What am I doing wrong?

[mikke]

I feel like I'm not being accepted by the male community at ALL. It's very frusterating for me on so many levels. I'm an anthropology and psych major, so I am rather obsessive about observing people and their habits- I am constantly comparing myself to bio males and trying to distinguish differences. Small things- movements, the length of our ties, the way we greet one another...I feel like I'm improving every day. I work at starbucks, I interact with people constantly so I have PLENTY of practice.

Yet if a male customer thanks me for a drink, they say "thanks." If they thank my (bio-male) coworker for a drink, they usually say "thanks man!" or something to that extent.

Subtle things like that just bog me down now. It's not even that I'm being called by feminine pronouns, it's just that I'm not being unconsciously treated like a guy by someone who doesn't know me. As far as I know, to a passing glance I look like a young guy. Is there some sort of male secret handshake I'm missing here??

[Sandy]

Laine, I'd trade you girl for boy right about now, myself...

Are you on HRT currently?  The only thing I can think of is that after you've been on HRT for some period of time you start secreting pheromones of that gender.  But until that time you are giving off your birth pheromones.  You may be giving the the unconscious clue that you are not male and are treated in an androgynous way instead of a masculine way.

Anyway, if there is a secret male handshake I never got it either...

-Sandy

[beth]

I feel like I'm not being accepted by the male community at ALL. It's very frusterating for me on so many levels. I'm an anthropology and psych major, so I am rather obsessive about observing people and their habits- I am constantly comparing myself to bio males and trying to distinguish differences. Small things- movements, the length of our ties, the way we greet one another...I feel like I'm improving every day. I work at starbucks, I interact with people constantly so I have PLENTY of practice.

Yet if a male customer thanks me for a drink, they say "thanks." If they thank my (bio-male) coworker for a drink, they usually say "thanks man!" or something to that extent.

Subtle things like that just bog me down now. It's not even that I'm being called by feminine pronouns, it's just that I'm not being unconsciously treated like a guy by someone who doesn't know me. As far as I know, to a passing glance I look like a young guy. Is there some sort of male secret handshake I'm missing here??

                  My experience has been that most men are reluctant to be too friendly with a male stranger who has even the slightest suggestion of feminine features. It is a sub-conscious homophobic reaction. Once they get to know a person they get over it.

                  How does your greeting to them compare to your co-workers?  Using a "How's it goin", "hey man" or similar greeting may help.

beth

[Mia and Marq]

**Practices the secret handshake for Laine**

While I suspect that the phermones might play a part in it (have you tried male colognes and sprays like Axe and Tag), how you deliever yourself does play a big part of it. This goes for the reverse situation too, carry yourself with confidence. When you extert enough confidence, people are forced to believe what you're presenting.

Keep picking up on the subtle ways that guys communicate with each other and try to do the same and see how it works. Worse gets to worse, start punching all the guys in the shoulder and saying "Whats up bro?".


This bad advice was brought to you by
Marq

[Dennis]

I think Beth has it nailed. It's probably homophobia. If there's anything less than masculine, even smooth skin (and if you're pre-T, your skin probably is quite smooth), guys will be cautious until they know you're straight for sure.

Dennis

[angelsgirl]

(have you tried male colognes and sprays like Axe and Tag),

Just don't use it in the quantities my roommate does, you could kill somebody!  >

Along the same lines as Beth, you'll also want to apply cologne in moderation because smelling too perfumey could signal homosexuality to others, even if it's not intended to (and even if that's sounds ridiculous; there are plenty of prejudices that are ascribed even though they're equally ludicrous.)

Good Luck!

[Kate]

I think Beth has it nailed. It's probably homophobia. If there's anything less than masculine, even smooth skin (and if you're pre-T, your skin probably is quite smooth), guys will be cautious until they know you're straight for sure.

I'll third that. Men are often just insanely homophobic. Mannerisms can probably overcome some of that, but if they're even the least bit attracted to you, they're going to instinctively pull away and try to remain detached and distant.

[Melissa]

Another possibility is because you look so young.  Perhaps after you go on hormones and start to look older, you will get treated older.

Melissa

[Elizabeth]

Hi Laine,

The secret handshake is called "the nod". This is a nonverbal communication between men that is just a simple one pump up and down nod. It is just an acknowledgement. It is done most often when two men approach each other but it is not really appropriate to talk, like when it's someone you have never met. It is kinda like hello, goodbye, don't look at my wife or I will kill you, I am drunk or high and my wife don't know but you do, and a whole host of other meanings. Sometimes you get "the look" and then you return with the nod acknowledging you got "the look". This is all very subtile, but if you pay attention, you will get it. Interesting enough, I had to train myself to stop giving the nod.

Love always,
Elizabeth

[ConfusedMichelle]

Good to hear from ya, Laine.

I would say when greeting them at Starbucks, say things such as "Hey man, what can I get for ya?" or "Sup dude, what can I get for ya?"

As lame as this may sound, if you don't already, try wearing masculine rings, bracelets, or necklaces. Those thick, leather band watches (like from the Buckle or other trendy store) make your wrists look much manlier, same with necklaces and rings. Don't know how it works, just does.  My friend said that he knows a FTM by the hands and by the eyebrows? Hmmm...I'll try to get some other tips for ya.

Hope I helped a little bit, lemme know how your future encounters are?

Once again, great to hear from you man.

-Brady-

[Kismet]

Yeah, I dunno. I guess I don't pass very well, I supposedly have a very female face.
It doesn't matter how much or how loose the clothes I pile on are, my stupid breasts always show through. It frustrates me to the point of no end. So I always get called 'Darling' or 'girlie' or whatever.
She she she she she she she SHE.

[mikke]

Thanks for the tips guys! I knew you'd pull through for me. I'm definitely going to have to keep my eyes peeled for this "nod" thing.
I already wear old spice cologne, I've not found anything else that I like the smell of yet.

And yeah, I haven't started HRT yet which I know is going to be a definite barrier but I was soo hoping that if I just keep shaving that soft blonde hair on my face I'd pass for a younger guy (which doesn't work so well if you think too hard since you aren't allowed to work for sbux unless you're 18+). It works sometimes but not as much as I'd hoped.

God, HRT is really starting to sound like a miracle...

[LostInTime]

It all comes with time, patience, and just being out and about.

As for scents, I am a pushover when a man wears Grey Flannel.  *Yummy*

[ConfusedMichelle]

I am feeling a little blonde today, hehe, HRT is....??

As for scents Laine, try the LaCoste cologne. The light green kind and the kind in the red bottle are amazing. It's $45.00 for a smaller bottle, $60.00 for the big one. Smells great.

[EmergeAndSeeExit]

HRT=hormone replacement therapy. Testosterone or Estrogen.

I've definitely picked up on the nod. Thing is, I've always done it. Even before I started passing.

Tell ya what though, my friend told me that there are two nods. The downwards nod, which is the one that has already been described...and the upwards nod. Which you probably shouldn't do unless you're interested in the fella you're nodding at.

Just sayin'.

[Nero]

HRT=hormone replacement therapy. Testosterone or Estrogen.

I've definitely picked up on the nod. Thing is, I've always done it. Even before I started passing.

Tell ya what though, my friend told me that there are two nods. The downwards nod, which is the one that has already been described...and the upwards nod. Which you probably shouldn't do unless you're interested in the fella you're nodding at.

Just sayin'.

Interesting. I do the upwards nod (not a true nod, just a quick head lift/acknowledgement) which I picked up over the years from friends (who are all straight by the way). Maybe it depends on the area whether it's seen as suggestive or not.

[EmergeAndSeeExit]

Interesting. I do the upwards nod (not a true nod, just a quick head lift/acknowledgement) which I picked up over the years from friends (who are all straight by the way). Maybe it depends on the area whether it's seen as suggestive or not.

You've got me thinking about it now. I think maybe an upwards nod is only suggestive if you don't really know the person you're nodding at. It definitely looks friendlier. You kind of do it with an eyebrow raise and a smile, anyway.

[nonie]

Where I live, the upwards nod is a definite masculine "yo homey" kind of gesture.  Thugs greet other thugs that way and intimidate weaker-looking guys with it too.  But then, they're frowning when they do it, maybe with a smile it's suggestive.  I do know the downwards nod, I do that all the time, always did.  I've never really been comfortable with hugging anyone and everyone I remotely know at all like girls here do.

[ConfusedMichelle]

Hey Laine, how has it been workin out for ya?

-Brady-

[mikke]

Not so much luck so far, but mostly because I haven't really been able to observe said "nod." I'm going to keep paying attention until I notice these small details.