MTF Transitioning in your thirties (30's)?

[Ruth Ruthless]

I do my best picture with best angle lighting and makeup I can pull off. In the street nobody ever refers to me female. All male. My gf is the only exception.

[katiej]

I eat well enough to melt the fat off any body with time.

So then why complain about not having curves?  Yes, our skeletal structure doesn't help, but most of what gives women their curves is fat.

I totally understand being jealous of cis women to a certain degree.  We all probably are, but then again I'm also jealous of trans women who still have a full head of hair.  But I've decided that I'm done feeling sorry for myself and being depressed about it.  I can work on the things that are within my power to change and try to learn to live with the things that aren't. 

I don't have enough hair on top to be worth growing it out.  So for now it's finasteride, HRT, minoxodil, and a wig until I can do hair transplants.  However, I can't do anything to change the size of my ribcage.  I'm a size 16 up top and size 12 on bottom.  Most dresses don't look good on me, so I tend to stick with skirts and tops and stay away from skinny jeans. 

[Ruth Ruthless]

I am doing what I can and I imagine I will be able to pass at least part time. But even after going through ffs and ts one day and passing part time, every day when I have to take off the wig it will make me feel like I'm putting on a costume to wear my womanhood while the cis woman gets to wear her womanhood all the time. And as for curves skinny woman have curves too and sure I'm fine not having curves if I get to have a passing female face and hair.

[galaxy]

Its a bit hard for me to explain all me thoughts and feelings in english ...

First of all, nearly every cis-woman's body looks feminine. It has nothing to do with 90-60-90 or with overweight, beeing athletic or something like that. Its only something with the shape and this shapes and structures make a body looking masculine or feminine. I dont know if you understand me ... its a "teamplay" of muscle -structures, skinfat and fat distribution - these 3 componentes makes a body looking masculine/feminine. The bones, hips will give a basic shape - but important is what is coming over the bones!!!

So, as far as i know hormones will change these 3 compontents of muscles, fat and skin(-fat) ... and for my imagination things should looking feminine after some time. Why doesnt it happen to me? Thats my question. Is it only game with your genes. Say your genes to the hormones: No, no ... in these body you can be lazy. We are the genes and say so - it wont work for our master   I cant believe that hormones decide not to react with some other molecules of the body.

And ... hormones cant fix all your problems. Yes, but i expect after having a medical therapy that it will fix only some of my problems. But HRT didnt do so far. I guess all my "effects" came from my antiandrogens - less bodyhair, i lost my acne, softening of the skin ... but thats all. I had no breast growth even with progesterone, no fat distribution, no fuller face, no feminine muscel structure ... estrogens done nothing since that 2 years of HRT. Thats no joke!!!

And having no effects will turn a transition to a "ghost drive" ... every human need little successes to keep positive and happy. Thats human.

[jeni]

First of all, nearly every cis-woman's body looks feminine. It has nothing to do with 90-60-90 or with overweight, beeing athletic or something like that. Its only something with the shape and this shapes and structures make a body looking masculine or feminine. I dont know if you understand me ... its a "teamplay" of muscle -structures, skinfat and fat distribution - these 3 componentes makes a body looking masculine/feminine. The bones, hips will give a basic shape - but important is what is coming over the bones!!!

I think I can understand the frustration with not being happy with your body and being unhappy with the effects (or lack thereof) of HRT, but I think you are being too hard on yourself in a way. Many, and probably most cis women do have a feminine frame to their body and features. It's not "nearly every," though, there are many, many cis women whose shape lacks the "teamplay" of features you describe. This becomes even more pronounced as women age and estrogen levels (etc) drop.

But, imo more importantly, an even larger number of cis women feel miserable about their bodies, whether it's because they are not feminine enough or for myriad other reasons. As frustrating and awful as it can feel to look in the mirror and see a male body reflected back, we're not unique in being unhappy or ashamed of our bodies. Society's expectations of women are cruel and unrealistic.

We all need to be realistic in our expectations, and one real and common possibility is that transition is going to be difficult, that hormones won't have the effects we wish for, etc. It's frustrating, but how we react to that frustration is up to us. Focusing on the "failures" is not going to help anything. It sounds like you have had *some* successes (less body hair, less acne, softer skin). It'd be nice if the list were longer, but everyone cis *or* trans, depends on the luck of the draw when it comes to development. When it becomes clear that the development has done what it's going to do, we can either learn to be happy with what we got, or we can find alternatives to assist nature. But there aren't really any other constructive choices.

[galaxy]

Were making cycles in our discussion ...

When HRT is not changing your body the whole transitions-process makes no sense to me. The task of my transition was a alignment of my body to female facts. I dont except to get a whole full feminine body, a model body or something like that. Thats really impossible - BUT HRT exists to make some alignment and harmonization. Thats the only sense of HRT. When it doesnt happen the whole process of HRT isnt able to take my suffering and makes absolutely no sense.

And what are the options??? Surgery? Should surgeons cut out my masculine muscles and my skinfat? A transition can only exists when hormones work. If not you will keep a man and will keep all your suffering.

[jeni]

And what are the options??? Surgery? Should surgeons cut out my masculine muscles and my skinfat? A transition can only exists when hormones work. If not you will keep a man and will keep all your suffering.

I really don't agree with you at all on these points. I'm sorry that HRT has not done for you what you hoped it would, but for many people it is only one part of the transition. It is not especially difficult to find comfortably transitioned trans folks who span a range of agreement with the "typical" physical characteristics of their identified gender. The same is true of cis folks, albeit perhaps to a lesser degree.

In any case, whether cis or trans, focusing on particular elements of appearance that you *must* have in order to be happy is not, imo, a recipe for long-term happiness. There is no treatment, change, or procedure that is a prerequisite for a successful transition.

[katiej]

And ... hormones cant fix all your problems. Yes, but i expect after having a medical therapy that it will fix only some of my problems. But HRT didnt do so far. I guess all my "effects" came from my antiandrogens - less bodyhair, i lost my acne, softening of the skin ... but thats all. I had no breast growth even with progesterone, no fat distribution, no fuller face, no feminine muscel structure ... estrogens done nothing since that 2 years of HRT. Thats no joke!!!

I'm sorry to hear that you've been so disappointed by your progress on HRT.  I can understand how frustrating that would be.  I've seen your pictures, and you're really pretty.  So it seems to me that you don't need help in that area.

Have you tried talking with a different doctor?  I won't get into specific dosages, but my doctor was telling me that the standard thinking has a very limited range for the dosage of estrogen that they'll prescribe.  But she has seen people get to almost twice that amount to get good results.  Are your estrogen levels in a normal female range?  And have you considered breast augmentation?

I think this whole transition in your 30's thread is about this very issue.  HRT alone is not usually enough for us, like it is for those who transition in their teens and very early 20's.  Our age group usually needs some combination of surgery and tempered expectations. 

[ImagineKate]

Kate, I never even thought about needing to get my Mexican birth certificate changed.  It's hand written in Spanish, so anytime I've needed a birth certificate I've always used my US Certificate of Birth Abroad (which should be easy to change).  Do you actually need to change the original, or is it just a matter of wanting to have it done.

Well, I'm a bit different in that I am a naturalized US citizen. You are a citizen at birth it seems (jus sanguinis).

For me, it is a matter of a few things:

Wanting to have it done.
Wanting to be complete on paper and for there to be no reminder that my birth country recognizes me as a "male"
The option of a passport with the right gender on it. It's a CARICOM passport with free travel and work in the Caribbean. This is especially important as transphobia is rampant in the Caribbean, especially Jamaica. I let my last passport expire. I want to not have to be forced to use smelly, disgusting male restrooms (as required by law!)
Wanting proof of citizenship so I can own land. Noncitizens are limited to 1 acre. We own a few acres, my dad has basically willed it to me. It's kind of funny how things work, someone could use some loophole in the law to rob me of that.
The option of moving back for retirement or whatever else life throws at me.

Top reasons off the top of my head.

All my US docs can be changed easily and without surgery though. That's good enough for a lot of things.

I was born in Trinidad and Tobago. There is no provision to change sex on any official document unless it was an error, such as the clerk put down the wrong one. THAT IS IT. They've been trying to get that changed but the local inter religious organization pushed it back hard and the Prime Minister dropped it. The PM is actually a friend of the family and I know her. I am yet to come out to her but I need to have a heart to heart chat with her. My old MP was a friend of the family too and I worked with him on his campaign. The sad thing is he is embroiled in a sex scandal so he really is kind of neutered.

[galaxy]

I'm sorry to hear that you've been so disappointed by your progress on HRT.  I can understand how frustrating that would be.  I've seen your pictures, and you're really pretty.  So it seems to me that you don't need help in that area.

Have you tried talking with a different doctor?  I won't get into specific dosages, but my doctor was telling me that the standard thinking has a very limited range for the dosage of estrogen that they'll prescribe.  But she has seen people get to almost twice that amount to get good results.  Are your estrogen levels in a normal female range?  And have you considered breast augmentation?

I think this whole transition in your 30's thread is about this very issue.  HRT alone is not usually enough for us, like it is for those who transition in their teens and very early 20's.  Our age group usually needs some combination of surgery and tempered expectations.

Yes, in germany you have to be under supervision of doctor. So, of course, we tried everything in that 2 years (i wrote it a few times in other threads) ... my estrogen is at 100pg/ml - we tried to have more but it doesnt work with pills or gel. Since 3 weeks i get injections now. More soon ...

I had a breast augmentation 3 month ago. I have a Cup A now, because my surgeon was doing mistakes. People only see the money. Now ive to go to a second surgery to correct it. I mean: thats my luck - HRT isnt work, surgery isnt work. After more than 2 years i need a little success for me, but all the things goes wrong. My face is the only thing that is passing ... but it already passed before HRT. People always think HRT was making my face able to pass - thats a really big mistake. I already passed before HRT ...

Thats me 2012, 1 year before HRT

[Violet Bloom]

Were making cycles in our discussion ...

When HRT is not changing your body the whole transitions-process makes no sense to me. The task of my transition was a alignment of my body to female facts. I dont except to get a whole full feminine body, a model body or something like that. Thats really impossible - BUT HRT exists to make some alignment and harmonization. Thats the only sense of HRT. When it doesnt happen the whole process of HRT isnt able to take my suffering and makes absolutely no sense.

And what are the options??? Surgery? Should surgeons cut out my masculine muscles and my skinfat? A transition can only exists when hormones work. If not you will keep a man and will keep all your suffering.

  I went into transition only wanting to feel better - My system was chemically 'eating itself alive' giving me chronic high nerves, frequent nausea and fatigue.  Any physical changes that might occur I would take as a desirable bonus.  I am tall and thin and didn't expect much on the physical side and this has been the case, other than some breast growth (not enough to have to hide at work) and very subtle changes in my face.

  I understand how you feel about a lack of physical change not meeting your hopes because you are as strongly mentally invested in that outcome as I was with feeling healthy again.  If HRT had not fixed how rotten my system felt all-day, every day, I would have been just as disappointed as you.  I feel very lucky for what HRT has done for me health-wise even though it has will do little for my physical appearance.  This is something you should have expected and been prepared for because HRT frequently doesn't do much in terms of generating physical changes.  It is unusual that you had absolutely no breast development but there are massive numbers of completely flat-chested cis women in this world - if you don't have the genetics it simply ain't gonna happen.  I'll be lucky to hit a full B-cup based on my mother's development.

  I wish there was something I could do to make you feel better but I don't think there's anything I can say to change your mind.  All I cared about in my transition, other than feeling healthier, was to not be 'visually offensive'.  People have said lots of nice things about me but I know I'll never 100% pass in body or face.  That said, I've drawn no negative responses in nearly three years of part-time living.  I have no idea if you are 'visually offending' anyone in public or just purely down on yourself.  If you're unhappy or uncomfortable people can sense this a mile away.  One way or another you've got to find a way to project a sense of personal comfort even if you don't believe it yourself.  Despite your stated "bad luck", in the picture you just posted you look better and more 'blessed' than at least 90% of the transwomen I've seen in my city.  There are so many transwomen that can't even come close to achieving that image and I'm sure they're all upset right now that you don't feel better about yourself.  Further, any cis woman that's ever had the nerve to admit it has been jealous of me being tall and thin, and I'm willing to bet they would be plenty jealous of you to.  Give yourself some credit, most importantly for your naturally-passing face.  That is an extraordinary gift.

[Ruth Ruthless]

The thing is, not everyone feels HRT itself helps their health. Personally, I could at least be having sex with my girlfriend if it were not for how much the HRT is crushing my libido... but I'm sticking to it in the hopes it might do something. If I would know that it will never do anything to make me look more feminine, maybe I'd be better off without HRT.

I made a blog post where you can see how I look without a wig and makeup, and whatever changes the HRT has done.

http://ruthruthless.com/2015/01/30/one-year-pictures/

[ImagineKate]

This has me thinking. Who has better results on HRT? Those who look somewhat feminine before HRT or those who don't? I've heard that the greatest effect is on those who don't.

[katiej]

Yes, in germany you have to be under supervision of doctor. So, of course, we tried everything in that 2 years (i wrote it a few times in other threads) ... my estrogen is at 100pg/ml - we tried to have more but it doesnt work with pills or gel. Since 3 weeks i get injections now. More soon ...

I had a breast augmentation 3 month ago. I have a Cup A now, because my surgeon was doing mistakes. People only see the money. Now ive to go to a second surgery to correct it. I mean: thats my luck - HRT isnt work, surgery isnt work. After more than 2 years i need a little success for me, but all the things goes wrong. My face is the only thing that is passing ... but it already passed before HRT. People always think HRT was making my face able to pass - thats a really big mistake. I already passed before HRT ...

You really need a win, girl!  I hope this next surgery goes better for you.

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that we want our estrogen level to be somewhere just under 200pg/ml.  Cis women fluctuate throughout the menstrual cycle, but the average is just under 200.  So hopefully the injections help.  From what I hear they seem to be better for those of us who haven't had luck with pills or patches.

[galaxy]

I'm now 4 weeks on injections and feel nothing. Same like gel or pills to me. No difference.

We doing so muck work on our bodes, were making surgeries, epilations,excersing, healthier food, we spend much time with makeup and hairstyling  ... and in summery we all keep "men". Thats my summary after 3 years. I will keep a man. Everyday my body remembers me that i'm XY. And you will never lose that situations. 100 situations everyday where you think "oh, i'm a man, no woman" ... that is whats breaking my soul and my dreams.

Yesterday i wanted to buy a dress. The upper body needs Size L, the hips and legs need M - its unpossible to find a dress with the these figur, absolutely unpossbile. And my figur will never fit in a dress. Ive BMI21, no fat belly or something like that - but it doesnt fit.

[Monika the diva]

Yes, in germany you have to be under supervision of doctor. So, of course, we tried everything in that 2 years (i wrote it a few times in other threads) ... my estrogen is at 100pg/ml - we tried to have more but it doesnt work with pills or gel. Since 3 weeks i get injections now. More soon ...

I had a breast augmentation 3 month ago. I have a Cup A now, because my surgeon was doing mistakes. People only see the money. Now ive to go to a second surgery to correct it. I mean: thats my luck - HRT isnt work, surgery isnt work. After more than 2 years i need a little success for me, but all the things goes wrong. My face is the only thing that is passing ... but it already passed before HRT. People always think HRT was making my face able to pass - thats a really big mistake. I already passed before HRT ...

Thats me 2012, 1 year before HRT

Galaxy, I have to tell you, you look beautiful in that picture. I would kill to look like that. I am on HRT and I don't i look as good as you without the HRT. It's unfortunate that HRT didn't work for you but aren't there any other alternatives?

[galaxy]

Theres only one alternative ... and we both know what i'm talking about.
Me only option is to live as a man like years ago and i cant do that.

[Monika the diva]

Please talk to a doctor about this. Could it be possible that your body could be over producing testosterone?  Have you done any blood tests to confirm this? Is it possible to remove your testicles and then restarting HRT? Its just a theory I came up with. Try talking to a doctor about that theory. I don't think it would hurt to ask.

[Ruth Ruthless]

I have also had limited results from hrt and give more credit to what improving my wigs, laser hair removal, nutrition and running have done for me but every day that I put my oestrogel and take my androcur I remember there is the option of doing what I'm doing minus the hormones and surgery and every day I consider that. Either way I'm still a woman, even if only a select few like my girlfriend see it. I figure I am bald so I will never pass 24/7 anyway. But I'm afraid of regretting what might have been if I continued so for now I'm staying on the ride.

[Vanny]

I am 50+.
To be where I am, wishing I was where you are still and would have made a different call.

Looking back with what if's is a reflection that I don't normally entertain.  I believe we are who we are for a reason, ir this conversation, your family, lack there of and or friends ...good or bad! 

You have the chance, as I lack, as many, many, many do here, and exhaust the discovery, explor the journey and act whilst young that we cannot.  Ever.  Think positive.  Think possibilities.  Think discovery of who you are and what you want and that you still have the ability to act and live a full life as you choose to be...  Man or woman is not the point, but rather a full beautiful life as you wish, that many of us out here will only ever dream of.   You are truly fortunate.  Hope you and therapist reach the best possible you...


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