Classification, diversification, and unification

[Tammy Hope]

I will ask your forgiveness in advance for the clumsiness with which I will no doubt present this subject. Frankly, my own thoughts on the subject are not fully formed. But after reading some commentary on the Araguz case last night I'm impressed both that it's a fertile subject for discussion, and that I perhaps will better sort the competing thoughts in my own mind by hearing the thoughts of others.

The overall point derives from my longstanding discomfort with the public perception that being trans is just a sebset of being homosexual. While I understand and accept the practical reality that activist transgender people have a similar interest in expanded equality as do homosexual people, I'm not sure that the distinction is clearly made that we are allies but yet we are not "cut of the same cloth"

What complicates this is that even when one narrows their focus to those of us under the supposed (and sometimes controversial in itself) "transgender umbrella" there are not a few different sub-sections with dissimilar agendas, intentions, and levels of activism.

And all too often, those who take one approach are critical of those who take the other

(for instance, the activist says of the "stealth" that trying to conform and blend into mainstream society does a disservice to those who face the great difficulties of transition - that we should help pave the way for those who come after; while the stealth is often uncomfortable with the sometimes negative attention the activist draws to the TG "community" and just wants to be "normal")

So what's on my mind is how to sort through all the conflicting goals, intentions, and maneuvering.

A starting place might be to identify exactly who the major groups under the TG umbrella are. by the very nature of things, this will surely overlook some (probably a lot of the replies here will be "I'm not any of those things!") - but one has to start somewhere.

One group, which might be inarticulately but conveniently referred to as the Intersex subset would be those who, through some specific medical condition, can reasonably make the claim that the never actually were their assigned gender to start with. In the most wooden understanding of "transgender" - they wouldn't consider themselves to be TG at all. It's only to the extent that the public doesn't understand their medical condition that they get lumped in with those of us for whom the dysphoria is mental and not arising from a physical condition.

This, by the way, seems to be what Nikki Araguz is arguing and which, if true, would mean that the argument that the outcome of her case would automatically broadly apply to all TG persons is not necessarily true.

The next major group are those for whom their gender dysphoria arises in the classic (if somewhat sloppy) manner described as "born in the wrong body" - that is, an apparently normal physical body of the birth-assigned gender, yet mentally, spiritually if you will, identified with the opposite gender.
the complication here is for some of these, their sexual orientation post transition is heterosexual (in the context of the "new" gender) - i.e. a M2F who is attracted to males, or vice versa. and for others, their post-transition gender is the same as those to whom they are sexually attracted (a M2F who is drawn to females and vice versa)

It seems to me that the former group is FAR less likely to produce "crusaders" for LGBT rights and the latter is far more likely to - because the M2F who is attracted to females is now (in a sense always but you get the meaning) a Lesbian as well as a TG (or,  in actuallity, a former TG having been "cured" by transition - but again, you understand my meaning)

It seems to me that the TG lesbian (or F2M gay man) is much more predisposed to merge seamlessly into the "gay rights" rubric than the post-trans heterosexual.

This is a situation tailor made for conflict within the TG community and between at least some transgender people and the "gay community"

The third major group, for the purpose of this discussion, is the self-described "gender-queer" people. Androgyny and "genderless" and a hundred other largely self-defined flavors.  these people, so it seems to me from the outside looking in, also seem to fit in quite well with the LGBT activism because it seems that the non-conformity of their situation is actually more the fulcrum of their lives than a specifically focused gender issue. (Please gently correct me if I'm misunderstanding this) And while homosexuality is indeed about an inmate characteristic of a person, it is PERCEIVED by society as being defined by behavior and thus ultimately an example of nonconformity.
And even if the gay person knows it's not REALLY abut behavior, they find the context of the discussion forcing them into a "so what if it is?" position in terms of activism.

so you have, so to speak, four sub-sets....two of which (predominantly) want to basically get their house in order and blend into the "normal" culture and be "just another woman" (or man) and two of which (predominantly) seem inclined to agitate for social change....and both groups at least mildly uncomfortable with the other.

Am I describing things right so far?

now, the conflict in my mind is that I see the appeal in "blending in" and being "just another woman" - it is very very attractive to me.

Likewise, I see considerable intellectual appeal in helping create a world where my "little sister" can effect her transition seamlessly without suffering the slings and arrows that have been the fate of so many before her. I see the argument that my road is easier because my sisters before me didn't slip back into the shadows.

And if that conflict wasn't enough, I am very convinced that if I had my choice, the public would very clearly recognize the distinction between transgender people - and what was fair and just in the law for transgender people - was an entirely separate issue from homosexuality and what was fair and just in the law for homosexuals, even if in some places that just outcome overlaps.

However, it seems to me that as long as the most prominent transgender activists are lesbians who identify strongly with the LGBT movement, this can't happen.

so, ya know, I guess what I'm trying to say is that whenever almost any prominent subject (like the Araguz case)comes up, I have very conflicted feelings on it.

Thoughts?

[Cowboi]

I see a lot of the same issues you see when it comes to the idea that some of us "fit" in the GLB community and some of us don't. Also I agree with your basic vague break down of the community, I personally have trouble even figuring out what we are all doing together sometimes. There are people who I can't really figure out how they actually fit into the community at all but at the same time they don't have a community of their own (does that make sense?).

I'm not a part of the GLB community, sometimes I do use the term bisexual to describe myself but more out of respect for my physical relationship with my partner who is trans and a desire to not limit myself based upon gender. Yet it is still true that my attraction is, always has been and still seems to be only to women. I've never met a person who was both male physically and mentally that I have been even the slightest bit attracted too. The male body isn't really a turn on or off for me, but the male mentality tends to be a big blinking sign on the horizon that sends me hightailing it back the way I came lol.

God, I don't have it together tonight. I really want to respond to this better but I'm having some type of on and off again sleepy space cadet issue. I will try to check back tomorrow when I have my game together

[Fencesitter]

@Tammy

I basically agree with you.

Let me add that I'm more of the "blending in with society" type and stealth wherever I can. I do not resent others being "out and proud" in itself, quite the contrary, we need people to be role models, and I think many other "blending in" people think this too. (However, I wonder if with more and more transmen in the media, we FTMs might end up being "clocked" more easily by people on the streets. We do often have typical physical features etc. Maybe I'm just paranoid here.)

What freaks me out is when the "out" people do extreme "gender-breaking" things which are not well accepted by society and go public with it. I'm speaking about examples like the "pregnant transman" news etc. My fear is that as the media tend not to report about the boring blending-in but out transpeople so much and prefer to focus on the more sensational cases, this may lead society to think that we are rather freaks than just normal people with a somewhat weird past.

And whenever I say this opinion, I get sh*t from some of the activists and "out and proud" people. They accuse me to bend too much to society's rules, to underestimate the ability of people to differentiate between, say, Thomas Beatie wanting to give birth to children and me who would rather die than do that. And that I want to impose my rules on other transpeople's lives and that it's none of my business how they relate to the media and what they tell them. And that it's these extreme people who help us get more acceptance when we do things which really don't fit in the binary cause they're the avantgarde of the same rights movments there or something like that. And that trashy talk shows with trashy people in it shouldn't bother me at all (not talking about Beatie here, he isn't trashy, but I think you get what I mean).

The interesting thing here is that these accusations often come from middle-class people in a somewhat privileged situation by terms of society. Like, living in the more up-scale or progressive "hippie" quarters of their town where trans-bashing is not usual, having LGBT-friendly jobs, not having to look for a new job in the middle of transition while still having the old names in their papers, no passing problems on the streets, not big trouble with family and friends for being trans, not having to deal with the kind of people who watch trashy talk shows all the time, FTMs not transitioning physically at all and just being perceived as a woman in boys' clothes which is no big hassle here in this country, etc. Or the accusations come from people who have nothing to lose for other reasons.

Sure, it was easy for them to tell me that it's extremely important that society breaks down gender barriers with pregnant FTM reports etc., that it's important that a big variety of FTMs get into the media and not just the boring "fit into society" ones, that it was everybody's duty not to go stealth so that society can learn that being trans is okay etc., and to look down on me for my supposed close-mindedness and me going stealth and hating pregnant FTM media reports and other reports showing the "great, avant-garde gender-breaking role" trans people could have. And that being trans was no problem any more and that they did not get into trouble for this, so I was just paranoid blabla.

But, well, I was living and transitioning in a rather dangerous quarter of my town then, was looking for a new job and was afraid I might not get one as employers might still fear I might get pregnant in spite of transitioning, and could not avoid dealing with people freaking out about transpeople in my old job (I was stealth there). And I just hated being asked by friends and family if I wanted to become pregnant too. I also know a trans man who got beaten up horribly by people who had found out he's trans, he did not have the privilege to be able to avoid transhaters 100% in his job and private life. Later, he also got accused as not being a role model for future transitioners, as he lived almost completely stealth then.

So, yeah, I think this aspect also plays a big role here sometimes. People living in privileged ivory towers being ignorant about the fact that not everybody lives in an LGBT-friendly environment, and that therefore not everybody wants to live out and proud or shout "hooray" about things like pregnant FTM media reports if this increases their chance to get bashed in the streets. Yes, it could help in the long run if we were all out etc. But I live now.

Oh, and I did not want to bash Beatie here, I know that a part of the media attention was not of his own choice, and I have no problem with other FTMs doing the pregnancy thing. I just took this example as an example, nothing else.

[Cowboi]

I hear a lot of what you are saying Fencesitter and often find myself feeling very similar. I don't agree that it's the activists out there who push and push and push the media and the people who get us ahead. It is people like you and me. I've been on both sides of that street, I came out very young and when I was young I was very vocal and in your face about it. Now that I've gotten older I've settled more into the stealth mode. I do come out to people and I am open to talking about my identity if asked about it (granted you can tell the difference between people being honest and curious and people trying to be jerks... I don't talk with jerks lol).

The response I've gotten from people through my life is that my being a nice person who was calm and reasonable, alway willing to answer questions and just living my life like an average guy as if nothing were different or odd about me has apparently gained me more respect and more allies than being in your face did. People tell me all of the time they appreciate that I'm so open about it and that they can ask questions, at the same time none of those people treat me like I'm any different from other men, they didn't know when they first met me but when they did find out it was a shock.... because I was soooo normal. In a way people like it better when you're different but you don't make an effort to shove it in their face all of the time. Of course I live in Nebraska, and honestly that is the average view point around here about anyone regardless of if it's GLBT or some other identity. They see those of us who have differences as being quirky but so long as we feel like we belong and act like we want to then we are welcome in.

I think there is more damage done by the activists than they can even see. I get told pretty much weekly that someone in my life appreciates that I'm not being rude and confrontational like (insert whatever name is currently in the media).

At the same time I manage to be active in our community in real life and act as a role model for younger people. I attend things like PFLAG and other local groups. I talk with other people, I let people give out my email or phone number to friends of friends who just don't know if they are trans or not or think they are but know no one else like them.

In the long run I'm still stealth, people walking by me on the streets almost never know. In 3 years of being on T only 2 people have ever said that they knew before I told them, everyone else has acted like I must be lying or joking (not that it was bad, just they couldn't believe it). I make a lot of friends, create a lot of allies and get a hell of a lot of respect from people. I'm a very hard person to dislike because I'm calm, rational, open and kind. Even if it takes a bit that combination tends to win out in the end of any argument. I'm the one people come back to days later just to say that they are so impressed with how I acted when they acted like a jerk and we become friends.

I think the in your face tactic is over rated and I think a lot of people who want to live that way don't realize how they can be a positive force inside our community AND outside of it at the same time without drawing negative attention to themselves or our community.

[Tammy Hope]

Really good replies both of you, I don't have time to do them justice right now but both provoke some reactions from me.

As an aside, while talking about labels but nothing at all to do with the topic...

Why is the "B" even there? I've never heard of anyone taking much grief, particularly in terms of "rights" for being bi.

either they are bi in the privacy of their own bedroom and no one knows, or they are bi openly BUT what gets them flack is the perception they are engaging in homosexual activity. whether they are fully gay or not, it's the "gay behavior" which is at issue.

sometimes I think someone somewhere thinks the more letters we can throw in the acronym, the greater our perceived strength (or the more likely we'll cover someone you know?)

[rejennyrated]

Tammy - your analysis is great, however I feel that it is possible to have, or indeed be, at various times a little bit of all of your groups.

Ok technically I am intersexed, but as, until puberty, it didn't prevent me from outwardly developing reasonably normally I don't think it really counts as not being the original gender. I was rather a subtle variant,  even after puberty although I was under masculinised and had some degree of gynecomastia I didn't really consider the possibility and indeed I only found out that I had been intersexed some years later. What I have found out since is that mine is not as unusual a story as you might think.

Stealth, I did for a while when newly postop, and again a little later on when as a longterm postop woman I went to work for a while in a secure military environment.  During that time I was not hooked into any trans organisations. I can well understand how some people need to do this, but I think you must bear in mind that it is perfectly possible to come back out of stealth, as indeed I have done to some extent, when the need no longer exists.

When not in stealth I have also done some work as an activist, in relation to the UK law change on both gender recognition and civil partnerships.

My position now is that I will not advertise my history, but neither will I actively conceal it. Some of my friends I have voluntarily told, others remain ignorant. I play things by ear.

I am not androgyne, but I do share with them their relaxed attitude to gender expression, and perhaps because I had the fortune to have very understanding parents, even back then, I got to grow up rather openly in between genders and hence in my childhood had something of a gender queer existence almost two decades before the term even existed.

So in a very real sense at different points in my life I have been all of them, and indeed I now consider myself to exist in a virtual space somewhere in between Cis Trans IS Queer Stealth and Out.

So personally I think that the boundaries between the various groups are softer and more varied than perhaps their diehard purist members might think.

[Fencesitter]

Okay, this gets a little bit off-topic here, but I just can't help myself.

Why is the "B" even there? I've never heard of anyone taking much grief, particularly in terms of "rights" for being bi.

either they are bi in the privacy of their own bedroom and no one knows, or they are bi openly BUT what gets them flack is the perception they are engaging in homosexual activity. whether they are fully gay or not, it's the "gay behavior" which is at issue.

sometimes I think someone somewhere thinks the more letters we can throw in the acronym, the greater our perceived strength (or the more likely we'll cover someone you know?)

Oh it's not like that. Sure, if you are bi and happen to be with a partner of the opposite sex, you can be in "stealth" mode unless you've been out before. But otherwise, bi people don't only have to deal with the usual homophobia, but also with biphobia on top of this. I've even gotten more hassle in my life for being bi than for being trans. Here is a good list of specifically biphobic prejudices, and I have had to deal with all of them but 2 or 3. The three most frequent prejudices were that I couldn't be bi as bisexuality doesn't really exist, that I am an untrustworthy slut shagging everyone and that I was confused and immature and hadn't decided which side to go to yet.

Source: http://allies.tamu.edu/resources/biphobia.htm :

What Does Biphobia Look Like?

    * Assuming that everyone you meet is either heterosexual or homosexual.
    * Supporting and understanding a bisexual identity for young people because you identified "that way" before you came to your "real" lesbian/gay/heterosexual identity.
    * Expecting a bisexual to identify as heterosexual when coupled with the "opposite" gender/sex.
    * Believing bisexual men spread AIDS/HIV and other STDs to heterosexuals.
    * Thinking bisexual people haven't made up their minds.
    * Assuming a bisexual person would want to fulfill your sexual fantasies or curiosities.
    * Assuming bisexuals would be willing to "pass" as anything other than bisexual.
    * Feeling that bisexual people are too outspoken and pushy about their visibility and rights.
    * Automatically assuming romantic couplings of two women are lesbian, or two men are gay, or a man and a woman are heterosexual.
    * Expecting bisexual people to get services, information and education from heterosexual service agencies for their "heterosexual side" (sic) and then go to gay and/or lesbian service agencies for their "homosexual side" (sic).
    * Feeling bisexuals just want to have their cake and eat it too.
    * Believing that bisexual women spread AIDS/HIV and other STDs to lesbians.
    * Using the terms "phase" or "stage" or "confused" or "fence-sitter" or "bisexual" or "AC/DC" or "switchhitter" as slurs or in an accusatory way.
    * Thinking bisexuals only have committed relationships with "opposite" sex/gender partners.
    * Looking at a bisexual person and automatically thinking of their sexuality rather than seeing them as a whole, complete person.
    * Believing bisexuals are confused about their sexuality.
    * Assuming that bisexuals, if given the choice, would prefer to be within an "opposite" gender/sex coupling to reap the social benefits of a "heterosexual" pairing.
    * Not confronting a biphobic remark or joke for fear of being identified as bisexual.
    * Assuming bisexual means "available."
    * Thinking that bisexual people will have their rights when lesbian and gay people win theirs.
    * Being gay or lesbian and asking your bisexual friend about their lover only when that lover is the same sex/gender.
    * Feeling that you can't trust a bisexual because they aren't really gay or lesbian, or aren't really heterosexual.
    * Thinking that people identify as bisexual because it's "trendy."
    * Expecting a bisexual to identify as gay or lesbian when coupled with the "same" sex/gender.
    * Expecting bisexual activists and organizers to minimize bisexual issues (i.e. HIV/AIDS, violence, basic civil rights, fighting the Right, military, same sex marriage, child custody, adoption, etc.) and to prioritize the visibility of "lesbian and/or gay" issues.
    * Avoid mentioning to friends that you are involved with a bisexual or working with a bisexual group because you are afraid they will think you are a bisexual.

This article sums biphobia and its effects up quite well: http://www.bisexualindex.org.uk/index.php/Biphobia

And if you really want to read a lot more about this subject, here's a good paper about it:
http://www.stonewall.org.uk/documents/Bisexual_Participatory_Appraisal_Research.pdf

[spacial]

Tammy.

Your essay is great. I will spend some time thinking about it and thank you for posting.

[Tammy Hope]

Okay, this gets a little bit off-topic here, but I just can't help myself.

Yeah, wow. That's definately more than I want to derail the main thread with...some stuff on there I'd comment on in various ways in a different thread but I'll save it and get back on topic.

Let me add that I'm more of the "blending in with society" type and stealth wherever I can. I do not resent others being "out and proud" in itself, quite the contrary, we need people to be role models, and I think many other "blending in" people think this too.

Agreed, particularly with the caveat you add...
What freaks me out is when the "out" people do extreme "gender-breaking" things which are not well accepted by society and go public with it. I'm speaking about examples like the "pregnant transman" news etc. My fear is that as the media tend not to report about the boring blending-in but out transpeople so much and prefer to focus on the more sensational cases, this may lead society to think that we are rather freaks than just normal people with a somewhat weird past.[/quote]
As with every other sort of news, it's the "weird and freaky" that makes the news, not the "normal" folks. And yes, it's that segment of our community that, as much as i defend their rights to do so, make me think that overall we (those of us who don't  come off as "weird") have a harder time entering the mainstream.

And whenever I say this opinion, I get sh*t from some of the activists and "out and proud" people. They accuse me to bend too much to society's rules...

It is undeniable that all of us to one degree or another are influenced by the "cultural norm" even as we seek to expand the norm to include us (even the stealthy among us want society to not find us deviant if they do know about us). And it's the rare person indeed who never sees ANYthing in another human being that doesn't make them say "what the heck is SHE thinking?"

so too much "obeying the rules" is very much a vague and shifting standard - what's too much for me might not be enough for you and vice versa.

But it does me no good to deny that there are occasions when I see, for instance, a participant in a gay pride parade and think "You really are NOT helping" and when that happens I am thinking in terms of "society's rules"

Still, it is likewise true that while society's rules are too harsh in places and often misapplied, they do exist for a reason and there are a lot of things the rules disapprove of that most of us disapprove of as well.

The unanswerable question is - when are you pushing because the peace of your soul DEMANDS that you push...and when are you pushing just to piss off "society"?

The former, IMO, is crucial to do, the latter might be counterproductive to the former.

...to underestimate the ability of people to differentiate between, say, Thomas Beatie wanting to give birth to children and me who would rather die than do that.

It's not that simple. Those people of good will towards us will not be swayed by the "shocking" trans person, those who hate us will often not be swayed by whatever level of "normality" we achieve.

The fulcrum is the people who are uncertain - who have both good instincts about being good to their fellow humans AND reservations about how much society's rules need changing. It's THOSE people for who them "genderqueer" behavior or identity is most difficult to accept and might be the most vulnerable to being turned to a prejudiced view of anything trans.

I confess, I don't have a good answer - my formal position is that if your sense of self demands a non-binary identity then you have EVERY right to it. But at the same time I'm troubled by the thought that some of those who fall under the trans umbrella are focusing as much on proving a shocking point as they are on being themselves.

I hope not - but I wonder. Again, it comes back to visibility. It's the different, the "weird" that is going to end up in the media - that and the "squeaky wheel" activist. That means that the one group that the "fence sitter" () is often likely NOT to see, unless the personally know one, is the "normal" post-transition person who's just trying to go through life as an ordinary woman/man.

And that I want to impose my rules on other transpeople's lives and that it's none of my business how they relate to the media and what they tell them.

It's none of our business how they live - I can't agree with them it's not our business what they say when they profess to speak for the whole community.

And that it's these extreme people who help us get more acceptance when we do things which really don't fit in the binary cause they're the avantgarde of the same rights movments there or something like that.

No, I disagree with them here too. that's like saying you advance gay rights by advocating for S&M or bestiality. It does the gay person no good to say there's no relationship between the three - to the "vanilla" person, all are various forms of sexual deviancy....and in that persons eyes S&M is just a little bit further down the same general path of deviancy.

but no one would argue, I don't think, that you advance, for instance, gay marriage by normalizing S&M.

And that trashy talk shows with trashy people in it shouldn't bother me at all (not talking about Beatie here, he isn't trashy, but I think you get what I mean).

Springer and Povich and their ilk. Does us no good at all. Though I think that lot does a lot to promote negative stereotypes in many different demographics.

The interesting thing here is that these accusations often come from middle-class people in a somewhat privileged situation by terms of society. Like, living in the more up-scale or progressive "hippie" quarters of their town where trans-bashing is not usual, having LGBT-friendly jobs, not having to look for a new job in the middle of transition while still having the old names in their papers, no passing problems on the streets, not big trouble with family and friends for being trans, not having to deal with the kind of people who watch trashy talk shows all the time, FTMs not transitioning physically at all and just being perceived as a woman in boys' clothes which is no big hassle here in this country, etc. Or the accusations come from people who have nothing to lose for other reasons.

Hear, hear! Well said, please go on...

Sure, it was easy for them to tell me that it's extremely important that society breaks down gender barriers with pregnant FTM reports etc., that it's important that a big variety of FTMs get into the media and not just the boring "fit into society" ones, that it was everybody's duty not to go stealth so that society can learn that being trans is okay etc., and to look down on me for my supposed close-mindedness and me going stealth and hating pregnant FTM media reports and other reports showing the "great, avant-garde gender-breaking role" trans people could have. And that being trans was no problem any more and that they did not get into trouble for this, so I was just paranoid blabla.

But, well, I was living and transitioning in a rather dangerous quarter of my town then, was looking for a new job and was afraid I might not get one as employers might still fear I might get pregnant in spite of transitioning, and could not avoid dealing with people freaking out about transpeople in my old job (I was stealth there). And I just hated being asked by friends and family if I wanted to become pregnant too. I also know a trans man who got beaten up horribly by people who had found out he's trans, he did not have the privilege to be able to avoid transhaters 100% in his job and private life. Later, he also got accused as not being a role model for future transitioners, as he lived almost completely stealth then.

So, yeah, I think this aspect also plays a big role here sometimes. People living in privileged ivory towers being ignorant about the fact that not everybody lives in an LGBT-friendly environment, and that therefore not everybody wants to live out and proud or shout "hooray" about things like pregnant FTM media reports if this increases their chance to get bashed in the streets. Yes, it could help in the long run if we were all out etc. But I live now.

Well said.

[Tammy Hope]

The response I've gotten from people through my life is that my being a nice person who was calm and reasonable, alway willing to answer questions and just living my life like an average guy as if nothing were different or odd about me has apparently gained me more respect and more allies than being in your face did. People tell me all of the time they appreciate that I'm so open about it and that they can ask questions,

Similarly here.

at the same time none of those people treat me like I'm any different from other men, they didn't know when they first met me but when they did find out it was a shock.... because I was soooo normal. In a way people like it better when you're different but you don't make an effort to shove it in their face all of the time.

This is poarallel to what I was thinking too.

Of course I live in Nebraska, and honestly that is the average view point around here about anyone regardless of if it's GLBT or some other identity. They see those of us who have differences as being quirky but so long as we feel like we belong and act like we want to then we are welcome in.

I think there is more damage done by the activists than they can even see. I get told pretty much weekly that someone in my life appreciates that I'm not being rude and confrontational like (insert whatever name is currently in the media).

Having spent so much of my life on the "right wing" i was aware of that mindset and consciously try to carry my presentation with that in mind.

At the same time I manage to be active in our community in real life and act as a role model for younger people. I attend things like PFLAG and other local groups. I talk with other people, I let people give out my email or phone number to friends of friends who just don't know if they are trans or not or think they are but know no one else like them.

In the long run I'm still stealth, people walking by me on the streets almost never know. In 3 years of being on T only 2 people have ever said that they knew before I told them, everyone else has acted like I must be lying or joking (not that it was bad, just they couldn't believe it). I make a lot of friends, create a lot of allies and get a hell of a lot of respect from people. I'm a very hard person to dislike because I'm calm, rational, open and kind.

I would clam similarly, though I find there are a few folks who are SO against "what I'm doing" that it trumps whatever they might have otherwise known of me.

Even if it takes a bit that combination tends to win out in the end of any argument. I'm the one people come back to days later just to say that they are so impressed with how I acted when they acted like a jerk and we become friends.

I think the in your face tactic is over rated and I think a lot of people who want to live that way don't realize how they can be a positive force inside our community AND outside of it at the same time without drawing negative attention to themselves or our community.

Well said, and I agree.