Big warnings - horribly long Fencesitter posting again. I'm sorry folks, cannot put it in less words.Tippe,
your posting is very good and important. I gave you a "thumbs up" for that.
Just let me ask you a question: which country are you referring to in your description of the "gatekeeper system"? I remember you are from Northern Europe, but I don't remember which country exactly.
And let me add a few remarks as well.
Quote from: Tippe on November 09, 2010, 02:52:09 PM
I think these three posts highlights the problem with the gatekeeping system. It makes people lie! And when people lie they are not in a position to freely reflect upon their choices. That's very well documented as per the quotes attached to this post.
Er, no. Or, at least, not necessarily. If you have to deal with a system which you find stupid and this system requests you to submit yourself to it and "be" and "identify as" a certain kind of person to get what you need or protect your human rights, you may do it and pay "lip service" to it without really buying into their ideology. I know what I'm talking about, I grew up and live in a country which got unified with a Communist country (East/West Germany). My ex-boyfriend was an East German and he told me in detail how they got along with their totalitarian regime, what they really thought about it and when they dared or did not dare to be critical of it. He was 18 when the Berlin Wall crumbled down.
And since I got into the "official ->-bleeped-<- gatekeeping system" here, it reminded me a lot of his experiences. Many East Germans developed something like a "double consciousness" or "double convictions": the 'official one', so that they did not get into trouble with the system, and the 'inofficial one', which was what they really thought. Well, East Germans had to remind themselves what their real conviction and actions were. They had a "second skin" which they had had to develop so that they could respond with the "right" answers spontanoeusly, much like addicted World of Warcraft players being the Level 32 elf in one world and the jobless person in real life. It had become so natural to them that it could sometimes even get difficult to sort their minds out about what they really thought and what was forced upon them by the Communist regime. How do you deal with this "schizophrenic" situation? Resisting to brain-washing without showing that you resisted to it?
That's exactly what happened to me with my gate-keeper as well, after he requested a 24/7 real life test of living in the "new gender role" being addressed as a guy etc. for a year without me passing as long as I had no hormones, as I did not pass before, and "it's absolutely important for diagnosis that you do it at work too so you see if you get along in your new gender role, including being addressed as a male, and it's also very important for diagnosis that you go to male toilets all the time etc."... pffft. I really had to retain myself from laughing out loud there.
And I had no chance to get any hormones subscribed before I did that (or lied to thim that I did that). Transsexuality has nothing to to with this diagnostic test as long as you don't pass. It's a hardship test then, not a test to prove whether you're transsexual or not, or whether you can live as a male or not. And I knew I'd pass after a while on hormones, and yes I do. People tend to not believe me when I tell them I was born female. Well I lied to him and developed a kind of "double consciousness" there. This effect I had was not personally against my gate-keeper, it was just the gatekeeping situation and I couldn't help it, it just happened to me. I wouldn't call that healthy though. Well and I still don't get what diagnostic miracle might come up with me going to the male instead of the female toilets though I've done it for years now. It's just ridiculous. I just went to male loos after I got thrown out of female loos often or looked at there like an intruder, that's all, and during the time when I looked ambiguous, I asked bartenders etc. to tell me where the loo is so in case of doubt, I could always say: "He/She told me...".
A kind of system which is a totalitarian regime, and, to a lesser degree, the "->-bleeped-<- gatekeeping system", produces the following reactions which can be grouped by people:1. sheep. These will follow the system blindly, be naively open about themselves and believe what the docs tell them as "doctors are the experts". And they will follow the doctors' advice on whatever step they take. Docs tend to love that as they often don't like to be in a gatekeeping position, but prefer the "helper" and advisor role. Or they love the power which comes with a "gatekeeper" role and love commanding people. Yeah, and sheeps might believe that the strict standard route is what they have to follow, which may mean they'll get more body modifications than they need to feel okay. Our German SoC don't allow for an orchidectomy without other SRS, e.g., so our public health insurance, which usually sticks to the SoC, usually only pays if you do the whole SRS thing with building a neo-vagina etc. So sheep will do the whole thing. Even if you are willing to pay it yourself, docs in Germany usually won't do an orchi. So you have to find someone abroad or an underground surgeon or do it yourself. Which is all counter-productive.
When everything goes wrong because the RLT without hormones is bull->-bleeped-<- in those cases where you don't pass well before but will pass well after... and the sheep are treated like "men in frocks", the sheep can go whine among their therapists and these can "help" and console them and get the nice feeling that they are useful as "helpers" for poor souls in a bad situation. (If the situation gets too bad, you might get refused HRT though as you don't prove that the 1 year full-time non-hormonal RLT (running around like a guy in a frock) really did you good psychologically. Yes, that's all stupid. We all know that. But it still gets propagated and requested by many many shrinks. Which is why I cannot take them serious - you gotta be pretty clueless about transsexuality to propagate this ->-bleeped-<-. Or you gotta be transphobic or against transitions and not admit it openly, but prefer to see people run into disaster than transition smoothly).
This vulnerability might probably be one of the main reasons why the non-hormonal RLT for
everybody seems to be so important according to so many "specialists" writings, at least in Germany, I think. I'm sure they love to have that role of the "big helper in distress" (distress which they provoked). Yes, it's an unhealthy dynamic, and yes, I think much of it comes from the "helper" role which some specialists love to take up. You needn't help people as much if at least their appearance seems not ridiculous any more, so it seems better to force them to ridicule themselves for a year or so before so they need you to vent and cry on your shoulders, especially if they're just ->-bleeped-<-s anyway - who cares then? Whether the sheep get through with what they tell and finally get the hormones they want after months or years of begging is a question of chance then. Anyway, by then, they may have ruined their job etc. too early, so they have less money to pay epilation. If they get hormones delayed for too long, they might finally change their therapist and become a member of one of the following groups:
2. The Subversives. That's me. These people don't confront the system directly, but try to get through it as well as they can. If they are good liars or the situations forces them to become that, they use the "double consciousness" trick of the East Germans. Often, these people have read up more shrinks' literature than the gatekeepers they deal with, or got second-hand information about it. They know exactly what the state of art is, but have also studied dated shrinks' writings as many of the gatekeepers are not up-to-date.
They know exactly what they can tell and what not, what the differential diagnoses are etc. They want to get the mones, the surgery, and will do anything to obtain them. Or at least the letter for them and then think it over, as free persons. And they know exactly what they have to say where, and what to keep from the shrinks. For them, the whole gate-keeping system is just a nuisance to jump through, pretending they do what the shrinks tell them, like dogs doing tricks to get a piece of sugar. They think it's humiliating but go with the system. They change clothes and put on their make-ups in parking lots before going to the shrinks to prove they do the "real-life test" before hormones. Most of my trans friends fall in this group, as I don't get along with sheep. Many of them impose very harsh delayal times etc. on themselves, even much harsher than our SoC are, but they don't want to get delayals imposed by shrinks.
Or, like in my case at first, as I had not much money to change my wardrobe, I bought two or three sets of distinctly male clothes which I wore for the therapy and bought and used a more and more over the following months. Remember, I had to fake a "real life test without passing" for one year to get the hormones.
My shrink even asked me if I wore male or female underwear. WTF? He was not being naughty, just wanted to know if I really felt male and dressed as a male completely, but honestly, WTF??? Well I had luck as I had always dressed completely male for all meetings just in case, incl. underwear, out of paranoia. So I pulled out a bit of my underwear from under my jeans, a few square centimeters, and told him that was male underwear and that I hoped he did not want me to make a striptease here to see all my underwear, as that would be against my human right for privacy and against therapeutic guidelines as well. Thank you.
And he said, oh god, no, and seemed kinda shocked and offended at my comment. I told him, I did not suspect him to be a peeping tom or a lurker, and my comment might have seemed rude, sure. But his question was rude as well, and I've never been asked about my underwear by anyone but my mom when I was a kid or long-term partners later on. And never asked anybody about their underwear. And it's nobody's business unless they wanna sleep with me. And I'm not in gender therapy here on my own wish, but because the Standards of Care force me to, and it's not a fashion therapy but a gender therapy. So I wanted my private life to be respected. And I did not ask him about his underwear either, so why should he ask me? That worked.
In spite of this, he was also satisfied - yeah, it looked like I lived completely "in my male gender role", and he scribbled down some notes on his blocknote. Like if your underwear mattered for that, or even for your gender identity (unless living your male gender role means you undress or ->-bleeped-<- around all the time). Gosh! Even if I wear fru-fru underwear in satin with flowers everywhere every single day, I'm still a guy, plus (almost) nobody sees it. (Plus male underwear doesn't sit well on me cause I lack a penis.)
They just don't know what to do of us, so they use superficial silly questions and criteria in the waste attempt to get some clues and hints, be it for themselves, be it so that they can write something down in their papers as justification for other "experts" - as gender identity cannot be proved or demonstrated in any way. No, I cannot take such an "expert" seriously, not for differential criteria, not for anything. I did not tell him all that, though. I'm a subversive person, not a rebel. However, it was really a hard struggle for me to keep my personal boundaries, not because of some personal weakness, but because of the situation. The German Standards of Care said that you had to write up the "psycho-sexual development" in detail, so he had to ask me lots of questions about masturbation, phantasies, sexual experiences with other people etc., whether he wanted or not, as it was "important for diagnosis".
And yes, I hated that. Profoundly. I don't mind telling anyone about my kinks, but not if I'm forced to. And, gosh, I had not prepared sex phantasy/activity questions for the diagnosis, so I had to improvise there - FAST!!!. What a stress... I had to invent phantasies and sexual acts which did not jeopardize any of my aims, and sounded like something a prude person might be ashamed of but were like pffft for me. I had to seem somewhat embarrassed about telling about these things, and tell him that reluctantly until he was satisfied with my "no, nothing else I could think of". Which was not difficult to achieve, I just had to remind myself that he was a gatekeeper and so, I felt uncomfortable and defensive automatically. Luckily, some things came to my mind fast.
I invented an interest for food-play. Smearing honey, peanut butter etc. on other people's genitals and licking up that mess. It's absolutely inoffensive and playful (I had tried it, but don't like it and never did), doesn't jeopardize your surgery or make them question your gender, being ashamed of it sounds credible enough, and shrinks can try to fit it into some "oral phase" nevrosis or how they call it if they are really into Freudion esoteric stuff. Though as much as I know, that does not make a good impression on Freudians for whatever reasons, but well... I needed to show enough bad sides of me he could concentrate upon if he was an adherant of these weird theories, and I preferred him to fixate on this bullsh*t than on real issues.
And I faked being horribly ashamed for telling him that I used a strap-on. And tried to seem extremely uneasy talking about it so that mentioning it did not seem like a maneuver for convincing him of my transness. As he knew that I was well aware of his gatekeeper role. However, he asked me in detail who I had used it on, males, females, and how exactly, and did they accept that? (Yeah, we bi folks can be pretty confusing here, but that's not our problem, it's yours, dear shrink. And no, using a strap-on does not necessarily mean anything about your gender identity, but you probably don't know that, dear straight shrink. In my next life, I'll give you a Sex 101 lesson.) I answered honestly, as other than the food thing, this was real. He scribbled something into his notebook, frantically. He went on asking for other practices and phantasies, so I tried to find a third whatever sex thing, and tried to gain time by telling that I did not feel at ease telling about it. Pooh, time ran out... SH*T! What could I tell him?
I don't remember exactly what I told him, but it was something boring like "Hm, I love to do hand-jobs on people and watch them come", after as much ado as possible without -hopefully- it seeming fake. Embarrassing enough for a prude, but inoffensive. He asked for details, I answered, and it was okay. After a while, he saw that I seemed to be sooo prude or embarrassed to talk about sex that he gave up. Or bought into me having no other ideas. Thanks God. Got him around my BDSM-scene, -parties and -escapades past without trouble again, and around lots of other sex phantasies, experiences etc. as well.
I'd maybe have told him that as a therapist, but not as a gatekeeper. And certainly not as long as I did not feel that it could be of any bad for me. Moreover, all that stuff might get into the gatekeeper's report, and from there, into other people's hands who decide about me, judges, health insurance etc. As long as I don't have the information that my judge is heavily into baby-play, dog-play, likes being whipped up or whatever..., I don't see why I should provide them any information of that kind.
There was also something which my shrink insisted on knowing, and I first refused to tell as I said he had asked me enough about sex stuff. He told me it was very important for diagnosis so he really had to know. The question was "Do you see yourself as a guy or as a woman during your sex phantasies?" So I told him what I thought sounded most suitable for an FTM (yes, I always see myself as a male in my phantasies blabla). The really honest answer would have been, e. g.: "I fancy myself as a guy who fancies himself as a woman and finds the idea to be a woman very sexy, and he masturbates as he finds it attractive to imagine he is a woman. And in his phantasies, this guys sees himself as whatever rocks the boat at the moment, with people of whatever sex." That's crazy as sh*t, but it works, and it's just my personal body dysphoria workaround as my body parts don't do it. But I was too afraid to get the hormones or surgery delayed or denied cause of that, as this answer might have been too exotic and "not found yet in literature".
3. The rebels. They can't or don't want to submit themselves to the system and often end up living a hazardous life as a prostitute or whatever rather than submit to the system, or they have enough money backed up to bypass the system, or get their hormones from the black market (which is considered as a kind of sacrilege by our shrinks, even independently from the health hazards it may cause). Or they try to get the mones prescribed without getting labelled as having an "identity disorder" which is almost impossible here etc. These people may set up a blog where they rant about the system, or even get politically active in real life. In Germany, you cannot even get a name change without 2 (!) shrinks' letters, and in practice, that doesn't work for those who can't deal with being officially labelled as having a "gender identity disorder".
However, getting to your aim most easily by lying, therefore leading a "double life" between your real life and the bull->-bleeped-<- you tell your doc, or considering what you need to keep away from the gate-keeper and what you can tell... as a person from the subvertive group... this all sucks up lots of energy, which you might have used better to question yourself instead, or to get along better with your every-day life. It's a bad and counter-productive dynamic anyway. And it poses problems as you have to keep up this Communist-regime-like double consciousness which makes it more difficult for you to come to terms with yourself and know what you REALLY are and REALLY want, and keep this apart from the gatekeepers' expectations.
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But this gatekeeping system is even worse if you come from a background where you couldn't be open about how you really feel, who or what you really are, what you could tell whom in which situation, what you lacked or wanted without fearing harsh repressions for what you told - for things you needed, such as compassion, friends, acceptance, attention, whatever.... Which, I think, is especially difficult and can be even retraumatizing for many trans people - as this is the EXACT situation lots of us went through in childhood, teenage years and often even later. And gets repeated by a gatekeeping-system. I'm exaggerating here, but it's a bit like asking a rape victim to undress themselves in front of a bunch of doctors before they get the okay for trauma therapy.
Quote from: Tippe on November 09, 2010, 02:52:09 PM
I'd much rather remove the diagnosis entirely in favor of counselling and support perhabs in a system where one simply needs to apply twice with a one year lapse in-between: everyone who applies the second time proving that they spent time RLE i.e. through statements from their school or work place should be granted the permit. That's the only way to ensure people are in a position to be truly honest and I believe that's absolutely crucial.
Either that, or the two possibilities as alternative solutions. However, without wanting to boast, I'm very good at counterfeiting and already did it, so I'd love to do that instead of providing a shrink's okay whom I cannot trust - neither on his competence, nor personally. And you can always employ an actor if they need "real people", that's what our folks did in the 60ies. However, I see the flaw here.
Quote from: Tippe on November 09, 2010, 02:52:09 PM
I really, really want to be honest myself. I hate to lie and I think it is stupid in a process such as this, yet when the law specifically requires that I 'feel good' on hormones I cannot afford to tell about side-effects. When I know that only 8% of the applicants get a permit over here I cannot afford anything less than a perfect presentation. When I know that family issues have resulted in persons being rejected just like that how can I possible share the distress of not speeking with my mother for several months with my therapist - if instead of compassion and support - telling her will only result in rejection on top of what rejection I've faced from my mother already? Remember we are speaking about a GIC who have explicitly declared in their official program that their task is to determine whether there is any reason for them to go against sex reassignemt and that they are never able to actively recommend the procedure! Gatekeeping means that the transgender person and the therapist are working in different directions rather than collaborating on making the best decission.
I get exactly what you're talking about, and I'm sorry for your mom and you not having spoken with one another for months. Hope it will get better soon. We have better admission quota, but if you have read up the literature, you know exactly what criteria can hinder them from giving you admission for the SRS, and you don't want too many of them to sum up - officially, for them.
Here in Germany, we have to :
- feel better on the "real-life-test" 24/7 without hormones than before (diagnostic criterium no. 1), but not too good, so that we still suffer "enough" for further steps. This is where many sheep fail, as a RLT before passing usually ends in disaster.
- feel better on hormones than without (diagnostic criterium no. 2), but not too good, otherwise no SRS
- feel that therapy does us very good, it's not a necessary diagnostic criterium but helps much better than bribing with money
- insist strongly on HRT or SRS, sometimes even by blackmailing, or by whining, complaining and claiming a lot, in order to get it approved? But not too much, of course, as that might hint at a borderline personality disorder, which requires more diagnosis and delayal. (All that enforces the prejudice that transsexuals are manipulative and irrational, by the way.)
And all that just to prove to the shrinks that going the transsexual path is right for us.
And if you have an alcohol or drug problem, rather don't tell it to the shrinks, as it will delay SRS.
You probably see the contradictions here. How can therapy do you good if it's all about proving that things work exactly as they're supposed to work according to specific German Standards of Care which were agreed upon without contribution from any trans people (cause, obviously, we're too nuts to be worth being asked for our own affairs) and as far from reality as academics often tend to be? How can you speak about real issues if it may delay your trans treatment? That's what's the same situation in your country and mine.
All that means that we cannot talk openly about issues, if that's not the case for us. Uninformed people will fall into that trap, sheep will be open about themselves as well. Subverters will try to dose exactly what they tell their therapists when and hope they'll get along with it.
It's very frustrating if you know you're sitting in front of an expert and cannot ask him/her openly.Sometimes, here, people get their hormones delayed for years as the therapist is not sure blabla, or he will even put it like a carrot in front of a donkey, promitting them over and over again and delaying them all the time. In the latter case, I think, it's rather the therapist having an issue than the patient, and you should change your therapist. As that turns into a power game over time then, ridden by lust for power or transphobia or both.
Quote from: Tippe on November 09, 2010, 02:52:09 PM
In fact it's quite common over here to act for a couple of years until you're allowed your surgery permit. Only then people open up and start work towards clarification and readiness and many people drop out after they got their permits without using them. Now tell me what's the point in those years of acting then instead of being open to discussions from the beginning. It seems like a complete waste of time. In fact I'd say it's even counter productive, because many transgenders seem to need to let themselves out of a long life of acting (a different gender) to become finally free to be who they are themselves, but instead of supportting that development the gatekeepers just push them into even more acting. Sometimes even having to beat-about-the-bush on intimate issues, because they cannot afford to risk the rejection by being honest.
Yeah, the acting problem... I already referred to it. Can be retraumatizing.
And I can perfectly understand people first trying to get their letters no matter what, even lying, hiding away issues etc., and then once they have them, take their time without pressure and consider on their own if it's right for them. It's just so counter-productive that we have to do it this way and get our information on the "black market" instead of being free to ask the expert right in front of us, who gets paid by the social security system for exactly that. What a waste of money!
Your quotes are very interesting, and I've stored them on my computer. They show that some shrinks are exactly aware of the problem. Once I spoke with one of the leading shrinks of our country, and well... she refers to FTMs as "she" and "women" and to MTFs as "he" and "men" even in her recent publications (2009). So that's no respect at all for us folks from her side, and I won't offer her any in return. I asked her why she addressed me as a male at all if she didn't take that seriously. She answered evadingly. But her approaches to various problems I talked to her about were reinforcing the gatekeeper-system rather than breaking it up.
P.S.
You know what alarms me most? There's been a recent Dutch study, trying to figure out post-SRS regret. The aim of it: to gather information from former studies and therefore, from this statistical evidence, not whom they want to warn from SRS - but whom they want to allow or deny surgery. As, statistically, in these cases, the outcomes are not so goo. Read well through this paternalistic ->-bleeped-<-, keep their criteria in mind and try not to ever admit to any of that. Here it is:
http://igitur-archive.library.uu.nl/dissertations/2002-0808-103443/c5.pdf
http://igitur-archive.library.uu.nl/dissertations/2002-0808-103443/c5.pdf
