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Transgender woman Denied Access To Fitting Room

Started by tinkerbell, December 18, 2006, 06:27:15 PM

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Melissa

Quote from: HelenW on December 28, 2006, 10:33:30 PM
If Mr Wobbly and his two friends are still there how can I prove I'm NOT a cross dresser?
I can flash them my license. ;D

Melissa
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Shana A

QuoteI can flash them my license.

Not everyone can easily afford or obtain proper documentation. If someone is presenting as female, she should be able to use the fitting or rest room.

zythyra
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken." Oscar Wilde


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Melissa

Another option is a "carry letter" from a therapist.  If you don't have documentation at all, then you are taking a big risk using that restroom.  Personally though, I can't imagine why fitting rooms would be as big of a deal.  If you are willing to take that risk and you get called out, then you shouldn't complain just because you didn't bother to get documentation.  The fact is that transitioning is expensive.

Melissa
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Sheila

I was not confuse at who we were all talking about. I did make a comment early on about the woman in the movie theater, but all the rest were about the article. I think I made myself perfectly clear on that. Tell me Steph, did you use the womans facilities before your surgery and did you have your gender marker changed? Just like some of the others have said, some don't have the money to get therapy and some of the things done that need to be done. Granted, I think that if there is a will then there is a way. I believe Liegh has said that many times, money should not be the excuse for the surgery and anything else that needs to be done. Also, in that article it didn't say that this person was stripped searched or if she had ID to prove hers self. She is Transgendered and has lived her life, at least the last 3 years, as a female. I know of another lady who has lived her life as a female without surgery and she is really famous and my mind can't produce the name right now. I'm sure some of you know her, I know Robyn knows her personally.
  Well, enough of this, I will step off the orange crate and not talk about this anymore. I feel like I was back in the room with other people at a HRC meeting. Where people want to tell you that you are just making all of this up. At least I'm not facing them now.
Sheila

Virginia is her name, will think of her last name in a few minutes
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Steph

Sheila I think that I've upset you and I'm really sorry if I did, it was not my intent.  Yes I did use the female facilities and I also used the female change rooms at my gym before surgery, but not until I passed.

My problem with all this is that I don't agree that just because someone wants to look like a woman/man that they should be afforded the privileges of using that genders facilities no matter how long they had been doing it (note that I said look like a woman, a TS is different).  Am I being closed minded, narrow minded, some would say yes but I don't think I am, I guess it comes down to "should I have to share personal space with a guy in a dress".

Steph
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Catherine

Quote from: Steph on December 29, 2006, 12:40:21 PM
Sheila I think that I've upset you and I'm really sorry if I did, it was not my intent.  Yes I did use the female facilities and I also used the female change rooms at my gym before surgery, but not until I passed.

My problem with all this is that I don't agree that just because someone wants to look like a woman/man that they should be afforded the privileges of using that genders facilities no matter how long they had been doing it (note that I said look like a woman, a TS is different).  Am I being closed minded, narrow minded, some would say yes but I don't think I am, I guess it comes down to "should I have to share personal space with a guy in a dress".

Steph

I think you are missing the point. How can the average person tell whether someone is TransGender or a Crossdresser ?? Either you allow everyone presenting as female access or you dont.

You cannot differentiate between a crossdresser and a preop. Without some sort of documentation there is really no difference between them. Sure the Transgender feels different about who they are but how are you going to be able to tell ?

I do not think showing a license/letter is the answer either it is demeaning how many women have to show theirs to enter a changing room ? You are just setting us up for a load of discrimination.

Also sharing personal space with a man in a dress is somthing others have done with you even though inside you are female. There are a lot of differnet types of people that I would prefer not to share my space with but at the end of the day it is something you have to put up with



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Melissa

Quote from: Catherine on December 29, 2006, 12:48:34 PM
I do not think showing a license/letter is the answer either it is demeaning how many women have to show theirs to enter a changing room ? You are just setting us up for a load of discrimination.
I'm only talking about if you get called out on it.  I had a carry letter and now I have my driver's license.  I always carry some kin dof documentation.  However, I have NEVER had to show it to anybody for using a restroom or changing room.  It's more like backup.

Melissa
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Steph

Quote from: Catherine on December 29, 2006, 12:48:34 PM
Quote from: Steph on December 29, 2006, 12:40:21 PM
Sheila I think that I've upset you and I'm really sorry if I did, it was not my intent.  Yes I did use the female facilities and I also used the female change rooms at my gym before surgery, but not until I passed.

My problem with all this is that I don't agree that just because someone wants to look like a woman/man that they should be afforded the privileges of using that genders facilities no matter how long they had been doing it (note that I said look like a woman, a TS is different).  Am I being closed minded, narrow minded, some would say yes but I don't think I am, I guess it comes down to "should I have to share personal space with a guy in a dress".

Steph

I think you are missing the point. How can the average person tell whether someone is TransGender or a Crossdresser ?? Either you allow everyone presenting as female access or you dont.

I agree, they can't.  I just don't agree that a person who is a cross-dresser should be afforded the same rights.  Generally speaking the laws as they are written now allow for areas that are female or male only, and everyone who uses these facilities is assumed to be the gender they present as.  If a person is discovered to be a cross-dresser, or TV then I believe they should be restricted from those facilities.

QuoteYou cannot differentiate between a crossdresser and a preop. Without some sort of documentation there is really no difference between them. Sure the Transgender feels different about who they are but how are you going to be able to tell ?

I'm afraid that there are many instances where you can tell.

QuoteI do not think showing a license/letter is the answer either it is demeaning how many women have to show theirs to enter a changing room ? You are just setting us up for a load of discrimination.

I don't see where I said that.  I have never, ever advocated the carrying of papers, documents, licenses, or any other form of documentation to prove who and or what I am, and I would never support such a notion.

QuoteAlso sharing personal space with a man in a dress is somthing others have done with you even though inside you are female. There are a lot of differnet types of people that I would prefer not to share my space with but at the end of the day it is something you have to put up with

It is something that I don't have to put up with but something I accept.

Steph
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angelsgirl

I think that there is a large misconception about the safety of women's restrooms and fitting rooms.  Many women think the women's room will be a safe place for them when, in fact, it's not. There is more abuse against women in the women's room than anyone would imagine. Also, the more bystanders, the less likely that anyone will step up and do something about it. So, letting the transgendered use this so-called "sacred space" isn't going to make any more of a difference than if they're not allowed to use it.

Women are a heck of a lot more capable of fighting back then they even think they are. I can't tell you how many people I've scared off without even committing assault! And I'm probably one of the least scary looking people you'll meet (until I summon my Women's Wrath technique!  >:D)

Anyways, I've said it once and I'll say it again: The best solution for this would be the avaiability of single-use gender neutral restrooms. Not TRANSGENDER restrooms, because who in their right mind would out themselves like that?!  But I myself would use a unisex restroom if it's single use, because I like the extra privacy (and it helps if you have a shy bladder!)  If somebody doesn't pass or just doesn't feel comfortable choosing a gender-specific facility, well, they can use that room and not have unwanted attention for it. 

When the "family bathroom" is unavailable, I usually accompany Jocelyn to women's room. It's seems like if other women see me allowing it, they're okay with it.  And I usually act as "look out" for getting her into a stall unnoticed and letting her know when the coast is clear to come out of the stall. We do try to avoid needing the bathroom, but it's not always that easy. She tries not to drink anything so that she won't have to go, but then if I have to go, I bring her with me because I won't leave her alone in public (and she doesn't want to be left alone in public).  So, it's a bit of work but nothing really bad has happened so far. 
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SusanKay140

Please, in the final analysis, It is a human right to have reasonable accommodation for bodily relief.  We all have to do it, and have to work with what accommodations exist.  That has nothing to do with clothes trying on, toes out peeing, shaving, exhibitionism, planned or impulse assault, or any other activity or display besides urinating and general primping.   

I have an obligation not to violate any-one's space or to not deliberately offend others in using this right by being gender appropriate in appearance and behavior; everyone has an obligation not to violate mine.

Susan Kay
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Ricki

I think this cake has been filled, layered, iced and sliced, and all but eaten...
Yum!
Ricki
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tinkerbell

Quote from: Catherine on December 29, 2006, 12:48:34 PM

You cannot differentiate between a crossdresser and a preop. Without some sort of documentation there is really no difference between them.



??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???  ??? ???

Sorry Catherine, but I disagree.  I could give a few examples but I'm afraid that wouldn't be appropriate for me to do here in these forums.  However, something tells me that you know what they are and what I am talking about.


tinkerbell :icon_chick:
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