Hateful landlord.

[pebbles]

I'm not sure if this should go here or in the "Discrimination" forum or if it should even go into the "legal" forum So I guess it should go here.

My landlord who lives with me has a problem with me... a REALLY big problem with me.

He an uber-christian and absolutely hates Transsexuals, Evolutionary Biologists, and Atheists Of whitch I check all of the boxes.

When he asked these questions I told him honestly and respectfully about what I am and what I belive... He wasn't pleased and mentioned that he'd have to think about this. After mentioning scripture and a whole lot of junk about me having a dark negative energy that pervades the house keeping him awake at night and he wasn't comfortobal with me around, I was friendly pragmatic and as accomodating as I could be (I like to think I'm pretty diplomatic) Offering to dress down (Not that I dress up) or avoid him. He refused.

It was yesterday he comes upto me and tells me that he's throwing me out and if any of the other housemates I'm with (Who have been friendly to me) have a problem they are gone too, I was not pleased upset and angry now a short shouting match ensues and I say that he's prejudice and this is hateful discrimination, he says it's his house and it's him or me and he will fight tooth and nail to be sure its not him and blames me and the others for not telling him before arriving. He has to leave to sort out a contract in another property he owns but not before citing alot of scripture to justify himself.
When he leaves I break down in tears.
When he gets back We have another discussion it's abit more peaceful where we share parts of our past he talks about various things saying I remind him of an occultists asks me about my religious background (Partly in reference to the scarring on my body he thought I was into devil worship and so on) Tells me I need jesus and so on. (amusingly discribes himself as a tolorent laid back guy) Blah ¬.¬ I remain calm. I breifly mention to him "Even if I had faith how do you think you and your god look from my eyes?"
I explain some of my past and how I came to realize I was transsexual explained how I think it's origin is biological how it was painful and lonley ect He sympathizes for like a second and eventually confesses this sudden spurt of hostility was due to a dream he had about me he refused to discribe it simply saying it was "Messed up and disgusting" O.o I kno right? And after thinking about it agrees to give it another 2 weeks to think about it.

This guy is completely unpredictable and honestly quite frightning to be around I'm still trying my best to act warm and friendly around him... and I'm certain that him kicking out tenants like that is grossly illegal (we have a contract) Although he claims the contract isn't valid. We pay rent and we stay if it's invalid then why dose he honour the clauses within it?

I discussed the matter with the other housemates/tenants they were like "WTF?!" I told them that I don't expect or want them to get involved or risk themselves they hardly know me but they seem pretty insistant on following me never-the-less saying they couldn't in good faith pay money to a person who did such a thing knowing what had happened.

Even if it is illegal and I could win such a fight in court It's not somthing I need right now u.u uni are already pummeling me into the dirt with work.
Anyway I live in the UK I'm pretty sure that kicking me out at this juncture would count as harassment and Discrimination. But I'm not 100% sure, can anyone clarify or give me the name of some decent lawyers in the UK who deal with this kind of matter and I should goto if he has another funny turn and I can't talk him down from his zealous fury that time.

[Janet_Girl]

If you have valid proof as in witnesses, you may wish to pursue it.  But do you really want to live in a place with such a hater?

I personally would move on.  Contract or no.  But it is your choice.  Here in the states, renters have some rights and often fight eviction.  I have never been evicted from anywhere, but I do know that it is fightable.

[Izumi]

Not sure about british law, but yeah in the US, its a pretty clear cut case with witnesses.  Its over and done, a landlord kicks you out because of that, $$$$$$$$$$ is coming your way. 

BTW i can quote scripture too, to support being TS, people often use the bible as a crutch for their own failings, they take only pieces that support their goals and ideas, but ignore the rest.  When you look at the big picture in the book, its a simple message that has nothing to do with being TS or not.

I am pretty sure with how it seems over there their are probably laws to support you should he want to kick you out.  Have him state in writing why he is evicting you if he can, and if you have a lease even better.  Although you might not want to pursue it in court the man is causing a disruption to your life due to discrimination, that disruption needs be compensated for.  Obviously you cant live there anymore whether you win or lose the case so he needs to fork over funds that make your move easy for you, lost wages at work, security deposit, portion of the rent, and possibly the security deposit on the new place you rent, and just general distress caused by the whole thing..  Thats some big $$$$.  It will also teach him a lesson on bigotry.   

[pebbles]

Okay cool next time he wants to talk to me about that I will state that I want the others to be there aswell as they feel it effects them too. Thanks guys.

[spacial]

Pebbles.

You have rights.

Firstly, do you have any evidence at all that you've always paid your rent, receipts, witnesses?

Secondly, you must aks your fellow tennants to support you.

Approach these people: http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/eviction

You might also approach the Citizens Advice beaureo, but my experience with them is they tend to waste a lot of time.

You might also approach the local social work department.

You will be making a mistake if you hope this matter will go away. You have a right to live as you choose, within the law.

Addition.

This is from a site of solicitors representing landlords.

1. You will only be entitled to bring court proceedings to evict your tenant if you have served the proper possession notice first and waited until the notice period has expired. (There are a few exceptions but these are rare).

2. Note that it is a criminal offence to evict a tenant other than by obtaining a court order for possession in the County Court, and then (if the tenant still fails to vacate) by using the County Court bailiffs. Even asking them to leave if you have not followed the proper procedure can be considered harassment.

http://www.landlordlaw.co.uk/pagedetail.ihtml?id=8293&page=non

[pebbles]

Thanks for the link spacial however after looking at that I'm nearly certain that this guy is a complete dick who has really screwed everyone over by the laws of the UK.


The guy living there (who hates me) acts on the legal behalf of the actual landlord who've I've never seen and is subletting the house to us a house he occupies.

I'm nearly certain he's done this intentionally.
I'm not sure but I'm pretty certain that counts me and all my housemates as "Excluded occupiers" excluded because we're Excluded from the housing act... Ie Basically we have no rights at all... AT ALL.

All he has to do is give verbal notice and a period of 1 week and any one of us can be evicted. I've not got the contract with me right now but I wouldn't be suprised if it supports this >.<
If this is true it dosen't matter what the contract we have says he could change the rent rate at will if he so desired.

Great nice to know you have no security in housing these days great job UK law for loopholes ¬.¬ seriously what a sleezy fat cock.

My only hope for any reconcilliation is if I can get him to explain his reasons for evicting me infront of the others and they back me up resulting in me begin able to get him on discriminatory harassment charges. But there's no guarentee of that all I have to do is be caught on my own at any point during the year and I'm stuffed my word against his. Even if I ask for others to be around he might refuse.

[lilacwoman]

I think the fact that you are rent paying tenants gives you quite a lot of rights.

go see the local housing officer of the council especially if they are helping any of you with rent.

and as what he is doing is basically Hate Crime you should call your neighbourhood police team in.

if your rent is paid up and you are keeping the place as clean as when you moved in you have  a very strong case.

[spacial]

You may be right Pebbles.

http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/renting_and_leasehold/sharing_and_subletting/lodgers

http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/renting_and_leasehold/sharing_and_subletting/subtenants

If you're sharing facilities with the guy who has the tennency then you are most likely an excluded tennent.

Might be time to look for somewhere else

[pebbles]

Well I was just talking to the housemates they hate him varying levels of hostility but all seemed angrier at him than I was.
Turns out he was quite open about his transphobic harassment. They however are accepting, and it really upset alot of them to hear it. Thus they said they will gladly recite what he told them if I wanto goto court.

They were discussing how they don't think they can endure that bigotry until the end of the term and might want to move anyway.

Earlier today one of the housemates went to the citizens advise beuro because we have a contract but the landlord claims it's illgitamate for various reasons. (Wasn't signed correctly, I'm not bound by it Blah Blah)
However the citizens beuro told her that because we signed and handed him the contract prior to the date of us moving and he didn't say that anything was wrong with the contract in he IS legally bound to the contract that he signed in agreement and the clauses within in it it states reasons for why we can be evicted (non-paying rent, Vandalism, Abandonment ect ect) and none of them cover manner of dress or medical conditions and say that the landlord must not unduely harass tennants and MUST give written reason as to eviction... Win.

When she confronted him with this he said to her "I will just find a way around it." This is true he can. Begin aware of numerous housing violations (Ie, my room is legally too small to be inhabited thus he could get rid of me that way, but it would cost him cuz the council will pull the house apart)

The discussion shifted about how we might be able to antagonize him into evicting us on grounds of gender discrimination basically everyone was going to Crossdress Guys wear makeup, and girls wear guy clothes and drawn on beards intentionally force him to blitz out. Then we can all sue him for gender identity discrimination.

It sounds intresting and funny were just woundering how we can get out of this without loosing our desposit. It's good when your not alone

[spacial]

I'm pretty certain that, if he tries to claim your room is too small, since you have a binding contract, he will be obligated to provide you with a suitable alternative.

I know that, in other contexts, where regulations exist for the protection of an individual, they cannot sign these away.

I'm also pretty sure that if you can demonstrate harrassment, give you have willing witnesses, he might be liable for any consequences, including any unexpected failures you might get in your exams.

But I'm not trying to suggest ways for you to antogonise him, rather suggest that this contract puts you in a very strong position.

I would strongly suggest you all simply make it clear to this fellow that if he doesn't stop harrassing you or others, the consequences could be quite bad. But that if he does stop, you will all be prepared to let the matter lie.

[Hermione01]

How awful for you to be living with a hater, I couldn't think of anything worse.  He definitely has issues as I think you are aware of what they are. 
I hope he is not a violent type because if he is I suggest not staying there any longer than you have to. 
Your flatmates are exceptional to rally round and defend your rights, that is one good thing that has come out of this.
Stay strong cause this guy is wrong and needs to be shown everybody has rights!

[rejennyrated]

Right, as it happens I am a private landlord. For nearly 20 years I have been making money from renting out property so I know the law in this area pretty well. At the height of our game Alison and I owned something like 8 rental properties, so we know the drill backwards. So I apologise for a long and detailed post, but I hope it will at least be helpful.

If it is his house and he is living there then he is an owner occupier and basically you sadly wont have a legal leg to stand on because renting rooms in your "PRINCIPLE PRIVATE RESIDENCE" - ie the place which is your own home - trumps every other right that a tenant would otherwise have.

If on the other hand the property is let out in its entirity, without the landlord actually living there, or is subdivided into self contained units in any way then the law of landlord and tenant, as defined under the assured shorthold tenancy act will apply.

Please note that having a lock on your door and a private sink in your room would constitute division of the property into separate bedsits - so it is quite possible that you are still ok even if he does live there!

The law of landlord and tenant provides for statutory notice periods and indeed a procedure which must be followed before a possession order is obtained. To throw you out without such an order during the assured period of your tenancy agreement would constitute a breach of contract and you would certainly win an action taken against him for compensation.

Sadly however there is now an unhelpful new complication in the form of the so called equality act 2010, which bizarrely makes pre GRC Transsexuals the one group in society for which it is legal to discriminate in the provision of certain goods and services IF and only if the person so doing can prove that the presence of such a person would genuinely cause distress to other people using the same service. Whether the provision of accomodation would constitute such a situation is, I think very dubious, but it might need to be tested in court to be sure.

When the act was drafted the amendment was inevitably tabled by some hardline religious types and their original idea was that it would apply to situations like rape counseling where the presence of someone who still had male organs might be a cause for distress - however inevitably it was worded very loosely so the law of unintended consequences MAY well result and the upshot is that it might soon be open season on all trans-people in all sorts of situation. I sincerely hope not - but there it is.

If you want to PM with any specific questions then as an experience Landlord I can possibly give you some additional ammunition, otherwise I would commend to you the advice given by others in this thread particularly in relation to insisting that if this is to be raised then you MUST have at least one other person from the other tenants there to see fair play.

The bottom line is that sadly if it IS genuinely his own home, is not subdivided, and he actually lives there, you really should start to look for a new place immediately, because I have an excellent legal precedent for something like this when I threw out a lodger for unacceptable behavior towards Alison. The upshot is that I have a legal opinion from a leading QC which advises that within my own occupied home I can invite in or throw out whom so ever I like without giving reason or notice.

In fact it is precisely for that very reason that I do not allow any lodger we may have to put a lock on their door. It means that if they step out of line they only get one warning!

Sorry if any of that isn't what you hoped for - but it is better to be prepared.

Oh and finally - you have my sympathy, of course. But hopefully you don't need me to tell you that!

It is horrible that this is happening, and please don't misunderstand my rather bleak answer for lack of sympathy. However I do think it is better than you know the truth and prepare accordingly rather than my saying - oh it will all be fine - when maybe it may not.

[spacial]

Given what Jenny has said, you might be safer looking for a new place anyway.

Keep us posted about any news Pebbles.

[rejennyrated]

Update.

Just re-read your posts and realised that your landlord may be sub-letting. Sorry - it was late last night  This indeed does add an additional element to the situation, although paradoxically it may help slightly, because it means that his behaviour is actually governed by the terms of his own lease.

To some extent this depends on his lease. If this is a long-term lease such as 999 or indeed 99 years then inf effect although he is not the freehold owner the law will treat him as an owner occupier anyway. If on the other hand his tenancy is itself a shorthold variety then he has less rights over the property and would be obliged to follow the law as it related to the terms of his own lease.

On the slightly unhelpful side, if his lease prohibits sub-letting, and most shorter leases do, then although you are screwed so is he! - because if you let the original landlord know that he was sub letting and has thus breached the terms of his lease there is very good chance that he will also be thrown out. This could therefore be a good threat to make... if its is a short-hold situation tell him to shut up or you will contact the true property owner.

Also on the positive, if he is permitted to sub-let then the terms of any sub-let that he may make are subject to the terms of his own lease. In this case the true owner of the property MAY have included a clause in his lease about resolving disputes with sub tenants. We have done something like that once or twice which would then mean that he is obligated to follow an agreed procedure for resolution of disputes and could not therefore simply throw you out without notice.

Finally, he says he is a christian, you do not say what sort, but if he is one of the hard-line evangelical types then IF things go wrong you should certainly consider making a BIG stink for him in your local press. On the downside it does involve outing yourself very publically, but on the upside someone reading of his despicable behaviour may come to your rescue, and indeed he may find himself a bit of a pariah inc certain quarters for his deeply unchristian attitude, and flagrant abuse of a vulnerable person undergoing recognised medical treatment!

I do hope that is at least of some help. My general advice however would be that if possible you should look at a voluntary move in the not too distant future as this situation sounds somewhat precarious and subject to the whims of a religious nutter (and I use the word advisedly).

[pebbles]

:/ We didn't know he was going to be living with us. He was just there his presence wasn't mentioned to us anywhere the only clue I had was when I handed over the contract I noticed he'd sat himself in the largest room in the house (Whitch messed us up because in our group we'd already arranged who was getting what room... The married couple would get the largest and smallest rooms using one as closet space living together me and the other guy would get medium rooms)

I currently have the smallest room now I surrendered it to the couple as a gesture of goodwill so that the couple can have a whole floor to themselves giving them both medium rooms and extra medium room became avalible because I belive he threw out a muslim man who was going to continue living there for another year in a similar dispute.

All rooms but mine have locks (mine appears to have been drilled out) however none of us have keys... My room is also by legal definition is too small to be considered a bedroom.
We have no idea what the agreement he as with the original landlord is however they are close friends hence why he acts on his behalf. He discussed a conversation he had with him about me (Because the christian guy thought I was Female but was confused by my name) how the true landlord laughed jokingly (Cuz ->-bleeped-<-s are funny!) but the guy living with us didn't laugh he then told him "try and deal with it but if you can't, Do what you gotta do." Giving him discretion in the matter :/

He's not a member of any specific church calling all of the churches corrupt. He has his own views, Whitch are pretty extreme and hostile to homosexuals and transsexuals as an adjunct of and be belives in "Evil energies" and demonic possession. He's hostile to most other non-christian religions aswell. He has a deep fear about the occult and I've not asked him but I don't imagne he would be anything but outragious in responce to paganism or druids.

When he asked me about my sexuallity I just said I was Asexual (Not strictly true ) I just wanted to avoid further antagonism.

He's never been violent or even threatened to be violent. So that's somthing.

[rejennyrated]

As you are an exceptionally smart girl I am sure you don't need me to tell you that if this came down to law then reported conversations would not constitute evidence. He may THINK he has discretion, but in legal terms unless your contract states that he is managing your tenancy then strictly speaking he doesn't.

Again he may be a friend of the landlord, but he may not. I can claim to be a friend of The Archbishop of Canterbury, HRH the Earl of Wessex, Joanna Lumley, Caroline Cossey, and all manner of other minor celebrities and persons of influence. It doesn't necessarily mean that I actually am though! (although as it happens I am acquainted with most of them to some limited extent.)

My point is that just because somebody says something it does not mean it is true. Further if you were unaware that this guy was going to live there it would seem to me that the goal posts have been materially moved. The bottom line is a court would go by what is written in your contract, and if he is not the owner he cannot suddenly turn you out unless he can prove that have breached the terms of that contract.

Further since the owner does not live there himself in person, he is NOT occupying the property as his principle private residence and so he cannot pass the right to summary eviction on to this other guy, because he doesn't have it either! So once again, unless you have breached your tenancy agreement in some material way you simply cannot legally be thrown out without going through due process.

Shame about the door locks though, that weakens your position slightly.

The more I hear about this though, the more I think the long and short of this is still that moving as soon as you can genuinely is going to be the best course.

As someone who is undergoing formally supervised medical treatment you could be classed as vulnerable and therefore I would expect that your university accommodation office would prioritise helping you to find somewhere.

[Cindy Stephens]

Just a piece of info for some of the American posters.  Landlords who have fewer than a certain number of units don't come under the Federal Fair Housing laws.  If you own and rent 3 or fewer single family homes, have a house with 4 or fewer families living there, etc. it doesn't apply.  Now, local and/or state statutes may, but it is a complicated issue and I saw a number of blanket statements that may or may not be accurate.

[Melody Maia]

This won't help with your housing situation Pebbles, but I find this person's extreme views and claim of a dream about you interesting. Often times the most virulent opponents of homosexual and trans people are homosexual or trans themselves. They hate this part of themselves so they act out by hating those around them. It is possible that your presence is causing him great internal conflict (I really wonder what happened in that dream!), thus he wants you gone ASAP.

[pebbles]

Okay guys here is an update.

I asked The guy were living with to confirm if he is acting with the legal power of landlord or on behalf of the actual landlord.

He said he was... In knowledge of this piece of info we (All of us as housemates) Decided we would move out. We put a deposit down on a new place And said we were leaving to the man who claimed was our landlord.

At first he acted like "yeah that's cool" and we discussed how much notice we intended to give him as we want to be out by the 18th of November he said "whatever your contract states" and were thinking the contract was invalid because we would be excluded occupiers, So we informed the actual landlord of this. and today we've all gotten interesting and panicked messages from said ACTUAL landlord.

Hi *Me + housemates*,

May I start by expressing my sincerest apologies for this situation.

Although *pesudo-landlord* had expressed his concerns to me I did explain to him
that your (4's) comfort as new tenants was my/the company's top
priority. I had no idea at all that you all felt or had indeed been
given verbal notice. I must also point out that the only method of
fair and legal notice being given with any authority would be in
Writing from me/AJW Investments Ltd NOT an independent.

Therefore, I must apologise wholeheartedly for your perception that
one of your group have been singled out in this way. I must also point
out that *Pesudo-landlords* opinions do not reflect mine or those of AJW
Investments Ltd as a corporate entity in any way.

If you would allow me to do so I would ask you to afford me the
opportunity to wholly rectify this situation and arrange for you,
*housemates* to remain in and quietly enjoy the house in
complete comfort on your own. I would prefer this to be the case.
Please let me know and I will make it so as a matter of urgency.

Apologies once again.

Kind regards
*Landlord*

So were having an interesting discussion tonight when everyone gets back what to do as we might loose deposit money on either property no matter what we do. :/ As we've got a deposit on the new place and thought the contract we had was invalid.

Then again having the big fat bigot kicked out would be delicious too... I would build a small shrine to our victory. And we would have celebrations every couple of months!

[Janet_Girl]

That is very interesting.

If you would allow me to do so I would ask you to afford me the
opportunity to wholly rectify this situation and arrange for you,
*housemates* to remain in and quietly enjoy the house in
complete comfort on your own. I would prefer this to be the case.
Please let me know and I will make it so as a matter of urgency.

Now you can basically make your demands know, and if you wish to stay there, let the actual landlord know what it is you find so objectionable.  And if you will loss that deposit, he should refund it to you.