my experience that he perceived as "more of a guy thing." While talking about my substance abuse I said that I liked beer... he said that I should like sweeter drinks; I talked about my persistent suicidal thoughts and he stated that, "Women generally choose less lethal means of killing themselves."
  I hoped that we would eventually develop a relationship and discuss my desire for surgery... He seemed to think that my being Transsexual had nothing to do with my depression. He also seemed unnecessarily concerned with my breast development... I don't see how whether I was wearing a bra or not had anything to do with my treatment, but he asked. He gave me the creeps.
  I didn't see him for awhile; I attended an outpatient treatment program for depression and anxiety a few months ago. Thanks to some very caring staff and a superlative treatment program, I now feel much more equipped to deal with life in general. I'm off meds and feel better than I have in years! I made an appointment with the very peculiar Dr. Kisch to ask if he would compose the very short letter that would allow me to obtain a passport with an "F" instead of an "M." He stated, "I balk at your request." He suggested that I was abusing his services. He stated that, even though I reported feeling well, I should be on medication. He was pompous, condescending and generally didn't seem to give a damn about the state of my well being.... only that I was apparently asking for something so unreasonable.... and it violated his supreme authority as a doctor.  I fired him.
  Thankfully, my therapist has given her endorsement and is currently composing my authorization letter for surgery... I'll have the "F"  .... it'll just have to wait a little longer.  :)
   This was my fourth psychiatrist.... They were all freaking creepy! I'm left with the feeling that their training somehow leaves them incapable of compassion. The one before refused to acknowledge my Transsexuality and perceived it as a lifestyle choice.  I'm DONE with psychiatry! I'm angry, dissapointed and frustrated..

..........Just had to vent


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Muffin

I've heard so many people discuss how their psychiatrists have a set view of how a woman should be. It's like a natal female tomboy can get away with being androgynous yet we have to take it to the extreme to what? Over compensate? ppfftt. I pass the best when I go tomboy mode, go figure.
I have a psychiatrist appointment in four hours to discuss my srs referral. But I don't know I've only been twice before and he seemed pretty cool.. though he hassled me about my work or lack of. hhmmm that's right only TS suffer from employment issues.. and therefore I fail RLT because of that... hhmmm yeah right. Actually I'm confident he won't hold it against me, though he could.
There are so many double standards attached to their hoops we must jump through. You try to be honest yet they use it against you... it makes you wonder if one should just feed them the answers they want to hear :S
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Cruelladeville

Well scripted ma love...

And sorry that you had to go through all that BS JessicaR....

I dumped a UK GP doctor for his weird interest in my physicality.... and as a policy now since I only have female doc's.....

My current one's called Dr Kate Dick.....dontchajustluvit!

Anyways I did at least three trick cyclists, most of whom I couldn't click with.... and found that the key Kafkaesque process seemed more about 55 mins ad infinitum....at £95 (great business plan ...eh?)...until meeting with and sticking with and working for the London Institute...

Under the supervision of and as a patient of the much wrongly maligned (Russell Reid).... what a gem of a man!

Try to fret not too much.... living the 'condition' in one sense is actually what its all about....

Hence action > than words....

Where as talking constant b#ll#cks < less than physical manifestation...

This is why hormones as a diagnostic tool still has validity in my view....but don't let the buggers grind you down...dust yerself off and tomorrows always another day...(and some as you well know be wonderful!)
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Asfsd4214

Quote from: Muffin on September 08, 2010, 10:33:57 PM
I've heard so many people discuss how their psychiatrists have a set view of how a woman should be. It's like a natal female tomboy can get away with being androgynous yet we have to take it to the extreme to what? Over compensate? ppfftt. I pass the best when I go tomboy mode, go figure.
I have a psychiatrist appointment in four hours to discuss my srs referral. But I don't know I've only been twice before and he seemed pretty cool.. though he hassled me about my work or lack of. hhmmm that's right only TS suffer from employment issues.. and therefore I fail RLT because of that... hhmmm yeah right. Actually I'm confident he won't hold it against me, though he could.
There are so many double standards attached to their hoops we must jump through. You try to be honest yet they use it against you... it makes you wonder if one should just feed them the answers they want to hear :S

I entirely agree, I have encountered exactly that with all of the 3 psychiatrists I have seen. And you know what, I don't think they really have any good understanding of us at all. They don't see us as women with a problem, they see us as men with a problem. For which they believe they understand the solution far better than us.

They have it in their head that they know everything because they went to a school, and we know nothing despite it being our whole lives and unlike them, don't get to ever go home at the end of the day and take a break from.

I wish I had good things to say about psychiatrists, but all I've encountered from them is suspicion, mistrust, disrespect, power trips, ignorance, and deceptiveness.
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lilacwoman

I've had the idiot shrinks and heard all their crap too...and had some good ones who know what makes TS tick.
but the only one I see now is a lovely Asian guy who knows what is needed and is intent on helping me get it.
my lawyers are working up to big lawsuit against the one who ignored the HBSoC and set my transition back three years.

On the other hand I do agree with those shrinks who say a MtF should show a lot of femaleness which is basically doing RLE? 
Creating manginas in countries with state funded NHS is not good policy. 
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rejennyrated

Quote from: Cruelladeville on September 08, 2010, 10:38:08 PM
Under the supervision of and as a patient of the much wrongly maligned (Russell Reid).... what a gem of a man!
And a very interesting drinking buddy and holiday companion too. I think it's now pretty much of an open secret that he is probably my second best friend in the world after Alison. (make of which what you will ;)) Over the years that Alison and I have been going out with him as a three, and oft times a foursome he has given us some really fascinating insights into the way that some of the medical fraternity see us.

The thing is since the days of John Randall and Don Montgomery there have always been those who think that if they could just hit on the right formula we could be cured without the need for surgery.

With Randall it was being a bit of a bully and generally a member of the awkward squad. With Don Montgomery (who Alison saw after Ashley Robin retired halfway through her treatment) it was a case of dangling the promise of action always just a few months away whilst never actually delivering. Thankfully for her, she saw though him and told him straight that unless he honored Ashley Robin's already written referral she wasn't going to waste anymore time seeing him! Two months later he suddenly went on holiday and she was on the operating table.

The thing is you have to play the shrinks at their own game. While they are assessing you, you need to be similarly weighing them up and not be too shy in drawing a line in the sand if they don't seem to be taking you where you need to go.

That's also one reason why I simply don't use our NHS and if I had my way I would radically restructure it so that the patient controlled their own health budget. When you control your own health funding (which of course as a private patient you do) then it is clear that you are the master and the doctor is the servant.

That's what you need to get to with the shrinks. You have to somehow get to the point where you, and not they, control the game. Not easy I know, but it can be done.
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Nigella

Hi there,

Sorry to hear of your experience, but keep focused. I must say though that I have had brilliant discussion and outcome with my psychiatrists, but then I am mad, lol. Na, not really. The only problem area I've had is the GID clinic and their crap administration and secretarial skills. I nearly lost out on funding because they had put the wrong date for my RLT to the PCT for funding and was refused first time. I was fuming with them and the PCT because it contradicted my second opinion psychiatric report which had the correct RLT dates.

Glad you are progressing even though perhaps at a slower pace than you would want, but believe me it feels a slow process at the start but at the end of the process its like hyperspace speed.

Stardust   
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Cindy

Jenny and others are of course totally correct.

But medical fields specialize,  I could make many medical jokes at this point but I wont. Psychiatrists are the same. There are two in Adelaide who are specialized in GID, you can get referred  to any one you wish but the others may not have an interest or an understanding of GID. They will treat you as a patient with unknown pathology.  I heard of one who had his, hopefully first and last MtF,  prescribe, "Take up manly pursuits, running and footy, if you have these fantasies have a cold shower to clear the mind" . He was only recently registered (past five years). So the level of understanding you obtain can be very variable.   

I also agree with lilacwomen, there are guidelines, but some Psych's have never heard of them, because it isn't an area of interest to them.

Cindy

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Muffin

Funny you mention poor secretarial skills. I just got back from my meeting (which was a success) and my old name was still in their database. o_0
So now I'll have to go back and get them to reprint out my receipt so I an claim medicare back in my name, not a name that doesn't appear on my card. Same thing happened with my endo.. you'd think with so many people coming through that change their names that they'd adapt. :S
I saw two while I was in the waiting room that couldn't find a file because one of them had changed the folder view and moved it out of alphabetical order..it took them ages to figure it out ...der. lol. Ok now I'm officially ranting. *cans it*. :P
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spacial

In my time in Susans' I've read a number of people talking about the progress they are making. For some, it seem to be almost plain sailing, for other a rather more bumpy ride. I wonder how many have simply been thrown out at the first enquiry.

I recall, in the early 80s, think it was 1981, there was a program on the TV documenting the transision of one person. She had the complete support of her family, especially her sisters and her employer. That, basically, was the program.

To cut a long story short, she moved and her new Dr refused to prescribe any medications. This young woman then appeared on a discussion program presented by a woman called Dr Mirium Stoppard, who told her, (literally), Drs got you into this mess, they should see it through.

In my own case, I blotted my copy book when I was 16, by having the temerity to make a complaint. I recall, about 16 years later, while I was a nurse, I went to see my then GP for something. He went away to check my casenotes for something. When he came back his personality had completely changed. I went from being his friend to garbage that needed to leave.

I'm sure most of the others here would never be as arrogant as I was to dare to question or even suggest that a Dr could do any wrong.

We are living with the consequences of creating a profession with ecclesiastical mystique. Even criticising is socially unacceptable. Someone I know, a few years ago, wrote a strongly worded letter, complaining about a Dr.. A daylater, two young policemen ambushed that person in the street, told them publically, they were assessing them under the mental health act, (which was nothing more than a stupid threat), then cautioned them.

So making a complaint can now have you arrested.

I have heard that there are many who feel very agreaved by the way they have been treated. Relatives being killed, children being sexually assaulted, inappropriate or incompetant treatment.

There are no outlets or facilities to make complaints. Dissatisfied patients are irrational or trouble makers seeking profit. In the late 70s, there was a small movement demanding that a complaints process be established. The response was that Drs would be spending all their time dealing with complaints!!!!!

My fear is that, eventually, the angry people are going to start contacting each other. In the case of the UK for example, if that is only 1% of the population, that amounts to 700,000. There are going to be a lot of Drs getting hurt.

I have to say, I will never be violent with anyone. But if I saw such a group, I wouldn't feel inclined to defend any Dr. They've brought this on themselves. The innocent Drs are equally guilty by their refusal to attack the guilty.

In the UK, if you even mention the name Dr Shipman in the presence of any Drs you are likely to have serious problems.

I'm really pleased for those here who have been treated positively and respectfully by these public servants. But to be honest, it's just luck.
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glendagladwitch

Quote from: lilacwoman on September 09, 2010, 03:14:37 AM
I do agree with those shrinks who say a MtF should show a lot of femaleness which is basically doing RLE? 
Creating manginas in countries with state funded NHS is not good policy.

If an MTF person plans to live as a butch lesbian, then her RLE should involve living like that, not adhering to some artificail female stereotypes.  And I hope you are not advocating withholding surgery from such a person on the basis that she will be a "Mangina."  Please tell me that's not what you meant.
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rejennyrated

Quote from: spacial on September 09, 2010, 05:28:33 AM
In my time in Susans' I've read a number of people talking about the progress they are making. For some, it seem to be almost plain sailing, for other a rather more bumpy ride. I wonder how many have simply been thrown out at the first enquiry.

I recall, in the early 80s, think it was 1981, there was a program on the TV documenting the transision of one person. She had the complete support of her family, especially her sisters and her employer. That, basically, was the program.
That was I think George into Julia made by my very good friend David Pearson, with whom I have worked at the BBC.
Quote from: spacial on September 09, 2010, 05:28:33 AM
To cut a long story short, she moved and her new Dr refused to prescribe any medications. This young woman then appeared on a discussion program presented by a woman called Dr Mirium Stoppard, who told her, (literally), Drs got you into this mess, they should see it through.
yeah John Randall could be like that. I was under him too in 1976 - it wasn't a happy time for either of us.
Quote from: spacial on September 09, 2010, 05:28:33 AM
In my own case, I blotted my copy book when I was 16, by having the temerity to make a complaint. I recall, about 16 years later, while I was a nurse, I went to see my then GP for something. He went away to check my casenotes for something. When he came back his personality had completely changed. I went from being his friend to garbage that needed to leave.

I'm sure most of the others here would never be as arrogant as I was to dare to question or even suggest that a Dr could do any wrong.

We are living with the consequences of creating a profession with ecclesiastical mystique. Even criticising is socially unacceptable. Someone I know, a few years ago, wrote a strongly worded letter, complaining about a Dr.. A daylater, two young policemen ambushed that person in the street, told them publically, they were assessing them under the mental health act, (which was nothing more than a stupid threat), then cautioned them.

So making a complaint can now have you arrested.

I have heard that there are many who feel very agreaved by the way they have been treated. Relatives being killed, children being sexually assaulted, inappropriate or incompetant treatment.

There are no outlets or facilities to make complaints. Dissatisfied patients are irrational or trouble makers seeking profit. In the late 70s, there was a small movement demanding that a complaints process be established. The response was that Drs would be spending all their time dealing with complaints!!!!!

My fear is that, eventually, the angry people are going to start contacting each other. In the case of the UK for example, if that is only 1% of the population, that amounts to 700,000. There are going to be a lot of Drs getting hurt.

I have to say, I will never be violent with anyone. But if I saw such a group, I wouldn't feel inclined to defend any Dr. They've brought this on themselves. The innocent Drs are equally guilty by their refusal to attack the guilty.

In the UK, if you even mention the name Dr Shipman in the presence of any Drs you are likely to have serious problems.

I'm really pleased for those here who have been treated positively and respectfully by these public servants. But to be honest, it's just luck.
It is indeed - but also people have to accept that with something like this it is so far outside the experience of most people that you do have to take a degree of personal responsibility for your own choices.

I am implacably opposed to those few who have surgery, and then, as happened to my own dear friend Russell, try to sue the shrink for failing to stop them. The trouble is for every trans patient who is damaged by a doctor who wrongly allows them to progress there are another ten of us who are equally damaged by doctors who try to protect us from ourselves, so sometimes I do feel sorry for the poor doctors who, in the absence of a proper and reliable diagnostic test are in a bit of a no win situation with us.

So yes I agree there needs to be more openness to questioning on the part of the medics, but also it would help a lot if we the patients, were to accept that Doctors are not gods. They are not infallible, and so sometimes we have to be prepared to take responsibility ourselves and relieve them of the burden of making that judgement call.
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Julie Marie

I'm still shocked at how many incompetent therapists there are out there.  My dad hated "shrinks".  He said they all have mental problems and that leads them to study psychiatry to find out what's wrong with them.  They eventually make that their profession because they are forever working on their problems.  Instead of finding the source of their problems, they project their problems on their patients, who end up more messed up than when they came in.

I never bought my dad's perspective but, when I read about a lousy therapist, there are times I wonder if my dad may have been right about at least some of them.
When you judge others, you do not define them, you define yourself.
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Muffin

lols you pretty much just described this film...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shrink (film)
It's really good I watched it with my parents one night a few months back. They didn't really dig it but I loved it :P
I also love the HBO series "In Treatment". *shrugs*.
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kelly_aus

Quote from: rejennyrated on September 09, 2010, 08:08:05 AM
So yes I agree there needs to be more openness to questioning on the part of the medics, but also it would help a lot if we the patients, were to accept that Doctors are not gods. They are not infallible, and so sometimes we have to be prepared to take responsibility ourselves and relieve them of the burden of making that judgement call.

Bingo! Doctors are not gods, nor does medical science have all the answers. Anyone who thinks differently is deluded. I also strongly believe that many here have some interesting ideas as to who and what a psychiatrist is.. There also seems to be a little confusion as to what a "therapist" is, it could be a psychiatrist, or it could be a psychologist, or simply someone "trained" in "counselling". I recently saw one US member stating that their psychiatrist was underqualified, whilst saying that the psychiatrist had an MD and a PhD..  :o They don't come much better qualified than that.. 

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rejennyrated

Quote from: Julie Marie on September 09, 2010, 08:18:31 AM
I'm still shocked at how many incompetent therapists there are out there.  My dad hated "shrinks".  He said they all have mental problems and that leads them to study psychiatry to find out what's wrong with them.  They eventually make that their profession because they are forever working on their problems.  Instead of finding the source of their problems, they project their problems on their patients, who end up more messed up than when they came in.

I never bought my dad's perspective but, when I read about a lousy therapist, there are times I wonder if my dad may have been right about at least some of them.

I think he was. I know several shrinks on a personal friendship basis and all of them would agree with his analysis. Indeed one of them once told me that exact same thing. His exact words were "to be a good psychiatrist one needs first to be a little crazy oneself." John Randall was famously reputed to have been a ->-bleeped-<-.

But doctors are only human. Alison and I had a close personal friendship with John Money. Now he is another one who, through one BIG and very high profile mistake, got vilified and crucified. I'm not defending his actions. Yes his theory and practice was wrong. In his later life, and in private, he was the first to admit it. He was also underneath it all a very sweet man with problems of his own with which he battled daily. He was haunted by the mistake he had made and I felt very sorry for him, even when he did once half seriously propose marriage to Alison! :o So I suppose what I think is that sometimes we need to have compassion for psychiatrists because they often have their problems too.

Alison getting up close and personal with John Money.
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pebbles

I had a bad GP experience 3 years ago this is actually digging up some bad upsetting memories. I got pretty close to transitioning then but fell short because a doctor tripped me at the first hurdle... I finally got the courage to tell someone and then I got shot down because of my nervousness at the time. I mentioned it here briefly when it happened but was too torn up at the time to elaborate much.

Quote from: 'Pebbles'
February 11, 2008, 10:11:06 pm'
It is as I thought... So I went to see my GP as it's a prerequisite here in the UK, I told him what I thought, Specifically about GID bear in mind I've only seen this man once before and that was so he could give me a meningitis vaccination.

Now remeber this guy has seen my arm. When he gave me said vaccination he also saw my arm which is webbed with scar formation as I've been self harming (nearly completely unknown) since I was 13. (I'm almost 21 now)

Anyways yeah he was unwilling to write a referral to a GID specialist he however "Advised" that I talk to a councilor about depression and I ought to put this out of my mind finding a better hobby.

I honestly have always had low expectations. But this kinda confirmed what I knew... The only way I can possibly walk this path is if I have every ounce of strength at my disposal because the very system is designed to tire me out put me on trial and repel me.

I think I know what your likely to say... Strengthen up and try again right new doctor and such?
Well I cannot. Not now when I'm in bits.

I was downtrodden at the time... but today I'm furious in retrospect at my situation, it took nearly everything I had to say something to him then just to get dismissed out of hand.
So yeah needless to say I have differing views from most of you when it comes to the opinion of "medical professionals" and self-medication for this reason.
I'm unlikely to forgive anytime soon for the two extra years of hell and they were some of the worst.
  •  

lilacwoman

Quote from: glendagladwitch on September 09, 2010, 08:01:46 AM
If an MTF person plans to live as a butch lesbian, then her RLE should involve living like that, not adhering to some artificail female stereotypes.  And I hope you are not advocating withholding surgery from such a person on the basis that she will be a "Mangina."  Please tell me that's not what you meant.

manginas aren't she's they are he's
  •  

spacial

Quote from: kelly_aus on September 09, 2010, 08:34:43 AM
Bingo! Doctors are not gods, nor does medical science have all the answers.

I understand the points made, both by yourself and rejennyrated.

My post was a little off topic but I made it because I think it illustrates the point. That while Drs continue to surround themselves with a wall of inscrutablity, both for themselves and each other, they are putting themselves at risk.

The issue with jenny's friend, Russell, is not relevant to the situation. It is the numerous cases of quite blaitent incompetance and grossly unprofessional behaviour that are.

Ignorance may appear to be acceptable. In reality it is inexcusable. You ask me to service your car. Your brakes fail. I am not a mechanic and know nothing about brakes. I am ignorant.

But the seriousness of the current situation is more clearly demonstrated by other examples I gave, sexual assault, even of children, killing of patients, inappropriate drug therapy.

The young transgendered woman, who was refused the necessary medicines in the early 80, could suffer serious consequences. The humiliation of this woman on the TV, by Dr Mirium Stoppard was inexcusable. That she had previously featured in a separate doumentary is irrelevant.

What this demonstrates and what I am suggesting, is that we must be very careful with these people. They have the facilities, skills and resources to deliver benefits to many. But the reality is they are a profession driven by egos.

Most, having failed to make the grade to be surgeons are especially ego driven.

To these people is granted the authority to detain any of us, with no evidence. To alter our body chemistry and even destroy parts of our brains.

This profession is playing a dangerous game. It will, almost certainly, blow up in many of their faces. But in the immediate term, we need to tread very carefully.
  •  

Tippe

Quote from: rejennyrated on September 09, 2010, 03:43:38 AM
The thing is since the days of John Randall and Don Montgomery there have always been those who think that if they could just hit on the right formula we could be cured without the need for surgery.
...
With Don Montgomery (who Alison saw after Ashley Robin retired halfway through her treatment) it was a case of dangling the promise of action always just a few months away whilst never actually delivering.

That's what they do in Denmark. They have told me they are much inspired by English doctors too. Hmm, know I know who!
Since only one clinic is allowed to threat transsexuals here people can't just go somewhere else. Alot of people have given up because they weren't supported even after years, and years of observation. One published case took 25 years before her surgery was carried out and another took 18. They refuse to tell the politicians how many years an average evaluation is, but it's definately way longer than the two years reguired by our law.

Of course they never made any research as to how the drop-outs manage life, but I doubt any one actually quit living as transgendered after a rejection. When they don't support or maybe even reject transformation - sometimes on grounds of poor social functioning - they are not making people quit their transformations, but rather they take away the support from those people who would need it the most!


Tippe
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