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What do atheists "believe" in ?

Started by Anatta, June 10, 2011, 05:54:18 PM

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Padma

That's an interesting quote. I recently had to tell a pair of Jehovah's Witnesses that I don't believe in a creator god, but that if I did believe in their creator god, I'd feel honour bound to oppose him in any way possible, because from what I've read about him and his behaviour, he's a dangerous and irresponsible psychopath drunk with power (eternal punishment for not believing in him? Exhibit A). Not that in this respect, he's any different from any other creator gods/goddesses that have been come up with in different cultures.
Womandrogyne™
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VeryGnawty

Quote from: Padma on June 12, 2011, 08:46:11 AM
That's an interesting quote.

Yeah, the only defense against that argument is Free Will, which has its own problems.  Without the Free Will argument, it is completely illogical that a perfect being would make an imperfect creation.  That would be like me making a building on a faulty foundation when I have all the knowledge necessary to make a solid foundation before I started construction.  There's no reason to believe that God (being the perfect architect) would intentionally design a building that He knew would collapse.  But that's exactly what believers are saying that He did.

There is just no reason to believe that a perfect being would EVER create an imperfect world for any reason.  The only thing which even comes close to explaining it is Free Will.  But really, Free Will is an extremely weak argument.  Consider for example, God could have put all the peace-loving people on one world, and all the violent people on another.  They would still be free to act as they choose.  They wouldn't be in the same place to experience each other's choices, but they would still be completely free to do as they wish.
"The cake is a lie."
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Anatta

Kia Ora,

::) When it comes down to the nitty gritty of things, as an agnostic atheists "I" believe in live and let live and that a god does "exist" but "only" chooses to dwell within the minds of  theists...And if this god "of the mind" brings one happiness and fulfilment, then it is a worthy and benevolent god...

But if it turns into a rogue god, then it should be euthanised in the most humane way possible, that is dissolved by a good dose of  "reason" –logical thought !

::) Which BTW is on special, only $9.99 at the not for profit [prophet] friendly atheist pharmacy nearest you !  ;) ;D    HURRY FOR THIS IS A LIMITED OFFER !

Happy mindfulness :)

Metta Zenda :)
"The most essential method which includes all other methods is beholding the mind. The mind is the root from which all things grow. If you can understand the mind, everything else is included !"   :icon_yes:
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kate durcal

Shalom Zenda,

Even polytheists ... were in fact tolerated, as Islamic rule spread to most of India. Only the total unbeliever—the agnostic or atheist—was beyond the pale of tolerance ... —Bernard Lewis, Islam in History, 1993

Watch out  >:-)

Kate D
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Pica Pica

This is great and beautiful and clear and rhymes...but be aware it is a tad sweary.

'For the circle may be squared with rising and swelling.' Kit Smart
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Nathan.

I'm an agnostic atheist. I have no belief in god(s) but I accept that I don't know or that it's unknowable either way. The only thing making an atheist an atheist is their lack of belief in god(s). We have no collective beliefs.

I'm a humanist, I reject supernatural explanations and instead accept answers that science can back up. Science doesn't know everything, I believe there is a lot more to discover about ourselves and the rest of the word. "Science knows it doesn't know everything; otherwise, it'd stop." Dara Ó Briain
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Yakshini

I am Athiest by a very dictionary-like definition. I don't believe in G*d or a higher power with influence over what is happening on Earth. I have found that most Athiests are actually irreligious entirely and use Athiesm as a label when it really could be used more as a very large umbrella term. A-without Thiest-God. There are plenty of faiths that do not involve a god or higher power at all, so they could also be considered Athiest. Athieism is not always irreligious. This is not to say I am not a spiritual person, I just do not believe in a higher power.
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RhinoP

I think Atheists believe in "a better world."

To explain, Atheists do not believe in any sort of supernatural, higher, or unseen power that governs actions, afterlives, personalities, souls, or other things. They also do not believe that we have our own souls and that frankly, every thought we have, every brain process we have, and every action on earth is based on the laws of physics. Atheists believe that humanity is no different from the animals we all study; in a way, Atheists tend to study other human beings just like human beings study chimps. There's just no supernatural concepts involved; no one would study a chimp and say "Well, that Chimp likes bananas 'cuz God made it that way." or "That monkey's being sinful because it's touching another male monkey." Atheists also do not try to force religious concepts onto factual and proven properties of physics and psychology just because of a lack of understanding of it; an Atheist will simply either say "Oh, I know that because I saw it in a study." or "I don't know anything about that."

However, because people tend to require a belief in something, largely because of upbringing, Atheists tend to be the ones who put their ambitions and drive to real-world solutions and problems; instead of praying for kids in Africa, an Atheist may be the one who puts all the effort to actually raise charity money instead. Or they may take a very critical view and say "Well, the truth is that I have to care about myself before I help anyone else." Atheistic views, like religious views, can be self-centered or can be very optimistic. Generally, views and motivations of any sort come from personal experience and preference, rather than the direct following of an ideology.
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tekla

One of the best things on the topic I've ever read.

I believe that there is no God. I'm beyond atheism. Atheism is not believing in God. Not believing in God is easy — you can't prove a negative, so there's no work to do. You can't prove that there isn't an elephant inside the trunk of my car. You sure? How about now? Maybe he was just hiding before. Check again. Did I mention that my personal heartfelt definition of the word "elephant" includes mystery, order, goodness, love and a spare tire?

So, anyone with a love for truth outside of herself has to start with no belief in God and then look for evidence of God. She needs to search for some objective evidence of a supernatural power. All the people I write e-mails to often are still stuck at this searching stage. The atheism part is easy.

But, this "This I Believe" thing seems to demand something more personal, some leap of faith that helps one see life's big picture, some rules to live by. So, I'm saying, "This I believe: I believe there is no God."

Having taken that step, it informs every moment of my life. I'm not greedy. I have love, blue skies, rainbows and Hallmark cards, and that has to be enough. It has to be enough, but it's everything in the world and everything in the world is plenty for me. It seems just rude to beg the invisible for more. Just the love of my family that raised me and the family I'm raising now is enough that I don't need heaven. I won the huge genetic lottery and I get joy every day.

Believing there's no God means I can't really be forgiven except by kindness and faulty memories. That's good; it makes me want to be more thoughtful. I have to try to treat people right the first time around.

Believing there's no God stops me from being solipsistic. I can read ideas from all different people from all different cultures. Without God, we can agree on reality, and I can keep learning where I'm wrong. We can all keep adjusting, so we can really communicate. I don't travel in circles where people say, "I have faith, I believe this in my heart and nothing you can say or do can shake my faith." That's just a long-winded religious way to say, "shut up," or another two words that the FCC likes less. But all obscenity is less insulting than, "How I was brought up and my imaginary friend means more to me than anything you can ever say or do." So, believing there is no God lets me be proven wrong and that's always fun. It means I'm learning something.

Believing there is no God means the suffering I've seen in my family, and indeed all the suffering in the world, isn't caused by an omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent force that isn't bothered to help or is just testing us, but rather something we all may be able to help others with in the future. No God means the possibility of less suffering in the future.

Believing there is no God gives me more room for belief in family, people, love, truth, beauty, sex, Jell-O and all the other things I can prove and that make this life the best life I will ever have.




Penn Jillette is the taller, louder half of the magic and comedy act Penn and Teller. He is a research fellow at the Cato Institute and has lectured at Oxford and MIT. Penn has co-authored three best-selling books and is executive producer of the documentary film, "The Aristocrats."

This is part of the This I Believe Project at NPR.
http://thisibelieve.org/essay/34/
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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VeryGnawty

Quote from: Yakshini on June 28, 2011, 09:26:03 PMI have found that most Athiests are actually irreligious entirely and use Athiesm as a label when it really could be used more as a very large umbrella term. A-without Thiest-God.

Everyone is an atheist.  There are thousands of gods out there, but most people only believe in one or less.  Most people are atheists in respect to the vast majority of gods which have been proposed.  Theists are only theists in respect to one or a small group of gods.
"The cake is a lie."
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Anatta

Kia Ora,

::) After reading through all the comments...............

::) What do atheist "believe" in ?  =In general, it would seem the same things theists believe in, but "without" the god element!

::) Now why didn't "I" come up with this in the first place???

Metta Zenda :) 
"The most essential method which includes all other methods is beholding the mind. The mind is the root from which all things grow. If you can understand the mind, everything else is included !"   :icon_yes:
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kate durcal

Dear Zenda,

I a sorry but I beg to disagree, atheist do not bleive in G-d, theist belive in G-d. The whole conveptual and philosophical approach of both groups is diametrically opposed.

Kate D
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Anatta

Quote from: kate durcal on June 29, 2011, 06:39:57 PM
Dear Zenda,

I a sorry but I beg to disagree, atheist do not bleive in G-d, theist belive in G-d. The whole conveptual and philosophical approach of both groups is diametrically opposed.

Kate D

Kia Ora Kate,

::) I was referring to things like the welfare of ones family, education, the basic rights from wrongs, etc, based upon ones feelings/conscience...There are many liberal theists out there[people who "believe" in a god of some kind] whose "faith is "tempered" by reason" and they want what humanistic atheism wants, that is they "believe" in the same things except they also have a "belief" in a personal god...

I work with theists, agnostics and possibly some  "in the closet" atheists too...We all work together for the same cause, to help those less fortunate...That is we "believe" in the same thing...

However, some atheists come to their "no god" conclusion through intellect, and it would seem the bible's contradictory nature is one of atheism's most powerful recruitment tools, properly read it's one of the most potent repellents of organised religion ever conceived...

But I should add, this is because "man" had a hand in selecting and putting these gospels together...


Metta Zenda :)
"The most essential method which includes all other methods is beholding the mind. The mind is the root from which all things grow. If you can understand the mind, everything else is included !"   :icon_yes:
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Sabriel Facrin

One thing I can't help but think about with reading some of these posts, is about theists attributing things to god.  Earlier in the thread theists were called out because they feel genuine good notions are from god setting up things that way instead of them being genuinely good.  Do you suppose that it's possible that the nature of a theist's thinking for this could be that they believe in goodness of people but for some reason deliberately demand a dettachment?  For example, that perhaps such a perfect trait should be involved with god so that it's not dilluted by a bad general nature of people?  Or that by it being from a god, it's so stable and reliable that it is a feature that can never be tarnished in any way?  ---In other words, some variation of that a theist wants to ensure there's a kind of preserving of goodness in a way that can't be twisted or anything.

To draw back into the topic, where does an atheist's feelings fall in all of this thought?  Concerning the purity of goodness, goodness and tainting, and the fact that theists probably are just trying to detach oneself from it in defense of it?  ---And ultimately in part of this, I'm curiously testing at that Kate, like many atheists and theists, feel that they're opposed like that.  Hope that the prodding isn't offensive to you, Kate. x3
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Padma

One thing clear in this thread is that the different people who consider themselves atheist mean a whole range of different things by the term. So in general, any question that asks "what do atheists think about xyz?" can only be answered by saying "well, I think this, because atheism means this to me." We can't speak for other atheists (unless we've asked them first and are quoting them :)).
Womandrogyne™
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tekla

Well that's true enough for lots of religions also.  Yes, there fanatical Christians, Muslims and Jews and Hindus, but on the other hand, most are not fanatics and terrorists.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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Julie Marie

Goodness comes from me.
Kindness comes from me.
Thoughtfulness comes from me.
Love comes from me.
Judgment comes from me.
Meanness comes from me.
Hatred comes from me.

No matter what I think, say or do, it all comes from me and it originates in the thoughts in my brain.  There is no devil making me do bad things, no god making me do good things.  How I see the world, how I respond to the world, all starts and ends in the six inch space between my ears, without any outside influence.

Call that whatever you will, I call it reality.
When you judge others, you do not define them, you define yourself.
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