Are We Making Fools Of The "Experts"?

[cindianna_jones]

Regarding Transsexualism - is this something that we (TS and non-TS alike) can never truly fully understand?  In other words is this a moot exercise to try and understand transsexualism?

Oh, I think that it is within the realm of understanding.  As a society, we need to apply some resources to the problem, and I think it's possible to resolve.  But until we are interested in doing that as a society, there seem to be other problems that seem more important and require more immediate attention..... like flushing money away for external conflict.  Even if it were not for that, there are other more pressing problems to work on, I believe.  For the time being, we have a solution that pretty much works for us.  Is it ideal?  No.  But, it pretty much works.

Cindi

[bananaslug]

Regarding Transsexualism - is this something that we (TS and non-TS alike) can never truly fully understand?  In other words is this a moot exercise to try and understand transsexualism?

Oh, I think that it is within the realm of understanding.  As a society, we need to apply some resources to the problem, and I think it's possible to resolve.  But until we are interested in doing that as a society, there seem to be other problems that seem more important and require more immediate attention..... like flushing money away for external conflict.  Even if it were not for that, there are other more pressing problems to work on, I believe.  For the time being, we have a solution that pretty much works for us.  Is it ideal?  No.  But, it pretty much works.

Cindi

I can get on board with that.  Society is still very much shaking off the legacy of a community divided by the sexes and gender (not to mention race, religion, sexual-orientation etc. etc.) Much progress has been made, I believe there is much still to come.

[Julie Marie]

As for putting something over on the pros... I ask this question... In which direction flows the money?



Cindi

Yeah Cindi, I have thought about that too.  But if transsexualism were dropped from the DSM and considered a physical condition that requires medical intervention, I'm sure we would still have to go through psychoanalysis, although not a lifetime of it.  And if insurance covered any of the surgeries, more TSs could have it so the medical community would benefit.  But then I suppose the insurance companies would fight that.

Julie

[cindianna_jones]

Yeah Cindi, I have thought about that too.  But if transsexualism were dropped from the DSM and considered a physical condition that requires medical intervention, I'm sure we would still have to go through psychoanalysis, although not a lifetime of it.  And if insurance covered any of the surgeries, more TSs could have it so the medical community would benefit.  But then I suppose the insurance companies would fight that.

Julie

I truly feel for those who do get stuck in a lifetime of therapy.  There are a lot of external pressures weighed upon us for what we are.  And the therapy helps us deal with that load of garbage.  Once we can bag that up and dispose of it, there shouldn't be much more therapy reaquired....  Hmmm... sounds like an interesting poll is coming up.

Cindi

Edit: Moving Cindi's reply outside Julie's quote... Karen

[Julie Marie]

For now, GID as outlined in the DSM IV serves a purpose.  I'm using it to keep some, shall we say, 'forces' at bay.  Because my 'condition' is defined as medical not moral, I can transition at work unmolested by a very few who would throw the 'good book' at me for being an immoral, demon-infested chooser of an evil lifestyle.  Instead, thanks to the DSM IV and my 'diagnosis' of GID, and the fact that this diagnosis legally absolves me of moral wrongdoing, these few people are held in check from 'doing their moral duty' to 'balance society's moral books'.  Of course, they are watching me like a hawk, waiting to play the game, "Now I Got You You Son-Of-a-B****!" ('NIGYSOB', in Transactional Analysis-speak.)

Is it an illness?  Really, no.  Is it a lifestyle choice?  That has been discussed in this forum, and I have (finally) chosen to exit the burning building, even though society was telling me I was born in that building and 'had' to stay there.

Society says you don't hit girls, people with glasses, cripples, retards, and others with something 'disabling'.  GID being labeled an illness DOES help protect us from some of the excesses of society, even if it does ruffle the feathers of a portion of our community.

Karen

Karen, I already had responded to your post but I must have messed up since I don't see it here.  Anyway...

If transsexualism was dropped from the DSM, and instead considered a physical condition that requires medical intervention, then not only would the general public no longer have something to point to to prove this condition is all in our head but we may receive financial support with the medical intervention we need.  After all, it's widely treated physically, not mentally so why list it as a mental disorder?  We may have to go through therapy to prove we are transsexual but once the diagnosis is made our bodies are treated.  Our 'mental' problems then subside.  

If this were to happen I feel it would only be a matter of time before certain necessary surgeries would be covered by insurance.  As far as protection from discrimination, gays and lesbians already enjoy that in many areas and homosexuality is no longer listed in the DSM.  So I don't think you would lose any of the benefits you now receive and, possibly, you may end with more.

In the world I grew up in I heard over and over comments about people who were considered 'mental'.  The image I had was of someone you don't want to associate with, someone you want to avoid at all costs because you never know when they will flip out on you.  A lot of that stigma still exists today.  If transsexualism is listed in the DSM as a mental disorder people will be more likely to treat us as being 'mental'.  And the negative stigma will persist.  How many of us, when we announce we are transitioning, have heard, "Are you nuts?" or some other comment referring to our sanity?

Being transgender is socially unacceptable.  That's it, nothing more.  Other societies have existed where being TG was seen as a gift.  Native Americans revered transgender members of their tribe.  The only exception is the warring tribes like the Sioux, Comanche and Apache.  (I guess that tells you something.)  The settlers came to this country and changed that.  No reason except that is what they believed.  The problem isn't the person, the problem is the society.  Exchange conformity, intolerance and prejudice with individuality, tolerance and acceptance and we will find ourselves in a much better world, and we wouldn't be having this discussion.

The mental health professionals need to realize this is not a mental disorder.  I will never say I have GID because the "D" stands for disorder, a menal disorder.  My mind is fine.  I have been through therapy, twice, and both therapists will tell you I have no mental disorders.  My family and friends will agree.  I think most of us would say the same thing.  So if the mental health professionals feel we are sane, reasonable people, then why keep transsexualism listed as a mental disorder?  My only problem was and is I live in an intolerant society ignorant about what transsexualism really is.  

It's time for a change.

Julie

[cindianna_jones]

Julie, I know a few folks like you who don't really need the therapy.  I don't think that I did.  Shoot... when I go to the doctor, I usually tell him what's wrong and what I need from him.  Most of my medical visits are like that.

I also know that the therapy most of us need is to deal with the issues surrounding "our condition".

And then there are many who are just totally screwed up from the pressure and pain of it all.  They really need the help.

I'll agree with you whole heartidly that the way it is currently handled is dated. It would be nice to get medical covereage for it.  I'd be happy right now if everyone could get basic health care.

I can only see how the way the system works related to my experience.  I sorely needed phsyciatric help for a couple of months of my life.  I'm thankful that I had the wherewithall to recognize that need and seek help.

So kiddo... Yea... like that... you have a valid point.  What's the next step?  How do we prove your's and my opinion that the condition is not a mental one?  We don't even know what causes it.  And how do we get someone to listen.  I pose the question because perhaps, just perhaps, we might really be able to do something wonderful.

Cindi

[Hazumu]

Hi, Julie!

Thank you for reposting that.  I do agree with your point of view.  My point was, odious as a 'mental illness' diagnosis is, it confers an advantage I find useful in a limited but vital situation.  As there is yet no "this person is not crazy, what they are doing is perfectly natural, now leave them alone!" non-mental medical diagnosis, I must take what I can get to shield me from an authority at work who would see me drop-kicked out for my 'deviant, selfish, immoral behaviour.'

I always thought the 'D' in GID stood for Disphoria -- the antithesis of Euphoria.  I never believed it was a disorder -- only that I was or at last had become supremely dissatisfied with trying to maintain a role that I felt an absolute phony-[__] in.  So I can say I'm GID, because for me it's an accurate reflection of how I feel -- I don't like/am not happy with the sex my body was born with, and the concurrent gender role that, having been born with a penis, society has forced me to adopt just to be accepted and to 'belong'.

I notice there are a lot more hits for GIDisorder than GIDisphoria, so maybe that's another thing we need to seek to change.  But, for now, I know I'm just a disphoric kinda' gal...  

Karen

[Julie Marie]

How do we prove your's and my opinion that the condition is not a mental one?  We don't even know what causes it.  And how do we get someone to listen.  I pose the question because perhaps, just perhaps, we might really be able to do something wonderful.

Cindi

Well, I just look at other societies that have existed that accepted TGs totally.  Those TGs never had the issues we do today.  They lived their life as normal members of society.  

The problem is this society sees being TG as a mental disorder.  Heck, they see all kinds of differences in people as being a mental disorder or just plain screwed up.  I can't blame them, that's what they were taught from the time they were born but it doesn't mean they can't learn.  

This society is so hell bent on conformity it blinds them.  But we hear things like "Be an individual!"  "Follow your heart!"  "March to the tune of a different drummer!"  Then when people do we castigate them for being different.

That's the problem.  And we will only make headway when we point things like this out to them.  Maybe most people won't listen.  There seems to be a general belief that if most people believe it's right then it is.  Like when we used to think the world is flat or that the planets revolved around the earth.  People were persecuted and even executed for teaching what we now know is true.  That's the message we need to send.  Just because the majority believes it to be true doesn't make it so.

Julie

[Melissa]

Karen, there's 2 acronyms.

GD = Gender Dysphoria (an older definition, but IMO more accurate)
GID = Gender Identity Disorder

So, I can see how you got confused about that.

Melissa

[Hazumu]

Googling the three terms brought up:

Results - about 206,000 for "Gender Identity Disorder".
Results - about 157,000 for "Gender Dysphoria".
Results - about 713 for "Gender Identity Dysphoria".

So Disorder wins!

-K

[cindianna_jones]

Instead of "Disorder",

I prefer the term:

Disshevled

Stick that one in your bonnet and whistle Dixie.



Cindi

[SusanKay140]

Quoting Cindi:

Instead of "Disorder",

I prefer the term:

Disshevled

ROFLMA!

As to the thread subject, no expert cashing large checks feels very put upon, and is perfectly willing to take much more of that type of abuse.  I don't object to experts making a living, and certainly don't object to whacking them verbally about the head and shoulders.

Susan Kay