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Advice please

Started by lovesickheart, December 17, 2006, 05:24:23 PM

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lovesickheart

(Edited out details due to getting some great advice.)

Thanks for your replies everyone - I think I've managed to set my mind straight(er) on this in terms of what I should do.

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cindianna_jones

Lovesick,

I can only go on what you have said.  It's hard to know exactly was said and how it came across.  So I will take your side in this converesation assuming that you have been perfectly level headed about the whole thing (and my hat is off to you if you have been able to do this).

1) Tell your SO of your love and support.

2) Express your commitment but that your SO has to pay for the expenses as he/she would have to do living alone.  I can't imagine that anyone would expect YOU to cover these costs.  I find that totally irresponsible.

3) You need to establish how your SO feels about you.  I left mine because I did love her and did not want to have to make her live through any more of the hell she was going through over this. There are others who leave because they need to explore other relationships or were never fully committed in the first place.

4) You and your SO need to talk about these things.  If he/she is not willing to sit down with you and discuss the problems and how to resolve them... then you need to dump him/her.  I can't see how a relationship, especially one with this difficulty, will survive without discussion.  It is only fair to you.

My heart goes out to you doll.  I admire you for your willingness to work through a life shattering event such as this.  Your SO should certainly be expected to help you out.  And if that is not possible, as difficult as it may seem, you need to move on.

Cindi
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Elizabeth

Hi Lovesick,

Most transsexuals would be glad to have a SO who was willing to stay under almost any conditions. Your desire to see this through is a good thing. There is a difference between support and being used. It is not your job to support your SO and help pay for transitioning expenses. If they choose not to work, this is not your problem, they would have to pay if you breakup anyway. Besides, if she is just staying with you for financial support, this is a loser.

I can't help but feel you are being used because you are so in love with this person. I could be wrong, but that is how it seems to me. Your SO may find you were a wealth of support if perhaps you let a breakup stand for a while.

Love always,
Elizabeth
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Gill

Hello Lovesick:

Welcome.  My name is Gill and I am Steph's SO. We have been married for 33 years and Steph has just completed her SRS.

I am no counsellor and can only relate to my own experiences and what worked for me.

Here is what I am hearing from you.  Your partner quit their job to proceed with transition, you changed your job and are looking for a second job to help out with them transitioning.  Your partner balks at your request to get a part-time job to help out with the expenses.  This goes on and on.  What you are asking is not unreasonable in any relationship (transitioning aside).  This person is a partner in the relationship and should be contributing both financially and emotionally.  What I am hearing is emotional blackmail "if you don't support me 100%  right now then I'm out of here", am I wrong?  I understand that you want to support this person but it's a two way street, give and take.  What worked for Steph and me was that we talk about the goals, what it would take to get there, what we had to do to get there.  This is a long emotional, financial road that you will be travelling.  I stress the financial, big time.  Though I know many on the group may not agree with me but I can only relate my experiences.  This will drain your finances, drain your emotions and bring to you to the brink of just wanting to run away.  To be able to handle those kind of stresses you have to have a plan, a time line, that is realistic for both of you.  Don't put up with the emotional blackmail, that's what a very manipulative pesron would do to get anything they want.  That type of relationship is not healthy.

Talk to this person, come up with a game plan that both of you can live with.  Take this step by step.  Know that doing this step by step will not be fast enough for your partner, but your willingness to talk and come up with a game plan will show this person that you indeed support them.  Hope this helps.  Keep talking to your partner and if you need to bounce things off of us do not hesitate to talk to us.

Gill
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Kim

Hello Lovesick,
  Whew, what a tangled bit o' mess you find yourself in. My first impression when I read your post is the same as some others felt, that you are trying and are communicating but there is a break down in there somewhere. Kudos for being supportive, or trying to be. I am an IS married to a beautiful supportive wife which makes my transition somewhat easier, though society still scares me. I talk openly to my wife about the transitioning and her feelings throughout. One thing I learned is her motto makes good sense-'baby steps and time'. In other words, she don't want to see me rush my transition and make some stupid irreversible mistakes which is the time side of it and as for baby steps, it just means to go through at a pace we can both adjust to each step of the journey.
   My wife is adjusting to the idea of having an actual woman to love. Even thoough I haven't had SRS or even HRT my body is that of a woman with one testis and a penis ( :P). She's adjusting slowly and now her main concern is society with how they view not just me but her as well. The best part is we have each other to support. We are still going to renew our vows in 2 years time on our 10th anniversary.
    The biggest item is that makes our marriage work through this is open communication. She says exactly how she feels and hopes to see as do I.
     The next big item that helps it work is respect. I respect that she needs time to adjust to each step and she respects nature wants me to be the woman I am.
     Another thing that helps us is the fact we both see no purpose to labels since society does all that crap any way. We know we love each other and we are both woman in this so no more need be said about it in our relationship.
     Your So is tossing a great oppurtunity out the window by walking away if you really are able to work with her through her transition and love her as much as before if not more.
      One thing a lot of us who are TG have come to realize is that SRS is an ultimate dream but the expense puts it out of reach for a lot of us and we learn to accept that. We have 3 kids and good pays coming in but in reality my kids' meals are by far more important than SRS ever will be. And I am sure the US is the same as up here in Canada in that now a days you need 2 incomes to make ends meet when you have a family.
     A good beginning for the 2 of you may be counselling with a pro in the TG field. Just an idea. Good luck,
                                  Kim   :angel:
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Kimberly

QuoteWould being with a loving partner be enough for someone having gone through a transition, or would sexual exploits be an important part of the validation process?
In my option this varies to much between people to give an accurate answer to.  In short, "It depends."

QuoteAm I damaging my SO's transition by being honest about the fact that my level of attraction will decrease for them?
I do not think so. Speaking from experience the relationship I was in when I fell apart was terminated pretty much entirely because my (former) fiancée is heterosexual. I think what happened for the best, unpleasant thought it may be.

QuoteIf so, is it a "make it or break it" deal?
In my opinion a relationship has no place for anything but complete honesty.
So in my opinion, No, being honest won't (or rather shouldn't if the SO has a clue) break a relationship.

I am an oddball though...

QuoteDo they need to find someone homosexual - the way they identify - to be with?)
Overall everyone might be happier in the end, but again it depends entirely upon the people.

QuoteI realize fully that the answers will vary to these questions from person to person, and that no one can really answer these questions except the person I should be asking, but like I said, I have great fear of saying the wrong thing now.
It is better to say the wrong thing than walk on egg-shells.

In my opinion, of course.


*curtsey*
Very much luck to you.
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Bob

Humm,  to be short and sweet here is hard.... sounds like your SO is being a jurk
in the first place and not thinking about you at all...( a very male trate I might add) ....its hard for me to defend Your SO's actions... he/she just seams to drag you through one pile of stuff after another.... but unfortionately I guess we all do that..... Personally, I think you'ed be better off without'em
but if your intent on keeping this relationship going here's what I'ed do....
.... Put all your cards on the table.... lay it out very planely your love for them, your support, even your limited financial ability... hold nothing back
....as Beth said ... COMUNICATION is the key here !
...Now you must realise that your honnesty will probly not be equilly shared by your SO.... anotherwords Your SO may well try to lay all their cards on the table
but they have so many cards in their hands they may miss a few... they can't keep track of all of them...if you know what I mean...
...
I commend your efforts ! and wish you the best of luck. its not easy when someone drops the bomb on you, but if you love them you will work it out...
but remember, that love must be on both sides... and to be honnest it sounds a bit doubtfull from your SO... otherwize they would have been more reluctant to move out in the first place.
  You cannot make this relationship last by yourself. if your the only one trying here , just simply cut your losses and get out. but make sure of that ... don't just "SUSPECT" it...  the phrase "Do you Love Me" is extreamily hard to answer in the negitive... not everyone has the currage and honnesty to answer that honnestly.... so with the lack of "Words" to go by, you will have to judge by actions....and that gets very thin very fast, standing on its own.
....
 You Know your SO better than anyone... "Look them in the eye and ask them Do You LOVE Me ?"  if the answer is No , then stop fighting the inevitable.
if its Yes, then Work on it... start comunicateing more.....
...
 You sound like a Very Reasonable minded person... You SO may not be thinking REASONABLE !  keep it in mind ! .... you are worried about money... they probly are not....  you are going to have to hold back on the rains with this one and you already know that.... EXPLAIN THAT TO THEM !
 Money doesn't grow on trees, to want to transision you cannot ignore that fact.   to do so is self defeating.....
  Your SO's lack of understanding of your reasoning isa bad sign... but not at all uncommon.... so you must comunicate !
....
Hope that helps...
Bob.......

 
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lovesickheart

Thanks everyone, I appreciate the help.  I've tried to be as honest as I can be through this, and all of this has been communicated to my SO as best I can.

At this point, I guess I just need to focus on trying to get information out of them so that I can know exactly where I stand.
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Julie Marie

One of the factors that seems to be common in relationships involving TGs is denial.  And it happens on both sides.  But eventually reality becomes unbearable and the denial ends.  At that point a decision, based on the facts, not hopes, is made.  

Every relationship needs to have balance in order to survive.  There has to be give and take, or as I prefer to look at, give and give, coming from both sides.  Do you see that in your present relationship?

We all have an idea of what our future will be like.  We have certain needs that have to be fulfilled.  Are you getting what you need right now?  Is your SO?  Do you see you will be getting what you need in the future?  It seems there's a lot of give on your side but not so much on the other side.  Are you comfortable with this imbalance?  Can you live with things the way they are right now?  Do you see them getting better or worse?  (Be honest with yourself!)

In trying to help we can ask questions, give advice, tell our own personal stories.  But this all comes from our perspective, not yours.  Only you can make the decision about what is right for you.  Re-read what you wrote.  Is this the life you want to live?  Step back and look at your life from the eyes of another person.  Do you see this relationship working?  Once you have honestly answered that you will be better prepared to take the next step.

Julie
When you judge others, you do not define them, you define yourself.
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Bob

Very Well said  Julie !
Bravo !

Bob......

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lovesickheart

Julie,

I have no doubts as to what I would like to see happen.  I apologize if I wasn't clear about that, I was just looking for ideas on *how* to make it happen.
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Melissa

Regarding which side gives more, keep in mind that a TS may have been giving a lot up to the point of transition by not being themselves.  Now that they have finally decided to be themselves, it may seem selfish for the person to transition if you look at the contrast, but this person has given so much, they are now in a deficit with how much they have given and are only working to set it back to neutral.

Melissa
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Julie Marie

Quote from: lovesickheart on December 18, 2006, 06:40:09 PMJulie,

I have no doubts as to what I would like to see happen.  I apologize if I wasn't clear about that, I was just looking for ideas on *how* to make it happen.

Okay, so you know what you want.  What does your SO want?  If it's not the same thing you can't make it happen.  You can't force or manipulate or convince someone to be someone they are not.  It will only lead to more problems, if not now then in the future.  It may be time to let go and move on.  

Melissa said it well, once a TS accepts who they are they need to live their life in a way that's natural to them and not be pressured into being what everyone around them wants them to be.  If you find yourself needing to make things happen just to keep you happy, it's time to consider ending the relationship.

Julie
When you judge others, you do not define them, you define yourself.
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lovesickheart

???

Julie,

As I've said before, the only thing I'm looking to do is to be as supportive as possible and find a way to make the relationship work.  I'm not trying to convince them to be something different.  I'm trying to get opinions on how I can improve my ability to make them happy.

I'm a little stunned and hurt, honestly.  I've come here trying to gain perspective on how I can best show my acceptance, not how I can change the other person...  I've not accused them of selfishness, I've turned inward and asked for advice on how else I can show support...  I see the relationship working, I just wanted the forum's input on how *I* could be doing better...
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Kim

In all honesty you are doing all you can in this relationship dear. Support and understanding is all she can ask of you as well as agreeing to let her transition and according to your posts you have done all that. You need to find out now what she expects of you. Therein lays the mystery we all can't put a finger on. I mean you've given and given and she still walks away? Why? Once she gives you an honest answer then you can start looking as to how to make it work. She may not be able to answer you face to face so one option is ask her to go to a private area/room and write it down and give it to you. Seems impersonal but at least all will come open and you will know if you can mend your relationship or not.
    We are all grasping at straws trying to help you but since we do not know the mystery thorn here we are all just trying to help you the best we can. Best of luck dear,
                                       Kim  :angel:
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lovesickheart

Thanks Kim, I guess I'll keep looking for that mystery thorn myself.  I really appreciate it!   :D
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Kim

and please do not be afraid to lean on us to help you when you fig it out  :angel:
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Bob

How ?
  well, here is what I'ed do... and make no mistake its probly not the best method in the world. but here goes....
  I'ed greet the SO home after a hard days work, eat dinner and then take the remote control and turn off the TV , the music what ever .... sit in their lap and say ... OK.... I want to talk to you....  WHAT do you want of me ?
am I just your meal ticket, or do you realy love me ? I gott'a know ! no jokes now, this is serious !   and look into their eyes....
.....
if you already know the answer to this question than you can skip the intro. and  jump into the good stuff.... what can I do for you?, when can I do it, and WHY ?
the why is very important as you need to know WHY to understand what they are thinking! ....
tell them you want to be supportive but don't have the foggiest idea on HOW to be... you never incountered this before so they are going to have to tell you !
.....
....
..
   As we have said before "COMUNICATION IS THE KEY"  I don't care how you do it but DO IT ! comunicate ! stop the guesswork ! Know what your doing and why and you will both be better off ! ....
if by chance they say "I don't know!"  then you at least have learned that much. and chances are they are just as clueless about it as you are... that gives you a chance to learn togather ! .... which is great... and supportive !
... you want to help.... first you need to know how to help... and that depends on the person... so talk to them and find out !
Comunication, Comunication, COMUNICATION !

...
My 2 coppers!
Bob........

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Peggiann

Lovesickheart,

I truely want to say thank you for posting here and trusting in us here at Susan's to lend an ear and allthough you may have not been expecting some of the responses you received, that is the risk one takes when asking advise of others. The written word is wonderful for communicating what we feel if we also take into concideration the readers of the word may interpit what we have written with a different twist than what we may have intended.

I have to say I have always a different and some here have said deeper sense of what one posting may be saying. I did not take it that your partner was selfish or unloving nor even irresponsible. You did not share what he had been like prior, but I took into consideration your charactor that comes through what you have written. You don't strike me as a person that would have been attracted to someone that had a track record in the relationship of being any of those things, and a looser never enter my mind. Instead I thought of what a struggle your loved one must be going through. I thought of the crippling depression that immobilizes some from being able to work. I thought of the fear one might also be crippled with freezing them, preventing them from doing the things they need or want to do. Depression is a very real condition that many and even most TG/TS I venture to say go through.

I even have wonder if your partners actions are because if you were to part it would be sparing you of all the uglies that sociaty may inflict...to spare you having to make comprimizes and being short changed as you partner may feel is what will happen if you stay together. Your partner may also be testing to see how strong you are and if you will stand by your committment to your relationship through waht ever is dished out. OUt of love for you your partner may think a favor is being done for you if you spit and go in seperate ways.

Some where here in the Wikki Pages on this site I remember reading the charactoristic traits and personalities that most TG/TS have incommon. I think if you look this artichle up you will be enlightened at some of the actions displayed by your partner. It may explain and give you comfort in the understanding of your partner more. With this understanding I think you will find more insite as to how to assist and support your partners decissions in various areas of your life and relationship.

I wonder if you would be able to think back of how relaxed your relationship might have been before the sharing of the desires to transition were made known. If you can think of how comfortable you were with your partners daily choice of dress and attire. Now that your partner dresses all the time in the chosen attire common to his chosen transitioning life gender, your reaction should be as comfortable as before if you are truely supportive. Try not to make a overly asserted effort to comment trying to asure your partner you accept. If you notice more now than you used to notice then it may come across not genuine and fake support. This may be what your partner is resisting. If your partner is attired in something you have seen many times then don't make a big deal of it. When it's a new outfit...your partner is no different than you...They would probably welcome the compliment. Read your partners posture. When they present themselves in such a way that screams look at me, notice me and how I look, then by all means be aware and don't choose or pick your words carefully. If it's natural it will roll off your tongue easily before you even know it with out a second thought. Same as hair do's.

Relax and snuggle as you watch TV. If you had candle light dinners before do them again. What ever you had before in your daily lives have it again. Don't always be discussing the issues that surround being TG/TS. It has an air of insincerity. It become a feeling of too formal, forced, to in your face. Don't get me wrong there come a time when everything about the path to transitioning to the chosen gender will have to be discussed. It all has an impact on both of you. But to think it needs to all be done at once is really unrealistic and very testing and egsausting to both of you. That is why the little steps have been mentioned by others is really a better way to go. Others have mention help of Therapists... this is sound advice because it is very well documented that couples rarely make it through a long life together when facing a life where one is TG/TS and Transitioning. Even the ones that have counseling or see a Therapist have struggles. Those that make it do so because both parties in the relationship have great communication skills and have deep truely unconditional love that sees them through accpompanied with the ability to comprimize fairly with a ballance with both parties well being and interests at the fore front.

I have said this before in posts here at Susan's Be Fair, Firm and Freindly to yourself and your partner and allow your partner to be the same and expect nothing less from them or yourself.

Others mentioned time too. This also is important. With time you will become more comfortable seeing your partner in the chosen attire. With time you'll become more at ease with being in public together as the person your partner has chosen to display. With time the love and bonding will grow deeper and stronger if allowed to and will become a life thread to your relationship.

I feel any relationship that keeps score and has a tally board of what each participant is putting forth is a relationship that is on the road to ruins. What is put forth comes because it is needed from whom ever is putting forth at the time. When one member of the relationship is unable to contribute 110% then the other participant picks up and takes over the load. This will shift back and forth from participant to participant if it is truely a realtionship of fairness and comprimizes and love.

I make that statement because I see you partner at a point that it's your time to step up and stretch to the lengths required to help this chosen path for transition to happen. At some point it will shift again and the tuggs and pulls and needs from you will be lessoned as your partner becomes able to contribute what ever level of contribution again. The bonds that grow from this shift and exchange of contribution to the relationship is filled wil deep love and graditude that will never be forgotten. Remember I shared with you in a Personal message some thing that might help with the financial part of this burdon you feel. Hopefully both of you can participate in that.

You asked "Would being with a loving partner be enough for someone having gone through a transition, or would sexual exploits be an important part of the validation process?" Again time will tell. But I believe in a relationship where the partners are married and have commited to each other a vow of sanctity it will be up to the couple to explore how best to satisfy the intimacy issues of their relationship. In other posts I have touch on the use of adult toys that help with this. I don't beleive unless it is what is wished by both parties of the relationship that a sex life have to end. Time will give you room and opportunity to find solutions that help you comprimize in this department also. In think in answer to, "Do they need to find someone homosexual - the way they identify - to be with?" If you have found acceptible solutions for your intimate relationship no this does not have to be the case. I have heard form so many and also from our therapist that sexual orientation doesn't necessarally change with transition ans SRS. It has not changed in my own S.O. preforence. So I guess again it's the depth of love and commitment and desire for fullfillment from that individual in the solutions for intimacy a couple have found that can take care of this issue too, to some degree.

You also asked,"Am I damaging my SO's transition by being honest about the fact that my level of attraction will decrease for them?" I think honesty is the most important thing in your relationship in the intimate feelings area. There may be other things you find more attractive after the transition than you think you will at this time. There's that word time again. It is so important to all of this. As changes take place in your partner and you grow more comfortable with them you may be surprised at what will be attractive and what won't. The bottom line is what does the attraction part have to do with it. If you are determind to make your relationship work you will learn to see past need for attraction and all feelings and actions will come from the place the were supposed to all along...LOVE. Your other following comment...well question was, "If so, is it a "make it or break it" deal?" I think a relationship is what the participants make of it. If they can comprimize...communicate...forgivness of past hurts and transgressions, and have time on their side then I think it doesn't have to be a break it deal.

As many have already said you are a rare and special individual to want to stick by and be supportive. Even more so for searching out ways "to do it better", as you put it.

I think you'll find the answers you seek here and at the least have others to sound out feeling with.

I hope I was at least a little helpful,
Smiles,
Peggiann




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