Shoving It Down Their Throat

[Julie Marie]

Have you ever wondered if you were doing that?  Shoving who you are, your choices, etc. down the throats of the people you love?  Should they have the option of what loved ones inject into their lives?  Or should we just look at the effect we have on them as being the same as nature?  You can't control it so you have to live with it.

I just read the essay Chaunte's 5th grade son wrote.  I got all choked up as I thought about my youngest son and how he feels he's lost his dad.  Although my son is now 21, he found out about me when he was 18.  He still needed a father figure he could look up to then, probably still does now.  My dad died when I was 45 and I still needed him then.

So I started thinking about how I have gone about coming out and telling my family I need to transition.  It certainly could have been done better.  On a scale of 1 to 10 I probably scored a 1.  But I can't change the past.  I'll have to live with it.

When I tried to see things from their perspective I wondered if I really gave them enough time.  Did I present it well or did I come across as "here it is, take it or leave it"?  If my dad decided to transition I know I would have taken it pretty hard, even when seeing it through the eyes of a transsexual, me.  I really needed him to be my dad.  Do my kids feel the same way?

Looking back at what my state of mind was then I know transitioning was the right decision.  I was miserable.  I was depressed.  I was drinking a lot.  I had lost the will to live.  I couldn't be a good father to them anymore.  The battle inside me was now raging and it was consuming me.  It was either transition or die.

But is that what my kids see?  Is that what my brother and sisters see?  Or do they see me as being selfish?  I don't know.  To help them understand I wrote a story I titled "A Soldier Retires".  I thought it pretty well depicted what my life was like and that non-TSs could understand the hell I was living.  The feedback I got pretty much let me know I got the message across.  My kids never responded.  My sons won't talk to me and my daughter doesn't want to talk about it so I don't know how they feel.

When I was at my sister's for T-Giving my brother-in-law asked me what losses I have a hard time living with.  I said just my kids.  He asked, "You can live with the rest?"  Yeah, but my kids, that really hurts.  

Julie

[Melissa]

Looking back at what my state of mind was then I know transitioning was the right decision.  I was miserable.  I was depressed.  I was drinking a lot.  I had lost the will to live.  I couldn't be a good father to them anymore.  The battle inside me was now raging and it was consuming me.  It was either transition or die.

But is that what my kids see?  Is that what my brother and sisters see?  Or do they see me as being selfish?  I don't know.

Yeah, same here for me too.  I use that to describe it to people and I think you are right about others probably not seeing it the same way, but I think some do.

To help them understand I wrote a story I titled "A Soldier Retires".  I thought it pretty well depicted what my life was like and that non-TSs could understand the hell I was living.  The feedback I got pretty much let me know I got the message across.  

Yeah, that was a good story.  I saved a copy of it to my computer when you posted it a while back.

When I was at my sister's for T-Giving my brother-in-law asked me what losses I have a hard time living with.  I said just my kids.  He asked, "You can live with the rest?"  Yeah, but my kids, that really hurts.  

Aww, I'm really sorry about that.  I have come to the conclusion that I am still a person and this person can still teach my kids good values.  I intend to stay in their lives and raise them how I would have raised them before, except I'll be in a much better position to parent them now than I was before.

Melissa

[SusanKay140]

Julie,

 

I feel that most inter-personal problems stem from CSD, communication skill deficit, not just the giver but also the receiver.  We don't explain things well, or at a "good" time, and about a subject that is almost always not going to be well received.  These stack the deck considerably just going in.  

But ... this conversation has to occur.  If it is being "shoved down their throats" as you say, always remember how much it has been shoved down yours!  Even many serious opponents of gender identity and homosexuality challenged   people no longer buy into the "lifestyle choice" nonsense.  Hardly any of us are so totally pathologically masochistic to choose this path of pain.

I take hope in the stories from those that have been able to work through this revelation and continue, even improve the relationship with family and friends.  All we can do is work on it, don't overly react back and be open to them.  Easily said - hardly easy.  

Susan Kay

[cindianna_jones]

Julie, you will be viewed as selfish... .for you have given up so much to do what YOU want.  Your son has lost his dad for only as long as you are not in his life.  And so it goes with the rest of your family. There is much pain in all of this.  I do understand how lost and lonely it can feel to lose your family.

I know you'll be fine.   I know that you'll reforge your relationships.  It may take some time and effort.  But they'll get to know you again.  As Jan used to say "it is what it is".  Welcome to life.

Cindi

[HelenW]

I'm really not sure what you mean by "shoving it down their throats,"  Julie.  I mean, is that what one of your family members said?  I wonder what you mean because I'm not sure what alternative you could have followed, giving the things you've told us you were experiencing.  It may have felt to some as if they were being forced into something and maybe they feel that way simply as a function of their disapproval?  It may be that you could have given them all the time in the world, and it's concommitent suffering on your part, and they would still have felt the same way.

I have been holding myself back and not moving as fast as I want for my spouse's sake and it drives me a little nuts sometimes.  But she has shown progress in accepting me and what I'm going through even though I came out to her in a very abrupt and unthinking way so I feel it's justified.  What's done is done and I can't put the toothpaste back in the tube, so to speak, so all I can do is work from here.

hugs & smiles
helen

[brina]

Hiee Julie,

  You made a comment that bothered me somewhat. Something about had your dad been TS and transitioned how you would still have needed a dad even being T yourself. I think that merits some retorspection on your part for some time. It just does not make any sense to me.

Byee,
  Brina

[Ricki]

Hi Jules i know what you meant in some respect like Melissa said too i agree.
My thinking was at a point where i guess in some repsects i was just shovelling it people or my family and worse the expectation i had was set waaay to high and then my disappointment was even worse....
I do not do that now, worse I'm secretive and keep it mainly hidden looking for a happier medium down the road here and the site is helping me everyday that i read a post so that is good.
But its a hard thing to going through it is not the same as reflecting back on it.  Like they say Hind-sight is not 20-20..
So those experiences and hind-sight knowledge help us hopefully down the raod as we cross more bridges...
Lotsa love

ricki

[Nero]

Hi Julie.
There was a time many years ago that I wrote in my journal "We will take this secret to the grave."
But earlier this year, I realized that whether I transitioned or not, I didn't want to die without those I love most knowing who I really was.
I don't have children, so I can't speak from the point of view of a parent. Yes, at my age, I still need my father, and if my father turned out to be TS, that would be quite a shock as he is a very 'manly' man, but he would still be the same person and as long as he treated me the same, we'd have the same relationship and I wouldn't feel as though I lost him. But this is coming from one who's never been in those shoes of having a TS parent, so all I can say is how I think I'd feel. One thing I do know is that if my father were TS, I'd much rather he 'come out' and transition than harbour a painful secret like this.
 

[Gill]

Hi Julie:

This is so hard when it comes to the kids.  My family though I can take their loss, but my daughter really was doing me in.  In a recent conversation with a psychologist friend she gave us the best bit of advice I have ever heard.  Never, ever slam the door shut even if they piss you off.  Always keep the door open because there will be a time when they will want to step through it and back into your life.  It just takes time, it may not be tomorrow, next month or even next year.  It's hard for the kids as there is no way they can walk away from the biological ties that bind you together whereas a spouse can get a divorce and walk away.

So through all of this "never slam that door shut" no matter what.

Gill

[Ricki]

That's very good advice Gill....
Thanks
ricki

[Casey]

Have you ever wondered if you were doing that?  Shoving who you are, your choices, etc. down the throats of the people you love?  Should they have the option of what loved ones inject into their lives?  Or should we just look at the effect we have on them as being the same as nature?  You can't control it so you have to live with it.

I'm not TS but I understand what you're talking about. I see this not as shoving anything down their throats or being cavalier about coming out. It's all about respect. You respect your family enough to be honest with them about who you are and what you're going through. You respect them enough to not decide for them what they can and can't handle. And you repect them enough to let them decide what to do next. If you come from a place of respect then you don't have anything to feel bad about.

[ssindysmith]

I am being such a bad girl today.... when I read the subject line I only thought of one thing    But after reading I have to disagree (sorry) we are who we are, just because we are transitioning has no bearing, some people just come on strong if they are transitioning or not, most people that come on strong have no clue about what a transition is other than maybe from football season to basketball season LOL but no I am being me and if I need to correct someones pronoun usage or whatever from time to time I don't see that has shoving down their throat (insert girly giggle )

[Genevieve]

Dearest Julie,

I know what you are facing and how you feel.

Although I am at the very begining of my transition and have not come out to him, I worry so much what my son is going to think of his dad becoming a woman. I know he will go through periods where he needs a father figure. I had so wanted to be a man for him. But being what my father wanted me to be and what society defines in it's rigid structure as being a man was going to kill me. I know that my killing myself would have done so much more damage to him than my transition will.

I believe, with regard to the society we live in and the majority of the people that will think ill of us and our lives, we deserve to shove some of what we have gone through back at them. With regard to our family, I believe we need to be as careful and as loving to them as we can. Yes they are stuck with our decisions, and we do need to be what and who we are, but we need to make our changes with grace and love where they are concerned.

It's been said elsewhere here in Susan's that you must be prepared to loose everything when you make this transition. I hope and pray this will not be the case for me but I am prepared for it.

In your case, all I can say is that you need to let them know that, regardless of their decision on how to deal with you, you love them deeply and that you will always be there for them when they need you. Please don't assume they know that. Find ways to tell them you love them, allow them to vent some of their feelings about your decisions but let it go in one ear and out the other. Sooner or later they may come around and see you for the better person you have become.

My plan with my dad is this....I'll tell him when I'm ready. He'll be angry at me and may be angry at me for the rest of his life. I will visit him and my mother often and through all of his negative remarks that I know he'll make for a while, each time I'll tell him that I still love him and that he still means the world to me. My mom is going to work on him when I'm not there. But I feel that I will be doing everything that I can. After all of that it will be his decision and I need to live with that, but I never have to give up on him or my love for him.

I know all of this may be no help to you. I do want you to know that I wish you all of the best though and that I believe that loved ones will come around. A lifetime is too long a time to alienate one's self from a person that loves them in my opinion. I believe they will come around. I believe my father and son will come around too, at least that is one of my deepest desires, nearly as deep as my need to become a woman.

Thank you,

Genevieve

[Ricki]

Tink i reread some of this thread and decided i liked this little bit you stated!
Very nice...

When they see you laugh, when they notice the brightness in your eyes, the magical aura that ovewhelms you

Sort of like if people see that you have zen or something?
Genny,
I liked your post very inpsirational!
Ricki

[Elizabeth]

Julie,

Are you saying it was a choice you made? You simply chose to be transsexual and harm your kids? You didn't have to, but you did? There is a big difference between making a choice and telling people how it is. When I told my kids I said "This sucks. Your dad is a transsexual. I know it would have been much better had I not been, but I am."

It is something they had to deal with. Just as you had to deal with your dad passing away. It sucked and it would have better had that not happened, but it did. I told them that "X" percentage of the population are transsexual, and I was one of them. But "X" percentage of the population are poor, or have genetic illnesses, or get cancer or die in car crashes or a whole host of other things.

I reminded them that unlike my parents, thier parents loved them. They were not physically or emotionally abused. We were not poor. We did not live in Ethiopia. We lived in a rich country.

Telling people how it is, is not mean. It's like saying that when cops have to tell people thier loved ones were killed, they are jamming it down thier throats, because they had no time to deal with it and accept it. Life is tough. Everything is not always easy.

I don't beleive in the word selfishness. It is a trick word. Everyone is entited to look out for their own self interest. Even parents. No one else is going to do it, if they were, you would already be transitioned. Everyone would realize it was the best thing for you and made it happen. They didn't because they were too busy figuring out what was best for them.

When was the last time you heard anyone say, "Well, I think this is what is best for Julie, so lets all agree to that"? Don't you think that is selfish of them to put thier interests before yours?

Sorry, I can't buy into the selfish argument. I am no use to my kids dead. I am no use to my kids depressed and withdrawn. I am no use to my kids if I feel I am sacrificing the only existence I have, for no reason. No one directly benifits from me not transitioning. We are talking about hurt feelings here. If anyone's feelings are hurt by my transitioning, that is just too bad.

Julie, Stop beating yourself up over this. It is up to each person to find happiness. You included.

Love always,
Elizabeth

[Genevieve]

Wow Elizabeth!

I'm so inspired by your post!

Thank you,

Genevieve