I have a possibly offensive question

[Everyone]

If someone was born intersex, and their parents didn't give them the surgery to correct it at birth, what would the gender on their birth certificate say? Would it mark both, or would it say whichever one the parents chose it to say? I'm sorry for such an offensive question. ^^ I don't mean to be rude or anything. I just met someone recently who said that she was born intersex, and that her birth certificate said she was male and female. But she's known to lie a lot, so I thought that I should ask here.

She lives in California, but was born in Arkansas, in case that is important to know.

Once again, I'm sorry if I offended anyone. ^^

[xxUltraModLadyxx]

hi, i'm not too sure. i think surgery on intersexed infants is now very discouraged. she may be right that her birth certificate is marked down as both, but it's relatively recently that surgery is not being done in these cases, as it is not medically necessary. it's slowly but surely becoming viewed as a variation rather than an abnormality that should be fixed. usually, doctors will assign sex by the external genitalia. in your friends case, it sounds like she has an ambigous genitalia that was impossible to determine as male or female. it rarely happens, but it doesn't make it necessary to "correct."

[ToriJo]

I don't know the specific laws or such.

I know four "out" intersexed people, and know what three of their birth certificates say.

Person A - lives as female now, birth certificate had a blank space for sex.  Born quite a while ago.

Person B - lives as intersexed (neither male or female), birth certificate said "F".

Person C - lives as female, birth certificate said "F".  She's the only person I know who was raised as the gender they identify with as an adult.

I think it depends on the intersexed condition and it's expression, and what the doctor feels like doing as far as genetic testing and such.  I'd guess that generally he will make his best guess.

I don't know of any law that dictates how a doctor would determine sex for a birth certificate - like sex determination for adults, it just isn't defined so it's open to interpretation.

[Lisbeth]

It depends on the rules of the state where the child is born, but I assume it will be whatever the doctor decides.

[MarinaM]

(sorry for butting in) One of the two intersexed people I know personally was issued two birth certificates indicating male on one, female on the other, was raised as neither, adopted a male identity because of pressure from her father, and is now in the process of transition to female.

[Northern Jane]

Doctors STILL think they can determine a baby's gender by their gonads and the degree of virilization of the genitalia and STILL rush to surgery to "correct" abnormal genitalia believing that 'normal appearing' genitals and assigning a sex  will make for a normal, healthy baby boy or girl. Of course there is a bias toward assigning male if possible (since most doctors are men) but in many cases the infant's genitals may not be sufficiently masculinized to create passable male parts and in those cases the baby will be made female.

I know a LOT of Intersex people and I have never yet heard of a case where someone was assigned something other than M or F on their birth certificate. In adult life there are a few who have had their birth certificates amended to the opposite sex, to I or just left blank.

[kate durcal]

I tough that the new policy was to list the child as "ambiguous" or "neither" I will look into it.

[Cindy]

Doctors STILL think they can determine a baby's gender by their gonads and the degree of virilization of the genitalia and STILL rush to surgery to "correct" abnormal genitalia believing that 'normal appearing' genitals and assigning a sex  will make for a normal, healthy baby boy or girl. Of course there is a bias toward assigning male if possible (since most doctors are men) but in many cases the infant's genitals may not be sufficiently masculinized to create passable male parts and in those cases the baby will be made female.

I know a LOT of Intersex people and I have never yet heard of a case where someone was assigned something other than M or F on their birth certificate. In adult life there are a few who have had their birth certificates amended to the opposite sex, to I or just left blank.

Not sure about this. I do know that where I work 'intersexed' babies are karyotyped. It's easy to do now a days and there are not a lot of cases. I'm not sure how decisions are made after that but I would have the obvious in obvious cases.

Cindy

[Northern Jane]

Not sure about this. I do know that where I work 'intersexed' babies are karyotyped. It's easy to do now a days and there are not a lot of cases. I'm not sure how decisions are made after that but I would have the obvious in obvious cases.

Cindy

My conversations with a number of the leading clinicians treating Intersex children were all within the last 2 years and some of the doctors are considered to be "leaders in the field" so I assume that what they preach is what they practice (sad to say!) I was most disappointed by the smugness of the attitudes, but then this is the same part of the country in which the "David Reimer case" occurred so I should have expected the John Money attitude to be well entrenched

[Cindy]

Hi Jane

I'm in Adelaide, South Australia, our population base is probably smaller but our care rate is high (no offence meant), so our care of duty for newborns may be easier to control. However considering the well known life long problems with incorrect diagnosis of intersexed children I would have thought this would be a priority, and a relatively cheap one. This may also be a country to country problem. Nearly all pregnant woman in Australia are screened for genetic defects in their foetus and are 'allowed' to  abort the foetus. I'm sorry for  the high lights but  I have no idea why any country would be negative to abortion of  terminal genetic defects foetal cells.  I'll ride the tide

Cindy