Being Too Happy to Be More Alike To the Target Gender In a Negative Way ?

[A]

Today, a bus driver (who probably needed sleep, but anyway), called me miss (this is not mean in French) after seeing me from close-up and looking at me in the eyes, while I've not started transition (still sad to say), I had a three-day beard, and I was wearing male clothes (well, my grey winter hat and black mittens are women's, but they're not all that feminine, and I WAS wearing a bag like a purse, but it's a black grocery bag) and never apologized or anything. I was happy. But that's not the point.

I started thinking about whether I should be happy to be happy with so little, and concluded I shouldn't have worried about it. Eventually, I wondered about more (yeah, bus rides are long even for short distances here). I remembered how I was almost kinda happy when I was told I was too perfectionist, how I sometimes manipulated people, or other stereotypically feminine qualities that can be regarded as bad.

The thing is, I'm kind of starting to feel like an hypocrite bitch for being happy about drawbacks I have. I think I might be needing to be comforted or told what to do here.

But I'd also like to ask about you - nothing forces you to say that however : How do you feel about it ? Did you experience similar mixed feelings ? How did/do you deal with them ?

MTFs as well as FTMs are invited to post, as it can probably apply equally to both of our groups. Just different characteristics for FTMs, I guess.

[A]

Evil double post.

I see Nero read this then left without replying, and I think Nero has often replied to me, so I feel I should clarify this : the fact I invite MTFs and FTMs to post doesn't mean I won't be happy with posts from people from other groups ! (even though we're all really a big spectrum-based group, but let's not get on these technicalities).

[Nero]

Evil double post.

I see Nero read this then left without replying, and I think Nero has often replied to me, so I feel I should clarify this : the fact I invite MTFs and FTMs to post doesn't mean I won't be happy with posts from people from other groups ! (even though we're all really a big spectrum-based group, but let's not get on these technicalities).

I just wanted to think about it first. 

[A]

Oh. I thought you thought I was rejecting you .

[Hermione01]

Hi A, is there any reason why you would name someone who has read your post and not replied? 

About your first post, I think if you are happy why over analyse it?  And if you are being addressed as miss and not dressed or presenting as female, well you can only go up from here on in , so you should be happy. 

Not too keen on the manipulation bit though, that's not a great attribute for either sex IMO and it's not a classic feminine quality either. Plenty of guys as girls manipulate others, whether in business, personal or for general attention seeking. 

[A]

I know, that's why I feel bad.

(But socially, I still think stereotypes describe women as manipulating more than men, who confront each others more directly, I think)

And about Nero, uh, it's just that he's always been like super-fast replying and I thought I'd made him afraid or something.

[Janet_Girl]

You are over analyzing everything, hon.  we tend to do it, because of the hiding for so long.  Just go with it when you get a good comment and drop it when they are not so good.  If you don't you will drive your self nuts.

And there is not much that can scare our Number Two.  He is not only tough, but a cute cuddly bear.

[pebbles]

I'm aware of it especially before I transitioned how compliments hurt and insults feel warm sometimes. Leading to encouraging bad behaviours and discouraging the good.

A friend called me a "Cowardly little girl" Obviously in a negative way yet I felt it as a compliment.
Another female friend described me as having "attractive strong male attributes" I was internally so crushed to hear that I didn't continue the conversation.
An elderly man called me "A true gentleman when he saw me help and old lady with her bags then gave some money to a charity collector." and of course I thought "So that's what I get eh?"

[Griffin]

Oh sure 

"Oh Griffin, you're such a man."  Translation: you're an idiot, you don't get it, you're being a jerk, and I'm pretty sure you farted. 

On the compliment side I've been told that my name is "so pretty!" like a thousand times now haha.  Hoo boy. 

[Darner]

Yes. Apparently leaving your dirty socks around the house is considered very manly, because one day my mum rushed into my room with an annoyed look on her face (she's very perfectionistic) and said: "You're such a disgusting man!" I was happy the whole week but I also felt pathetic for feeling like this ...

[spacial]

When I was in my teens, I had no facial hair but my head hair was long. I was often mistaken for female, mainly by those who were preoccupied with other things, like bus drivers.

I absolutely loved it.

[K8]

We are very vulnerable emotionally when we finally start to show our inner selves, so any small compliments are treasured as validations and any small insults hurt much more.  Especially in the beginning we are very tuned in to how people perceive us, and we take their reactions to us as having much more meaning than we would if we weren't transitioning (or questioning).

We are also looking for validation - from others and from ourselves.  We want to be reassured that we really are women (or men) even though our bodies don't show it.  I don't know about others, but I was well into RLE before I was absolutely sure that I am a woman.  And how I felt after GRS solidified that surety.

As to manipulation being a female trait, it tends to be so in cultures where women are not allowed to assert themselves openly.  When women are permitted to be themselves, they tend to be less manipulative and manipulation is no longer a feminine trait.

- Kate

[spacial]

As to manipulation being a female trait, it tends to be so in cultures where women are not allowed to assert themselves openly.  When women are permitted to be themselves, they tend to be less manipulative and manipulation is no longer a feminine trait.

- Kate

That's an interesting point. I know I'm quite manipulative. Not in a negative way. I do it to survive and get out of situations which otherwise might be a problem.

Can you expand upon it, Kate?

[K8]

That's an interesting point. I know I'm quite manipulative. Not in a negative way. I do it to survive and get out of situations which otherwise might be a problem.

Can you expand upon it, Kate?

This is just something that I've noticed in my travels.  I don't have any literature or studies to back it up.  I believe that people will sometimes use manipulation as a coping mechanism when other avenues are closed to them.  I first noticed it in the American South years ago, when women's roles were more restricted than today (think "Gone With the Wind", although I'm not that old), but I've seen it other places, too.

- Kate

[spacial]

Thank you Kate. I hadn't realised that.

Come to think of it, apart from Africa, where I've only been briefly, most of the societies I've been in have more or less offered women similar status.

France might be a little different. But women tend to be held in such high regard there.

Interesting point.

[Hermione01]

That's an interesting point. I know I'm quite manipulative. Not in a negative way. I do it to survive and get out of situations which otherwise might be a problem.

It is interesting that you find manipulation as either negative or positive? IMO, it is negative and definitely not indicative of being female.     It's a personality trait that is inherent or learned.

[A]

I never said it was indicative of being female but that society deems manipulation as more feminine than masculine.

[spacial]

It is interesting that you find manipulation as either negative or positive? IMO, it is negative and definitely not indicative of being female.     It's a personality trait that is inherent or learned.

I would say negative manipulation is when you seek to gain. Manipulation is essentially, taking advantage of the insecurities and weaknesses of others. I mostly find that massaging other's egos, especially when they are a bit weak in that area.

I also have to say, I'm a total sucker for kids. They can usually manipulate almost anything out of me.

I never said it was indicative of being female but that society deems manipulation as more feminine than masculine.

Could that be because it is generally accepted that women need to manipulate while men can stand up for themselves and be assertive?

[A]

I don't think so. I think it's more about men being more competitive in a way (hormones do this I believe, a bit like in other animals) and more of them having "straight out and simple" personalities for some reason. Or not, I'm not sure whether I get it or not.

[Morgan]

My girlfriend's mom calls me a dirty/ yucky/ stinky/ icky boy all the time because I come to their house after glassblowing class all stinky and sweaty (2400 degree furnaces are rough!) And even though it's an insult, it still makes me feel good. But then again, she also commends me for protecting her daughter like 'a man should'.
I used to get offended when people said I was cute. I know I am, and that I'll probably always be just cute, and I know they mean it as a compliment, but it still hurts. Now though, I'm over it. It doesn't bug me much anymore. But still.

In early transition any kind of validation is welcome, be it negative or positive. I think it's perfectly okay to embrace those instances that make us feel good, whether it's a good or a bad thing.

I agree with both sides here. Manipulation comes from both sides of the board, and though not to everyone, it is seen as a 'woman' thing to do (though I think that stereotype is a little inaccurate, personally. Men are just more up front) But I see manipulation as either bad or good. Everyone does it, whether it's rarely or everyday. The way you describe what you do, A, I don't think it's wrong for you to say you are manipulative, it's pretty normal. You use it for self preservation, which is vital, especially for transgendered folks.

(Made some edits. :x Apparently I'm too tired to type right. Lol.)