Transgeder tolerant faiths

[Miss Chelle]

OOOPS!  Sorry Dennis.  *egg on face*

[Jessica]

I guess my main point is that (I feel) that we all need a strong solid belief in a Supreme Being, whether we call Him Great Spirit, God, Allah, Yahweh or any thing else, He is still the same Supreme Being.

I quoted the entire thing so it would be read in context, my question is to the portion in italics.  Why?

Can I still be a good person without that belief?
Can I still be me without that belief?
Can I be a complete person without that belief?

There are many religions that do not necessarily revolve around 'a supreme being'

To understand where you are coming from, why do you feel that 'we all' need to 'believe in a supreme being' ?

[Valerie]

I quoted the entire thing so it would be read in context, my question is to the portion in italics.  Why?

Can I still be a good person without that belief?
Can I still be me without that belief?
Can I be a complete person without that belief?

There are many religions that do not necessarily revolve around 'a supreme being'

To understand where you are coming from, why do you feel that 'we all' need to 'believe in a supreme being' ?

Dear Jess, I will stick my nose in again for a change    To the first 2 questions, a resounding 'YES !'

I am a Christian so I believe in a Supreme Being very heartily and try to live my life according His will.  However it has always been my opinion that God is present in all beings and in Creation itself. 

I also believe that God is the source of all Good--- When I see the good in people, I see God; I interpret the goodness in light of my faith. When I witness the beauty of another person, I believe I am seeing God within them.

It doesn't matter what they believe-- I have seen God in Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Native Americans, Pagans, Atheists, Agnostics, and even in people who believe in God but don't care to associate with Him. 

One day, years ago, I asked my friend and mentor, Barbara, 'why is my Hindu pen-pal Shital more Christian than some Christians that I know?'  And Barbara replied, 'Because he says "yes" to God.' 

The spark of the Divine is in each of us, so in my view, one need not believe in order to be good any more than a sunset needs to believe in order to inspire awe, or a flower needs to believe in order to produce brilliant color. 

You are good and beautiful, Jess, and can be you whether or not you believe in a Higher Power. 

Your final question, can you be a complete person without such a belief...that I am not quite sure how to answer. I think that can only be left up to your own subjective experience.  I know that before I recognized God in my life, I didn't notice anything missing, but once I was awakened to Him, there was no turning back. 

It's like that with many situations, however...it's hard to know that something is or might be missing until you've experienced it.  A child who has never tasted chocolate or seen the color yellow cannot reasonably recognize a void...once she sees yellow or tastes the candy, and determines whether or not she likes it, only then can she determine whether it is good and whether she can be complete without it. 

Plato's Allegory of the Cave is an interesting little piece you may want to read.... 

In peace,
Valerie

[Cassandra]

Plato's Allegory of the Cave is an interesting little piece you may want to read.... 

You wouldn't be taking philosophy this semester by any chance now would you Valerie? 

Cassie

[Valerie]

Nopers, not this time, Cass    Actually I took philosophy in '97 or '98 before I put school on hiatus to move to Florida. 

A little over a year ago for an English class I had to read the Allegory, and write a short paper on it. I was completely at a loss for what to write when the idea literally smacked me in the head in the early morning haze upon waking.

And so I compared the Allegory with my then-recent revelation that I need to divorce my husband.  I just found the paper again more recently, and I'm glad I kept it as it's one of those things that I am prone to reflect on many years from now and share with others who might be half-interested. 

Enough for now....    Will somebody get us back on topic please?   

XO,
Valerie

[Miss Chelle]

Jessica, I guess the only explaination I can give is that I personally believe that there is a Supreme Being that rules over all whether any one believes or not.  It is of the opinion of those much more learned than I that we as human beings are geneticly predisposed to seek out and worship a Supreme Being.  It's like our genes are preprogrammed to do so.  In my heart that just feels truthful and right so this is what I do.  It is also noted by the same learned ones that those who do believe tend to live longer and more healthful lives.  I'm not trying to stir up a hornet's nest here, just sharing an alternate viewpoint.  If I have upset anyone, I appologize.  No matter what your belief, I wish you all a long and healthful life.

Miss Chelle

[Jessica]

*smiles*  First of all, Welcome to Susans Miss Chelle!

Secondly, you have not upset anyone, and there is absolutely no need to apologize.  I just wanted to know why you felt the way you did based on the way you phrased the statement.

I was curious about the 'we all (meaning everyone) need (must have, not 'a want', can not live without) a strong belief in a Supreme Being' ... part; that piqued my interest and I wanted to know why you felt that everyone needs that belief.

In a sense, to me, that statement as it applies to me, is exactly equivalent to someone saying: "You (because I am part of 'everyone') need to believe in a Supreme Being."  So, I just thought I would ask the natural question, "Why do you feel that way?"

You're second Post has the following, "I personally believe that there is a Supreme Being that rules over all whether any one believes or not"  That is your personal belief, so, I guess I have to ask, why does that mean, "We all need to believe in a Supreme Being" ?

Lets take it off such a serious topic such as religion to give an example.

I absolutely LOVE Spicy Food and I mean, the Spicier the Better.  That doesn't mean that all of my friends do, or that I expect them to, or that everyone should love spicy food.

Differences.  That's what makes the world go around. If we were all the same and believed the same, what a boring place this would be and it already sucks badly enough as it is

*hugs*

edited to add:
I have much more to say on this:

...we as human beings are geneticly predisposed to seek out and worship a Supreme Being.

but for now, I'll leave that alone.

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Valerie,

I agree with you whole-heartedly. 




Jessica

[Teri Anne]

I've read, with interest, the various threads.  Melissa's post, quoting various odd-by-today's-standards edicts, was especially educational.  I wonder, given "stoning" people to death and threatening burning body parts in Hell, just how "religious" or even morally nice, certain religions are.  Some probably wonder if "transgender tolerant faiths" is an oxymoron -- a pairing of opposites.  I realize that the bible and other religious documents are the culture of religion but reading it in 2006, I wonder if organized religions have ever considered excluding the blatantly immoral parts of such literature.  Cities and countries sometimes have archaic laws on the books (two men sleeping together, for example).  These governmental entities pass laws to get rid of such things.  Pardon my ignorance - I'm no expert on religiion - but have religions made attempts to disavow certain laws in their own books?  It'd also be nice if ambiguous statements in the bible (things that can be interpreted a number of ways) were clarified.

Doing so would seemingly make religion a more tolerant place.

Teri Anne

[stephanie_craxford]

"transgender tolerant faiths" is an oxymoron

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There you go... you answered your own question personally I don't think there is such a thing as a "transgendered tolerant faith", as far as I'm concerned if you don't abide by their rules you can't be a member of their club.  It seems that they all need a special clause to take our kind into account.  May be that's too simplistic a take on things but it's how I see things.  Yes, as I mentioned previously there are those who welcome us with open arms but I'm still sceptical.

Steph

[jamesBrine]

hello!
   I want to say that I am happy that this thread has had some new posts recently. I want to apologize in advance if I offend anyone with my words.
   Steph you say that "if you don't abide by their rules you can't be a member of their club." I just want to say that many times I do not follow the rules of my church but i'm not rejected. The only time that I feel rejected is when I think i'm being rejected and therefore I reject myself. No one follows all the rules but people belong.
  I can't begin to imagine what it is like for a transgendered person to walk into a church. I would almost garuntee people are going to "make you feel uncomfortable" because people are not used to Transgenders. I would say patience and time on both ends and people will become tolerant of Transgenders. One explanation I want to offer is the self fulfulling prophecy:
1)we predicte something will happen
2)we act in according to our prediction
3)what we think was going to happen comes to pass

Agian my apologies if I have offened anyone in what I said.
Take care and God bless
James

[Leigh]

http://www.247gay.com/article.cfm?section=66&id=8318

[Valerie]

Nice detective work, Leigh .. thanks for the article... 

Incidentally, for those who haven't seen it, the other day I posted links to many of the GLBT- affirming denominational websites in another thread: 

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,2198.0.html

Valerie

[Danielegrl]

What i have read about jesus and what above speaks to me is to get a personal connection to above. It also tells me not to judge another. With those two basics how could anyone go to a building and be a part of a church. Jesus says the riches we can carry with us to the next world are in our hearts. I am sure we have our own riches. I am sure we have our own personal connection. It doesn't sound possible to have a church where everyone agrees. It does sound possible to have all the people of the world having their own personal connection where they have their own riches that are individual to them. And i am sure they wouldn't judge another because they would have their own personal spiritual connection to above.

Would you judge me for not being a part of a group who goes to a church? Would you all agree at that church? If you wouldn't agree then you would be a hodge podge of individual people hanging together with varying ideologies. Now that isn't bad but could anyone be the leader over the other? Whose personal connection to above is more right than anothers?

The only realistic thing is a place where there is no leaders and each person believes what they believe and come and go when they want and well i do that already myself. And for myself i would rather help somebody than to sit in a phewwww waving my hands in the air .. i would feel as if i was a fake doing it for attention..

So with the above i do not go to churches and sit in phewwwwwsss but i choose to just reach out to the stranger in need as jesus did when he spoke of the good samaratan.

I judge you not for what you do i judge myself and my own heart and the reasons if i was to go to a church.. It would be a place of socializing and well that to me isn't very spiritual.. I would rather include all my socializing to be as guided by above as would happen during any hour of any day as i follow in my spiritual path.