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Transsexual Lies

Started by Britney_413, September 13, 2010, 01:05:37 AM

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Britney_413

I go to a lot of gay bars which is probably a mistake but I like many TGs do so because we either haven't transitioned yet or haven't gotten the confidence yet that we pass well enough to play pool with the straight guys at the straight bars. Regardless, I've learned a lot about the transgendered "world" and how much of it is full of bold-faced lies.

Let's get started. We know that TGism comes in a number of forms. Transgender means "crossing traditional gender lines." That includes drag queens, ->-bleeped-<-s, crossdressers, and transsexuals. These gay bars that are allegedly trans-friendly tend to take all of these different types, put them in a blender, and turn it on until it becomes one big soup that nobody can understand. I've learned that a big part of these lies are coming from TG people themselves who are either extremely confused or simply buying into the nonsense they see on popular television.

I'll try not to make this too long but don't bet on it. :) I started out crossdressing fully one night with the help of friends. I went out to a gay bar I had previously been at as a "man." I thought it was just something I tried. I thought I was just a crossdresser--someone who generally likes to dress up as a woman and present female from time to time but who is otherwise happy and comfortable living a male life. Well, the TSs started telling me how much I need to start doing this. I need hormones, I need boobs, I need to go full time. Such truths but such lies. It has now been over two years since that day and I've realized how much of these environments are fiction. Let me explain.

A TS woman is a woman not just someone who wants to feel like a woman or who wants to have sex as a woman. Obviously by now I've realized I am not just a crossdresser but this realization came through my own self disovery and by actually rejecting the constant unsolicited advice from other "TSs" to do this and do that. Let's be frank. These same people who call themselves transsexuals have been coming to the same gay bars for years and years and years. They don't want to take hormones regularly because they don't want to lose their libido. They are prostituting and penetrating men. They are making porno videos in the "she male" category. They are doing drag shows every weekend. Yes, they have boob implants and laser hair removal but not a one of them wants to lose their penis. I knew one transwoman who only occasionally dropped into this bar and she finally got her SRS. Now she has never been seen again. This got me thinking. These same girls who are still to this day telling me how I need to get on hormones, get boobs, fix up my hair, put on more makeup, have skimpier dresses, etc. all balk at the mention of SRS. They can't see how I could be serious that I would even contemplate losing my penis.

Let's go back to the one who got SRS and disappeared. It all makes sense now. What do women in general do? Do they go to gay bars every weekend in over-feminine outfits with excessive makeup on and do shows? Do they find prostitution and pornography interesting for their careers? No they don't. What do they do? They get up and go to work in the morning. They pay their bills and pay their taxes. They date and fall in love. They were jeans and a shirt to a gas station and something sexy for a night out on the town. They don't need excessive makeup, ultra-feminine clothes, and extremely large breasts, and men over every night to feel more like a woman. They don't need that because they are women, period. Well a true transwoman is simply a woman and should generally think, act, and be like any other woman in society not including the special challenges and alterations that come with transtition.

So to sum up my point. A lot of people are playing girl out there. That is fine. That is what makes a TV or a CD. There is nothing wrong with this at all. What is wrong is the misinformation and inappropriate labelling that is dangerous and confusing to the TS who is trying to understand herself and where she needs to go. A TS is a woman who defines herself as a woman and not a TS like it is some fashion statement. And honestly, why do I need slut-like clothes and excessive makeup to be a woman? Why would I need big boobs? Last time I checked when I see women running errands during the day or even at straight bars and restaurants at night they are simply wearning normal female clothes with minimal makeup. So to sum up my rant, basically it is more of a warning that there are an awful lot of people out there who identify as TS who are giving other TSs extremely bad advice. Open your eyes and look. There are women and there are those who are playing girl. If you don't see GGs doing it, then you are likely on the wrong track. And I'm sick of these so-called TSs asking me when I'm going to get on stage to perform. Um, I'm not a drag queen and if these girls actually are TSs then why is it for ten years their lives have solely been based around hooking, show performances, and the porn industry? Doesn't sound like normal female behavior to me. Enough said.
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kelly_aus

I know a few who did the things you've mentioned simply to pay for GRS, but, admittedly, they would be the minority.. Also, many years ago, while I was in denial, I filled in for a friend in a drag show.. None of the girls and guys I was working with claimed to be anything other than CD's or drag queens, except those who were post-op or saving for GRS.. This was about 17 years ago in Australia..
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Cindy

Hi Britney

I agree with most of your post. I think TG girls, at least in my city, go to gay friendly places because they won't get hassled by Neanderthals. But as I became more confident I have moved on to go to 'normal' restaurants etc.  I think that when we (a TG club member) meet new girls who want to come out we tend to meet them in gay friendly places. They tend to be less intimidating.
But I totally agree about moving on. I've accepted I'm female gendered and wish to present that way as a normal healthy female. I get a kick out of wearing nice clothes but high heels and a mini at the supermarket is strange to say the least. I try and look as feminine as I can with make up, but not a DQ, just trying to hide the male looking bits. :laugh: :laugh:

I don't like generalisations but I was once told that 'most' DQ were gay males and 'most DK' were gay females. I have never done a survey myself ::). But that may fit with your observations. I have no issue with people being she-males and wishing to live that life. I have no issue with TG MtF who decide not to have the final surgery, for some, such as I, what's the use? I'm happy it is less able to perform ::), but in my fifties I'm not sure of the advantages of complete SRS surgery.

I also agree that we need to be able to warn young TG girls the dangers of mixing with people who may not understand the complexity of other peoples GID. I think this is a very strong reason to keep telling people to seek the help of trained therapists. From a personal point of view, the pictures I have seen of some she-males to be odd. An attractive looking 'woman' with an erect penis strikes me as strange. Although as I have said before, each person to their own.  Now an attractive looking man with an erect penis.....time for a shower.

Cindy
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Renate

There's a good reason for an MTF to go to a gay bar: to find a lesbian partner.
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Cindy

True that, but I don't think the poster was going that way :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


Cindy
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Sinnyo

Likewise - I agree with your post, Britney, and while I don't have any practical experience it is clear that the trans folk you describe are different. I think we've been hopping around that issue a fair bit here of late... I choose to do what I can to respect them, but that sort of behaviour does come across as more of a lifestyle choice than an attempt to lead a life. Considering them to be the same thing does no-one any favours.

Mine is a lousy paraphrasing, but I'd heard a quote attributed to Paul O'Grady once: that a ->-bleeped-<- cannot wait to ditch the corset and make-up when she gets home, but a transsexual simply wants to buy milk in the morning. It seemed somehow relevant. :)
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spacial

Brtiney

Have to agree with the main point you've made.

For myself, I would have liked to simply live as normal a life as I can, in the gender I feel. Not to make any point, nor to deceive. But simply to be part of society, contribute as we all seek to do and more importantly, to have been free of the insecurity and depression that comes from having to pretend.

Equally, if some want to frequent gay bars and the gay scene generally then that is as much their right as anyone else.

Form talking to people, the principal reason most give for avoiding gay bars is the fear of being labled gay or being hit upon by gay people. This seems, on the one hand, sad that some are so insecure and on the other, strange that they fear their own inability to say no.



addition.

Just realised, the way I've written the last sentence. sounds incredably hypocritical and arrogant. I'm really sorry. If it helps, I didn't mean to be. Otherwise, I will take a look at myself again and try to sort it out.  :)

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Cindy

I agree again with your last post Britney,

I think that gay clubs etc can be  training wheels. Then we need to get on the bike.

Then we can do the full Tour.

Hugs

Cindy
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Sandy

I agree completely! Initially It was suggested that I go to gay bars so I could learn from other TS's about socialization, deportment, etc. I soon found that they had little to teach since to many it was a hobby or part time diversion.

I don't deny them their needs. But I needed to learn from women who would know better than to lean way over a pool table to make a shot in a short skirt and make no attempt to maintain their modesty.

It was fun to get out, but hardly educational.

-Sandy
Out of the darkness, into the light.
Following my bliss.
I am complete...
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spacial

I found the overtly gay scene to have an attitude of promiscuousness and showey behaviour.

Like Sandy, I don't want to suggest I am in any way critical. It just isn't what I wanted.

I just sought to be respectable and to fit in.

(Dam. I wish I'd worded myself like that in my previous post  :'( )
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kelly_aus

I should have said a little more than I did in my previous post. The girls and guys I worked and associated with the time were more likely to point a genuine trans person in the direction of one of the support groups than anything else.. They were drag queens and kings, some were straight.. Having hung around in that scene, I agree that it's not the best place for FtM's or MtF's unless they also happen to be gay..

Quote from: CindyJames on September 13, 2010, 03:58:31 AM
I don't like generalisations but I was once told that 'most' DQ were gay males and 'most DK' were gay females. I have never done a survey myself ::). But that may fit with your observations. I have no issue with people being she-males and wishing to live that life. I have no issue with TG MtF who decide not to have the final surgery, for some, such as I, what's the use? I'm happy it is less able to perform ::), but in my fifties I'm not sure of the advantages of complete SRS surgery.

I also agree that we need to be able to warn young TG girls the dangers of mixing with people who may not understand the complexity of other peoples GID. I think this is a very strong reason to keep telling people to seek the help of trained therapists. From a personal point of view, the pictures I have seen of some she-males to be odd. An attractive looking 'woman' with an erect penis strikes me as strange. Although as I have said before, each person to their own.  Now an attractive looking man with an erect penis.....time for a shower.

Cindy

Yeah, Cindy most of the Drag crowd I knew were gay/lesbian.. There was a couple who were straight, but only 1 or two. I'm with you on the surgery issue too. I want it, but for various reasons I don't know that I'll get there.. The club I worked at was one of the larger and better known venues so it often attracted the newer, younger girls and guys. There was usually a Seahorse or two around to keep an eye out for them and to give them a little guidance and friendship.. ->-bleeped-<-s strike me as a bit weird, but who am I to judge?

And as for that last line, don't be too long in the shower.. I need one too!

As for myself, despite being a straight girl (I think!) I'll probably still go to the odd gay pub or club (not the there's a whole lot of choice here Cindy) simply because it is somewhere I feel comfortable - oh also you don't get the odd looks the older people(over 25) get in straight clubs and the music is usually better! And I still enjoy a good drag show..


Hugs,
Kelly
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valyn_faer

Am I the only one who has a problem with all this over-generalization? Women don't need big boobs and tons of makeup to feel like real women? Are you serious? Is that why so many women get boobjobs these days? Where are you from? Go to Tempe, AZ, and you'll see tons of women who wear way too much makeup and have fake boobs. Go to Arizona State University at 10am on a Monday morning and walk across campus, you'll see dozens of girls dressed up looking like they're ready for a Friday night out at a dance club, when they're just going to class. Please don't over-generalize that ALL "real" women behave a certain "right" way. Not all women are the same, not all men are the same, not all black people are the same, not all white people are the same, not all Asians are the same, not all native Americans are the same. So, why would all transpeople be the same? Is there one "right" way to be black? One "right" way to be Asian? So, why would there be one "right" way to be trans? I'm thoroughly baffled by how even people within the trans community can't consider the possibility that the trans community might be just as diverse as every other community.

Also, people deal with their insecurities in different ways. Some people who are really insecure actually crave being the center of attention. Maybe some of these drag performers use performing as a way of overcoming their insecurities. And when they're on stage, maybe they get addicted to the attention. Maybe they were treated like crap in their past and so having people cheer them on and shower them with positive attention makes them feel good. Maybe some of them then confuse that attention with love and/or sexual attraction and end up being promiscuous with their fans. You think cis-women don't do the exact same thing? Look at any cis-woman strip club:
1) tons of makeup - check
2) fake boobs - check
3) performing on a stage - check
4) being lavished with attention - check
5) some of them end up being promiscuous with their fans - check
6) some of them ended up there because of insecurities - check
7) some of them ended up there just to pay for something: college, bills, being a single parent - check

You completely overlooked an entire group of cis-women who do the exact same thing. And by the way, I've known plenty of straight cis-women who get super dressed up with tons of makeup and provocative clothing only to go to the gay bar with their gay male friends. They do it to feel good about themselves, not just to attract potential partners. Sometimes they just want to feel pretty without getting hit on.
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Janet_Girl

Each person is their own as to how they dress.  They dress to please themselves.  College students are just a sampling of the way younger cis-folks may dress.  But it by no means the way all students or young people dress.

Just as not all cis-women dress in sweats, or a top and jeans.  But to get an idea of how the women in your area dress, go to a local mall and just observe.  But don't make the mistake of watching an age group beyond your own.  Watching the young teens/20 something will not work for a woman in her 30s/40s/50s.

I fully understand why Transpeople go to gay bars.  They have a long standing of being more accepting of Transpeople.  But as you grow as the woman or man you were mean to be, you will move away from the gay bars, unless your orientation is that way.

I used to go to the local gay bars, just to get out.  And I will still, to help a sister experience being in public, for the first time.  But I am beyond them for myself.  I have even moved beyond the bar/club scene, but I do go to, as Cindy said "normal", restaurants, stores and such.
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valyn_faer

I wasn't only looking at "my age group," nor was I implying that all college cis-girls dress that way. They're not my age group, either. At least, they wouldn't consider me to be in their age group. I was just pointing out that there are plenty of cis-women who behave in a way that is being labeled as not the way "real" women behave, but are just being overlooked. If you want to create a childish, exclusive little club that excludes those who don't behave in what you deem the "right" way is, that's fine. Feel free to count me out. I'll take being a "fake" woman or a "fake" transperson over being an arrogant elitist any day of the week. By the way, just so there's no confusion, I'm not a performer.
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kyril

Quote from: valyn_faer on September 13, 2010, 10:35:32 AM
Am I the only one who has a problem with all this over-generalization? Women don't need big boobs and tons of makeup to feel like real women? Are you serious? Is that why so many women get boobjobs these days? Where are you from? Go to Tempe, AZ, and you'll see tons of women who wear way too much makeup and have fake boobs. Go to Arizona State University at 10am on a Monday morning and walk across campus, you'll see dozens of girls dressed up looking like they're ready for a Friday night out at a dance club, when they're just going to class. Please don't over-generalize that ALL "real" women behave a certain "right" way. Not all women are the same, not all men are the same, not all black people are the same, not all white people are the same, not all Asians are the same, not all native Americans are the same. So, why would all transpeople be the same? Is there one "right" way to be black? One "right" way to be Asian? So, why would there be one "right" way to be trans? I'm thoroughly baffled by how even people within the trans community can't consider the possibility that the trans community might be just as diverse as every other community.

Also, people deal with their insecurities in different ways. Some people who are really insecure actually crave being the center of attention. Maybe some of these drag performers use performing as a way of overcoming their insecurities. And when they're on stage, maybe they get addicted to the attention. Maybe they were treated like crap in their past and so having people cheer them on and shower them with positive attention makes them feel good. Maybe some of them then confuse that attention with love and/or sexual attraction and end up being promiscuous with their fans. You think cis-women don't do the exact same thing? Look at any cis-woman strip club:
1) tons of makeup - check
2) fake boobs - check
3) performing on a stage - check
4) being lavished with attention - check
5) some of them end up being promiscuous with their fans - check
6) some of them ended up there because of insecurities - check
7) some of them ended up there just to pay for something: college, bills, being a single parent - check

You completely overlooked an entire group of cis-women who do the exact same thing. And by the way, I've known plenty of straight cis-women who get super dressed up with tons of makeup and provocative clothing only to go to the gay bar with their gay male friends. They do it to feel good about themselves, not just to attract potential partners. Sometimes they just want to feel pretty without getting hit on.
This. Exactly this.


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Nygeel

When I started reading this, I thought it would be about being hassled in gay clubs for being trans (something that's happened to me). I was wrong. Way too many generalizations. Who can really dictate what other people are in their identities? Can a trans person also be gay and thus frequent gay bars? Or, what about the trans women that can't afford anything (food, housing, clothes) so they turn to porn and prostitution? What's wrong with a woman penetrating a man? Some guys like pegging, and some women enjoy doing it.

Why do all transsexual people have to fit ONE specific set type of woman? It's bogus.
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Janet_Girl

Precisely.  Each person is their own person.  It is your style as to how you look.

To say "This" is how a real woman or man dresses is pure idiocy.
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Ayaname

I completely agree. I had a very similar learning experience when I used to go to gay bars.
I think it's wrong for any trans person to suggest how far another person takes their own transition. If anyone wants validation on whether or not they should transition it's not something I'll ever give.

As for valyn_faer's post:
I think the generalization was not meant to include your average cis women that happens to wear too much makeup and revealing clothes. There is a very specific type of "over-doing it" that is pretty much only characteristic of bad ->-bleeped-<-s and ghetto hookers. We're talking about the kind of garb that will get disrespectful glares pretty much wherever you go. And sure, if this is how a woman wants to be it's her choice and she's no less of a woman for doing it. But it still is a lifestyle that will set you apart from most other women, which is the point of making the distinction.
I can understand why this struck a cord with the FtMs though. This kind of stigma is what you guys have been trying to escape your whole lives so it makes sense that it'd be a touchy subject. I just think the original post was simply aimed at what most MtFs are familiar with when we think of over-done ->-bleeped-<-s. Britney made specific mention of your average woman's "needs" as opposed to "wants". I think it can be agreed that if a cis woman feels that she "needs" excessive makeup or a boob job just to feel like a real woman then there is probably something wrong with her.
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Nygeel

Quote from: Ayaname on September 13, 2010, 01:57:27 PM
I can understand why this struck a cord with the FtMs though. This kind of stigma is what you guys have been trying to escape your whole lives so it makes sense that it'd be a touchy subject. I just think the original post was simply aimed at what most MtFs are familiar with when we think of over-done ->-bleeped-<-s. Britney made specific mention of your average woman's "needs" as opposed to "wants". I think it can be agreed that if a cis woman feels that she "needs" excessive makeup or a boob job just to feel like a real woman then there is probably something wrong with her.
I don't understand the bolded...nor do I understand why feeling like modifying your body=something wrong.
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Dana Lane

I am glad someone posted this. I have been thinking a lot about it lately. There will be some girls that always hang out in the gay or trans community for the majority of their social life. It is as if they are in constant transition. Living their transition instead of their life. I am still pre-op, myself. I do hang out at gay bars and with others in the trans community but that may be a lot less in the future. I do just want to live my life as you explained.
============
Former TS Separatist who feels deep regret
http://www.transadvocate.com/category/dana-taylor
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