Transgender community face hate speech from Lesbian and Gay people

[Shana A]

Transgender community face hate speech from Lesbian and Gay people.

by Mia Nikasimo on October 22, 2010

http://www.blacklooks.org/2010/10/transgender-community-face-hate-speech-from-lesbian-and-gay-people/

Transphobia is not something that just happens because of heteronormativity. As we gradually make our way through the end of the first decade of the 21st century this much becomes clear; homonormativity is just as virulent as its sibling. A scenario between two South African activists -one a transsexual man and the other, a lesbian- during which the lesbian activist said, "once born a woman you will die a woman" and admits to saying so is typical of transphobic slur. The difference here is she admitted to casting the aspersion. Usually you are met with a barrage of denials which is symptomatic of bully cultures. The problem we face now is whether we like it or not, this is happing in our communities.

In the UK the situation is no better. Early this morning, I was mis-gendered by a gay man on a bus journey. I ignored his slight but he continued sucking up to his female friend. When I was about to get off he followed me and deliberately swung his bag striking my bottom and apologised. I let it go again, but I was furiously upset by these actions. At the height of his hypocrisy, even after apologising, he turned back to his female friend laughing out loud and said, 'didn't I tell you he's a man?' and his transphobia was shamefully without doubt.

[Mrs Erocse]

I am sorry anybody was subject to such ludicrous  behaviour. I am always amazed at the audacity and stupidity of so many people. It is enough to be subject to immature rude behaviour such as this in grade school. I would think adults would know they are rediculous. Unfortunately I learned, adulthood does not mean mature, or wise or even nice. Trite as I feel the golden rule may seem it is simply a law all should live by. " Treat others as you would like to be treated!"

[spacial]

I discovered from this experience is that its time we exposed the LGB's rank double standards and advocate for proactive empowerment of the TI position in societies worldwide.

Our problem appears to emanate from the alliance between the gays and feminists.

Feminists can incorporate lesbians easily. Feminists can co-opt the gays because they are seen as non-threatening. But feminists seek to create an elite of western women, who dominate.

Feminists dislike transgendered people because we celebrate the differences. Transgendered men appear to have been ignored. Rarely does the likes of Julie Birchel launch any attack on transgendered men. The ire of the feminists is toward transgendered women and those who seek to follow.

Because almost invariably, transgendered women seek the very feminine appearance that some feminists claim is tantamount to FGM.

The gays have done very well out of the feminists. Their support has helped them to win the social acceptance they are entitled to.

But the price has been that the gays have thrown us to the wolves. Stonewall UK has disassociated itself from transgendered people even to the extent of repeatedly nominating those who attack us, for special recognition.

The gays have made a serious mistake. A parrallel might be the small number of Asian people who submitted to Apartheid, turning their backs on the black population, only to discover they were never really equal at all. (Fortunately, in that instance, most Asians didn't).

If the transgendered people don't wake up, we could be in for serious problems.

The importance of the Nikki Araguz case can never be overestimated.

[Bam]

I think the original reason for LGBT was strength in numbers but i think it has gotten to the point that we are of no use to them now so it may be time to see how strong we are on our own.
I believe that we are strong enough now to stand on our own,in the U.S. the Govt. has added TG's to the hate crimes by ourselves!!!

[spacial]

I understand that the first people to fight back at Stonewall were transsexuals. The gays only joined after.

But hey, at least we're good for something.

This was illustrated during the 1973 Stonewall rally when, moments after Barbara Gittings exuberantly praised the diversity of the crowd, feminist activist Jean O'Leary protested what she perceived as the mocking of women by ->-bleeped-<-s and drag queens in attendance. During a speech by O'Leary, in which she claimed that drag queens made fun of women for entertainment value and profit, Sylvia Rivera and Lee Brewster jumped on the stage and shouted "You go to bars because of what drag queens did for you, and these bitches tell us to quit being ourselves!"[126] Both the drag queens and lesbian feminists in attendance left in disgust.[127]

O'Leary also worked in the early 1970s to exclude ->-bleeped-<-s from gay rights issues because she felt that rights for ->-bleeped-<-s would be too difficult to attain. Sylvia Rivera left gay activism in the 1970s to work on issues for transgender people and ->-bleeped-<-s. The initial disagreements between participants in the movements, however, often evolved after further reflection. O'Leary later regretted her stance against the drag queens attending in 1973: "Looking back, I find this so embarrassing because my views have changed so much since then. I would never pick on a ->-bleeped-<- now."[127] "It was horrible. How could I work to exclude ->-bleeped-<-s and at the same time criticize the feminists who were doing their best back in those days to exclude lesbians?"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stonewall_riots#Legacy

[Julie Marie]

One of my earliest outings as me was to a gay bar.  The bartender and many of the patrons were great but as I became a regular I found a lot of gay guys hated TGs.  Walk into a lesbian bar and it's usually worse.  I talked to one who told me until he met me he thought we were all freaks and gave the GLB community a bad name.  He apologized for being judgmental.  That was good but there are still a lot of GLBs who aren't so willing to open their eyes.

Look at the first round of ENDA.  Openly gay senator Barney Frank said the T must be omitted.  "We'll come back and get you later."  Sure!  I don't care how you slice it, changing your gender is taboo, no matter how fringe you are.

[V M]

I noticed that when I went to a gay bar that I would frequent years ago... When I went in guy mode several of the guys would try to hit on me and the bar tenders would make me good drinks...

But when I went there dressed it was a different story... Dirty looks, crappy drinks and service

It really kind of surprised me... I've also met gay guys that were totally supportive though

But whether it' politics, religion or sub cultures, there are always going to be division among folks

[spacial]

I may be wrong, or partly right, but I get the impression that, for many gays and lesbians, they have set their sights of a movement. They seek to establish themselves as unique and different from the hetrosexual society. Out and Proud.

I realise I do continually denigate the feminists but I honestly see them as ominous. They seem to be seeking the reconstruction of th most basic elements of humanity. They attack the (hetrosexual) relationships between men and women as being oppressive and imposed, by men. They are essentially a westen movement. Paying lipservice to the problems of non-western women, but effectively cutting themselves from them and even attempting to undermine the efforts against FGM by associating it with western fashion.

The gays and lesbians, I believe, find it difficult to identify with the integrationist notions of transgenderd people. Almost all of us seek to live as we are, normal lives, without fuss. Few of us seek to be openly identified as trans.

Hre in the UK, Stonewall UK, while it appears to be patient with transgendred people, is clearly behaving with some hostiity. It seems unlikely they would honour a journalist who, while praising gays, attacked Jews, or blacks.

But I suggest, the significant factor here is the Labour Party, to which the feminists and Stonewall have alligned themselves. The leader of Stonewall is a Labour activist. Like all such activists, his first priority is to Labour. His organisation is part of the Labour struggle, where their priorities will be achieved with a Labour victory.

In the US, the situaton doesn't, on the face of it, appear quite so bleak. Most gay organisations call themselves LGBT, it seems.

But we remain the weak cousins there. How many have given more than token support to Nikki Araguz as she struggles for the justice she clearly deserves?

[Octavianus]

In my limited experience I luckaly haven't encountered such a situation with Roosmarijn.
This week we were invited to the birthday of an old friend of mine at which also 2 gay men were present. The atmosphere was light and the subject of neighbors came up. Apparently one woman has a neighbor of which she still doesn't know the sex or gender after living a couple months next door. The subject smoothly changed over to transsexuals which made Roos visibly uncomfortable as she was just sipping her tea.
There are indeed a lot of misunderstandings on this subject as was proven by the comments of several guests. But instead of changing the subject, this was a good opportunity to talk about it and perhaps try to change their opinions. What really struck me was that one of the gay men mentioned that he did not understand how a man could just choose to become a woman during life (completely disregarding ftm's). Especially when the results are mostly hideous. As a reply I could only ask him when he decided to be attracted to men, and if he chose to be a man or if he just is one. I mentioned that he has probably met several transgendered people in his life but that he just doesn't realize it.
In the end they were fairly open to the subject and willing to learn and understand. But stil, how is it that homosexuals can look down on transgendered people? I was under the impression they would be more open to differences than other people are.

[spacial]

was that one of the gay men mentioned that he did not understand how a man could just choose to become a woman during life (completely disregarding ftm's). Especially when the results are mostly hideous. As a reply I could only ask him when he decided to be attracted to men, and if he chose to be a man or if he just is one. I mentioned that he has probably met several transgendered people in his life but that he just doesn't realize it.

I've also noticed this attitude. It demonstrates how well the gay community has become established. but equally demonstrates that they are now falling victim to the same prejudices that affected them so badly in the past.

[Hermione01]

IMO, some gay guys have one or both problems with ts women.
Firstly, they cannot possibly conceive the idea of being a woman and therefore can't understand anyone else transitioning.  Me=You mentality. 

Secondly, it's just outright jealousy. There are some gay guys who are mainly attracted to straight guys and can't stand their own, so in their weird logic, a ts woman transitions so she can get a straight guy and this makes their blood boil.  It's the 'breaking the rules/tribe to get straight guy' mentality

Generally though, bigotry and ignorance can be found anywhere, it just hurts more when it's dealt by someone who probably should know better.

[rite_of_inversion]

I'm inclined to think that it's because sexual orientation and gender are two different phenomena that have gotten erroneously lumped together.
As an FtM on another site I go to says, sexual orientation is who you want to go to bed with, gender is who you want to go to bed as.
Just because someone has overcome their own prejudice about their own sexual orientation does not mean they've overcome any other socially-taught prejudice about anything else.
For instance, the gay community here (it's a southern U.S. city) has bars that are mostly African-American, and others that are almost exclusively white in patronage.

I'm given to understand the S&M scenes and swinger's scenes also break down along color lines here-and have seen an African-American swinger's party being held at a local hotel (it looked like lots of fun from the outside ).  I heard an interracial couple of whom both are bisexual complain about their experience at a local swinger's club in a local radio interview. There was an issue of her African descent and his interest in guys...and with that particular club, neither was okay.

So even the outcasts outcast each other, I guess? can't teach a sneech?