androgyny fail

[rite_of_inversion]

Okay...my wife told me I didn't look androgyne in men's shorts , a men's t-shirt, and men's river sandals-not at all, she said.
And I must admit, I got no "sirs" all day at the Renaissance fair..of course I wore a female-looking sun-visor and I...think I want to whack my hair even shorter. Maybe go ahead and order a different hat (I'm very sun-sensitive).
I'm pretty darn flat-chested-with a sports bra and a loose t-shirt, they aren't there if you aren't looking..However, I've got big hips...and I still think letting the bottom half of my legs grow hair just looks gross. Jet black irregular clumps of hair on fish-belly white skin? Yuk!
So do I have to risk heatstroke in the summer to not be I.D ed as either gender? Or just wear giant boots and only get athelete's foot?
My reaction to thinking I didn't pass as androgynous at all? "******, I'm gonna go get some hormones!"  Oh, and not wanting my wife to take my picture, because I didn't look like myself. Being embarrassed. And wanting to starve myself to see if it would make me look less hippy and female.

[ilanthefirst]

Aw, sorry!  It's tough to occupy the in-between because most people will try to put you into one box or the other because they don't know there's anything else.  It's especially tough if you're very obviously female-bodied because being read as a tomboy or butch is still being read as decidedly female, and both types of women are more common than those trying to be read as androgyne. 

Mostly I think it's a crapshoot.  I bought sneakers yesterday and when I walked into the store, not binding, hair tied up high because it was too dirty to tie down low or leave down, not wearing any especially masculine clothes, I was asked by the salespeople if I would be shopping in the men's or women's that day.  It would be much more reassuring if I got that kind of recognition when I was trying hard to be read as androgynous, y'know, but no such luck most of the time!

[Xakkun]

While I don't know what to tell you, I've been told by quite a few people that I look too male to pull the androgynous look... Even with long hair. I don't really know what to do about it. x.x

[ativan]

To quote Pica Pica:

You don't need to look androgynous to be an andro. Thank goodness.

Easy enough to say, I know. Looking and being are intertwined to some/great degree, but neither is necessary for the other.

To be one and not have the other is not failing to be the one.

[LilDoberman]

I think the problem is that most people have no frame of reference (ok, wait, I'm a bi tipsy so I'm going to stop fixing my mistakes, sorry9).  Have no fram e of reference as to what androgynous looks like.  the brain is wired to think 'male or female?' and i thik society also affects it to think a boyish woman is a lesbian and a femine man is either gay or trans.  There's no andro option in our heads, really.  So, I can't really fault your wife for saying that, it's probably exactlyw hat she was thinking.
I have short hair and even if i bind, dont wear makeup and wear mens clothes I still come off to most as butch.  It's ismply what their brains are wired to understand. 
Even as an andro, i never assume others are.  if i see someone who looks like me i assume they're gay, its jsut the way our brains work.
one of these days i'm going to get up the balls to ask someone if they're and.  We need a sign, like a color or triangle or ring or somethign LOL.
So, hugs and all that, and don't take it too hard.  Be yourself and let things fall where they may.

[ativan]

I'm starting to think that the odds are more in favor of them being Androgyne, they may be just reacting as they think society dictates they should. Who knows?

[Pica Pica]

Does anyone know what an androgyne is supposed to look like? Do we even know what one is supposed to look like? And... if we don't, does anyone else not connected with this stuff, who has never even heard the term know what an androgyne is supposed to look like?

[ativan]

There does seem to be a few here that are overly consumed with the idea that they need to look androgynous to confirm to others that they are indeed Androgyne.

And I've noted a few that consider that they are Androgyne because the are able to look androgynous.

Am I alone in thinking that androgynous is a fashion statement?  That Androgyne is about gender?

I have noticed the term being used loosley and inaccurately in some publications and articles on the web. The definitions of either being unclear and overlapping in the statements being used. I've noticed that here lately, also.

Pica Pica's questions are begging to be discussed, and I would be interested in the responses. Especially with some of the concerns that have been shown about looking androgynous enough recently.


Pica, your new avatar pic indeed proves that you are one of the worlds beautiful people 

[LilDoberman]

I think it's perfectly reasonable for some androgynes to want to look androgynous.  In my mind, it sort of goes hand in hand in many respects.  No one would question an ftm wearing mens clothes, or a mtf wearing womens, right?  They want their outward appearance and the perception by others to match how they inwardly feel.   I think many androgynes want others to know they're not comfortable with their bigender label and express that in many ways.   People like to feel comfortable in their clothes, it's as simple as that.

I'm not saying it's a requirement to look androgynous or anything, but I certainly don't see a conflict there.  I agree with Ativan that looking androgynous does not necessarily equal being androgyne.  However, if one agrees with a spectrum of gender (of some sort) I don't think it's fair of anyone to decide if a person is 'androgyne enough' to appear (or want to appear) androgynous.

[Kinkly]

There are many ways to look like you don't fit as either binary gender.  If you just do what feels right and you get comments then you are passing (as different from norm).  That is as close as a definition on what an androgyne looks like as far as I can tell.

[Sean]

Just wanted to add: your wife is probably not capable of seeing how other people read you.

Those closest to us see us in a different way, based on their experiences with us and constant contact. Sometimes that means seeing us as the gender we've been expressing, sometimes it's a gender neutral thing (seeing you just as YOU, not a gender).

[Pica Pica]

  No one would question an ftm wearing mens clothes, or a mtf wearing womens, right?

True, but who's clothes would an androgyne wear?

[Pica Pica]

Pica, your new avatar pic indeed proves that you are one of the worlds beautiful people 

Most kind of you.

[LilDoberman]

True, but who's clothes would an androgyne wear?

I generally wear mine    but my partner being a foot taller than me has something to do with that...    The answer is of course 'whatever they want'. 

Personally I mix and match womens and mens clothes depending on how I feel and what I'm doing.   I have short hair, ear piercings and wear makeup and a binder.   It's just how I'm comfortable and has changed a bit over the years and I"m sure will change again.